No crop on 4K coming in next APS-C DSLR [CR1]

siegsAR

EOS RP
Mar 5, 2013
216
7
Auckland
No crop 4K30 is not so much to ask. BUT I am waiting for this on the EOS M mount.
If this 90D rumors turn out to be true I might go back shooting w/ a DSLR, else I'm jumping fences.
 

Pape

EOS 7D MK II
Dec 31, 2018
427
266
i believe they do both 90D and M5ii and one unknown R
if using same sensor ,could have same specs.
 
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CanoKnight

EOS 80D
Jul 7, 2014
118
70
Wow. I was initially tempted to write something sarcastic, but if this is true (4k/60, 1080/>=120, no crop of the 1.6x) I can see myself doing the unthinkable. I might actually (gasp) buy another Canon camera ! As much as I love my incredible Panasonic S1 for video, it's AF is not the best and this could be a great companion / compliment to it for all things motion. But I am not holding out hope. I mean they have their precious little cine EOS to protect, right ?
 

koenkooi

EOS 7D MK II
Feb 25, 2015
514
304
I personally dont care about crop mode in video as a macro shooter its a good thing for me as long as the video doesnt have too much rolling shutter its perfectly fine.
On the M50 with the 28mm macro DPAF does a very nice job on autofocus in HD, so I hope that will keep an option to crop it and allow DPAF.
 
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hollybush

EOS M50
Feb 1, 2012
43
19
What's the difference, at least in practice, between binning and downsampling?
Both lineskipping and binning are objectively incorrect designs because they change the sampling from what the antialiasing filter was designed for.

The purpose of the antialiasing filter is to spread light across adjacent pixels so that the camera does not see things that are not there. It has to be designed for that particular pixel pitch (so that it blurs into the next pixel, and not the next 2). When you introduce line skipping with video the antialiasing filter that was there for stills doesn't work. Binning is no better regarding aliasing, because it's still sampling at the same lower spatial frequency as lineskipping; its only advantage over lineskipping is lower noise.

With downsampling, the camera is taking the antialiased data and then interpolating between those values to find the correct value.

If a camera uses lineskipping, one of two things is true: (i) the engineers did not understand sampling theory, or (ii) the maker did not want to spend the money to put a decent processor in the camera. Either way, I wouldn't buy such a camera. If Sony could put true downsampling in the original RX10, it should be in a 2019 Canon 7D successor.
 

tron

EOS 5D SR
Nov 8, 2011
4,076
364
If you want a crop mode, look to the T3i. It was the first to do it with center crop 1080 and even center crop 480.
I was half-joking but on the serious side my 5DIV does crop at 4K so there is that if it is needed. It would be nice to have it as an option but I have no experience in video. I only do photos but for a 5 min video with tripod and 7DII and 500II on it (Great crested grebes building their nest).
 
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ozturert

EOS T7i
Jan 16, 2019
99
81
Rolling shutter is to be quite bad, then. Everyone is after no-crop 4K but those cameras have quite bad rolling shutter (like Sony A6X00 series).
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
1,105
543
The 6D and 5D lines demise are both up for debate as well. I'm starting to wonder if there will be a new lower end model which will supersede the 5D3 specs anytime soon. A 6D3 could easily but that's hardly in the near future, let alone future. It's a curious time for the various Canon prosumer models.
The 6D Mark II already more or less matches the 5D Mark III in terms of specs other than 1/4000 vs. 1/8000 shortest Tv and 1/180 vs. 1/200 X-sync.
 

padam

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 26, 2015
604
219
Rolling shutter is to be quite bad, then. Everyone is after no-crop 4K but those cameras have quite bad rolling shutter (like Sony A6X00 series).
If it is not downsampled from 32MP (cropped to 16:9) then it might remain acceptable and this is a new generation sensor with faster readout, Sony still uses old sensors in their APS-C cameras (X-T3 or X-T30 use a new one, so rolling shutter is less)
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
1,105
543
Did the 80d just grossly outsell the 7d line?
It probably has lately.

The 7D Mark II was released in late 2014 and those who wanted one have either long since bought them or have been waiting for the last two years to see what the replacement will look like. Or bought a Nikon D500.

The 80D was released in 2016 so it's two years "younger" and waiting to see what would replace it probably only started affecting sales numbers in the past few months.

There's also the perception that the 80D has a "better" sensor because it has more dynamic range at low ISO and too many reviewers are obsessed with maximum DR, which only happens for any camera at base ISO. Same thing with DxO Mark, which seems to place a lot more weight on DR at base ISO than on signal to noise ratio for high ISO/low light performance for their overall composite scores.

At ISO 1600 and ISO 3200, where many 7D Mark II users live if they shoot night/indoor sports, the 7D Mark II actually slightly outperforms the 80D in terms of DR and SNR.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
1,105
543
Labelling it a 90D sounds very uninspiring. If its just a badge I'd have thought 7DIII would be a more attractive moniker. Could be the same camera either way.
10FPS would be a huge disappointment to me. Even 11FPS would show some progress.
The big weak point for me on the 7DII was it's ISO performance.
It wasn't great when it came out and is pretty disappointing at this stage.
It will be interesting to see what progress Canon have made in the mean time.
The 7DII focusing I think is still very respectable.
It would be great if they could bring some intelligence to it in terms of staying locked onto a subject (BIF etc)

The 7D Mark II has slightly better DR and SNR than the 80D at ISO 1600 and ISO 3200. It's only at low ISO that the 80D has better DR. No APS-C sensor is going to match a FF sensor from the same generation of technology for high ISO/low light performance.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
1,105
543
Rumored specs also have Canon doing 4k/60 in a DSLR for the first time since the 1DXII, which just 100% isnt happening...especially since that only does it with a 1.3 crop. Canon segments products in a way that a camera 1/4 the price wont have some major improvement randomly.
I imagine so. As the 60D probably outsold the original 7D as well. The 7D line is great for those who need the ruggedness or speed...but for the vast majority of users things like the flip out screen and 40% price savings make the XXD line make more sense. And just like I imagine the 6DII tanked in comaprison to the 6D...the 7DII didnt really improve anything on the sensor side. Wasnt til the 80D that Canon finally came to modernity on that front.

And I imagine Canon would rather see 7D users end up in the 1D line instead.
The sensor in my 7D Mark II is noticeably better than the sensor in my 7D at anything above ISO 800. It's not close.

The 80D sensor has better DR at low ISO, but the sensor in the 7D Mark II is slightly better at ISO 1600 and ISO 3200 and up where most sports shooters live. The 7D is about the same in terms of DR at ISO 100-400, but falls away at ISO 1600 and higher, just as the 80D does.

185042




When differences in actual ISO for the same ISO settings are accounted for, the 7D Mark II has better SNR than the 80D which has slightly better or equal SNR than the 7D across the entire ISO range:

185043
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
1,105
543

espressino

sigh.
Feb 26, 2018
29
9
I think Canon would be better off retaining the 7D branding and announce the end of the X0D line. If they feel the need to fill the segment below that, create something like a "Rebel Pro." As has been discussed before, the 7D market is more likely to invest more in lenses and other goodies than lower end camera buyers.
Didn't they introduce that Rebel Pro with the 77D/800D? Forum users and reviewers dismissed it, but it seems to be quite popular.
 

BillB

EOS 6D MK II
May 11, 2017
1,153
390
If the 90D specs are true, whoever does product segmentation at Canon needs to have cardiac function tests daily and be placed on suicide watch until product release. Dual Digic 8, dual card slots, eye detect AF in live view, no crop 4k... All this would be in direct competition with flagship cameras. It simply goes against how Canon has done business since the 5D Mark II. We are much more likely to be disappointed than not. That said, if you've been considering an upgrade, definitely worth waiting to see what happens.
Canon has often introduced features below the flagship level. In the Canon world new features have often trickled up as well as trickled down. Canon may or may not have a product segmentation strategy, but it doesn't always apply to how Canon introduces new features in its camera line.
 
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Quarkcharmed

EOS 5DMkIV
Feb 14, 2018
542
411
Australia
www.michaelborisenko.com
Canon has often introduced features below the flagship level. In the Canon world new features have often trickled up as well as trickled down. Canon may or may not have a product segmentation strategy, but it doesn't always apply to how Canon introduces new features in its camera line.
So in a few words, we know nothing and Canon can do basically anything.
 
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