Not to be mean... but how does this person/group get work?

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Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
Mar 25, 2011
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When a public advertisement is posted, its fair game for comments. There are lots of photographers starting up with little knowledge about photography. They advertise on Craigslist, and get few customers. Some of them are talented, some are ...
 

jdramirez

EOS 5D MK IV
May 31, 2011
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It is part of an advertisement for services... So I think it is fair game... If it was a random person that I had access to their image... Then I would concur with your position.

dak723 said:
OP - Have you informed the photographer that you are critiquing their photos and linking their website so that others can critique their photos? Have you given them a chance to respond to your criticisms?

Unless they are a member here and have asked for advice - this sort of unsolicited critiquing of someone else's work seem totally inappropriate to me.

Would you like it if someone - without your knowledge - was criticizing your photographic skills and asking others to critique your work on the internet (or elsewhere). I know I wouldn't.
 

jdramirez

EOS 5D MK IV
May 31, 2011
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I think what goes through my brain when my finger is on the shutter is what not to do more so than what to do... Sometimes I take the Hippocratic oath strategy... First do no harm... Making the images less interesting, but with a higher hit rate.

drmikeinpdx said:
Personally, I think that looking at the work of other photographers is an important part of my artistic and professional development.

Obviously, I get good ideas from photographers who are better than I am.

But also important is what I learn from looking at photos that are poorly done, at least to my eyes. It teaches me what to avoid. I'm sure my brain has a long list of photo problems to watch out for subconsciously during a shoot.
 

jdramirez

EOS 5D MK IV
May 31, 2011
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To answer your question... YEAH... cause if I strike out most of the night, I know I'm still getting laid at the end of it.

takesome1 said:
Do you look for someone fatter and uglier than you when you go out clubbing so you look better by comparison?

What is the point of critiquing random photographers other than to demonstrate you think you have a superior skill set. It is petty.
 

Eldar

EOS 5D MK IV
Jan 14, 2013
3,247
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www.flickr.com
If this was someone´s Flikr account, I fully agree that it would be inappropriate. But this is someone who is selling his/her services openly and these are the bragging images. Given that, I have no problem with the starting point for the thread.

I wonder though, if the photographer has his/her customers acceptance for publishing all these images ..
 

jdramirez

EOS 5D MK IV
May 31, 2011
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And to reframe the question in other lines of work...

This surgeon routinely leaves sponges in his patients and it is on his linked in profile...

This mechanics advertisement says... If we don't fix your transmission right... Maybe you should go to a dealer (after you pay).

If you don't mind salmonella poisoning, come on down to roscoe's not thoroughly cooked chicken sandwiches.
 

takesome1

EOS 5Ds R II
Aug 23, 2013
1,474
101
Eldar said:
If this was someone´s Flikr account, I fully agree that it would be inappropriate. But this is someone who is selling his/her services openly and these are the bragging images. Given that, I have no problem with the starting point for the thread.

I wonder though, if the photographer has his/her customers acceptance for publishing all these images ..
I think you are making an assumption that this guy is selling services as a wedding photographer.
Maybe he is, maybe he posted the pictures on photo-bucket so friends could print it.
 

takesome1

EOS 5Ds R II
Aug 23, 2013
1,474
101
I think this thread should be deleted since the same link posted at the start will lead you to a photo of a customs receipt that gives you this guys personal home address.
 

takesome1

EOS 5Ds R II
Aug 23, 2013
1,474
101
From this guys other website;
Not hard to find since it is laid out.

In addition to using photography in my job as Director of Media Services at Shippensburg University, I am an avid amateur photographer. I also am a whitewater canoeist, a pocketknife collector, and occasionally restore British cars. I've had this 66' Jaguar E-type since 1972.


As the Director of Media Services at Shippensburg University in Shippensburg, PA, I am responsible for the video, graphic, and photographic services for classroom instruction

"Avid Amateur" doesn't sound like a pro to me.
 

jdramirez

EOS 5D MK IV
May 31, 2011
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I suppose I may not have been entirely clear in the original post, but it is a guy/gal offering wedding photography services. It is a craigslist ad, and the link was posted on the ad. The photog is demonstrating these photos as an example of their work. I can post the ad... I think they mention that they have 25 years of experience which seems laughable.

takesome1 said:
Eldar said:
If this was someone´s Flikr account, I fully agree that it would be inappropriate. But this is someone who is selling his/her services openly and these are the bragging images. Given that, I have no problem with the starting point for the thread.

I wonder though, if the photographer has his/her customers acceptance for publishing all these images ..
I think you are making an assumption that this guy is selling services as a wedding photographer.
Maybe he is, maybe he posted the pictures on photo-bucket so friends could print it.
 

jdramirez

EOS 5D MK IV
May 31, 2011
2,944
0
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Why don't I just delete the link... Ya know... Baby and bathwater.

takesome1 said:
I think this thread should be deleted since the same link posted at the start will lead you to a photo of a customs receipt that gives you this guys personal home address.
 

jdramirez

EOS 5D MK IV
May 31, 2011
2,944
0
42
That's not a bad idea. I think we have mostly critiqued or complained about the end product, so I don't think we were personal. I'll send him an email after work and I'll cc this board.

takesome1 said:
Here is his email if you would like to let him defend himself
 

jdramirez

EOS 5D MK IV
May 31, 2011
2,944
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Here is a copy of the email I sent.

Michael,

I'm a local photographer with some proficient skills. Last night I came across your advertisement for wedding photography on Craigslist (in the photography gear section). I perused your images/catalog with the link provided and I wasn't impressed.

My initial response wasn't how could you sell these services, but rather who would look at these sample images and as a consequence, desire to hire you. I realize the wording is quite harsh, but I don't write to be mean. Rather I write to explain that I linked the images on a forum for discussion.

I saw technically lacking in the images in regards to framing, lighting, focusing, etc. The consensus of many was that there are many offerings available and your services may be at the low end of the marketplace.

I won't hide that I have been a vocal critic of the sample images. Some in the thread thought it was not fair to criticize the work presented without allowing you the opportunity to voice a counter argument.

The link has since been redacted as root folders lead to personal information which need not be disseminated. If you would like to participate in this frank and admittedly uncomplementary discussion, we would welcome your voice and perspective.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=25994.0

-Joe D.
 

Besisika

How can you stand out, if you do like evrybdy else
Mar 25, 2014
634
21
Montreal
takesome1 said:
Fair enough.

If he reads it, it might be an interesting start to his weekend.
He/she/they would be a welcome guest, at least in my mind. Those years of experience has a lot to share.
I expect a good business strategy or very successful human approach (or something else).
Please convince him nicely to share.
We could exchange photography knowledge for his business approach.
I saw someone's work on Flickr once, similar quality, and has been posting since 2000 (if memory serves me well).
 

JClark

EOS T7i
Aug 4, 2013
64
0
jdramirez said:
Here is a copy of the email I sent.

Michael,

I'm a local photographer with some proficient skills. Last night I came across your advertisement for wedding photography on Craigslist (in the photography gear section). I perused your images/catalog with the link provided and I wasn't impressed.

My initial response wasn't how could you sell these services, but rather who would look at these sample images and as a consequence, desire to hire you. I realize the wording is quite harsh, but I don't write to be mean. Rather I write to explain that I linked the images on a forum for discussion.

I saw technically lacking in the images in regards to framing, lighting, focusing, etc. The consensus of many was that there are many offerings available and your services may be at the low end of the marketplace.

I won't hide that I have been a vocal critic of the sample images. Some in the thread thought it was not fair to criticize the work presented without allowing you the opportunity to voice a counter argument.

The link has since been redacted as root folders lead to personal information which need not be disseminated. If you would like to participate in this frank and admittedly uncomplementary discussion, we would welcome your voice and perspective.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=25994.0

-Joe D.
That's just... wow. I really can't imagine my reaction if some random stranger sent me that, unsolicited, for apparently no reason whatsoever. Jeebus.
 

PureClassA

Canon since age 5. The A1
Aug 15, 2014
1,611
181
Mandeville, LA
Shields-Photography.com
Wow. Well I tip my hat to your being honest enough in owning your position to this this guy in an open invitation. Don't see that too often these days.

Obviously I've made it clear previously (as have others) I agree with you. It's not some random Joe posting iphone pics on facebook. If he's actually advertising himself as someone for hire, he is by definition a professional, albeit perhaps not a very good one. He has opened himself fairly to critique, just as any of us have who have our real identities/websites visible on our CR profiles.

I know I'm not near the best thing out there, but I also know I wouldn't post nothing but a bunch of generically shot pictures I could have taken with my wife's $150 Fuji Point & Shoot and call it my "sample of work".

If you're going to hold yourself out for hire in such an artistic and technical business, you should have enough sense to try and learn SOMETHING about your trade before getting to this point.
 

jdramirez

EOS 5D MK IV
May 31, 2011
2,944
0
42
I didn't want to be sugar and honey in my email and a complete asshat on here. So I kept the tone consistent. Though I could entirely see how getting an email like that out of the blue would be... Let's just say a different experience.

JClark said:
jdramirez said:
Here is a copy of the email I sent.

Michael,

I'm a local photographer with some proficient skills. Last night I came across your advertisement for wedding photography on Craigslist (in the photography gear section). I perused your images/catalog with the link provided and I wasn't impressed.

My initial response wasn't how could you sell these services, but rather who would look at these sample images and as a consequence, desire to hire you. I realize the wording is quite harsh, but I don't write to be mean. Rather I write to explain that I linked the images on a forum for discussion.

I saw technically lacking in the images in regards to framing, lighting, focusing, etc. The consensus of many was that there are many offerings available and your services may be at the low end of the marketplace.

I won't hide that I have been a vocal critic of the sample images. Some in the thread thought it was not fair to criticize the work presented without allowing you the opportunity to voice a counter argument.

The link has since been redacted as root folders lead to personal information which need not be disseminated. If you would like to participate in this frank and admittedly uncomplementary discussion, we would welcome your voice and perspective.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=25994.0

-Joe D.
That's just... wow. I really can't imagine my reaction if some random stranger sent me that, unsolicited, for apparently no reason whatsoever. Jeebus.
 
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