Official release of Nikon D850

[Sabaki]

The specs are impressive but let us wait for real-world reviews.

Sound advice, let's do that instead of miring ourselves into a state of depression :-\

 

[snoke]

You criticised Canon's APS-C lens line up. I asked what you want to see Canon do, and what you see other manufacturers dong that Canon are not doing.

No! Canon APS-C lens right for market. Sorry if you misunderstand.

But when upgrade from APS-C camera + lens to FF, can change brand too!

All cameras drop in price. What is your point?
We don't even know what the impact of the D850 is yet - you are merely hypothesising

Sabaki make hypothetical 8D so I follow.

I explain investment problem for owner to you.

I have model A, it has 20MP, 5fps. I buy for $2000. Keep good.
Model B announce.
If B have 24MP & 6fps, model A can sell maybe $1500. Maybe good price if good condition.
If B have 30MP & 8fps, model A get $1500? More difficult sale.
If B have 40MP & 10fps, model A get $1500? Very hard sale.
Yes, model A still make picture like before but value perception change with new model.

 

[foo]

It looks like it is cheaper than the 5D4 but is $200 really that significant?

depends on where in the world you are - usual nonesense.

What 'nonsense'?

You said it's $200 less than the 5D4, I pointed out that it's £150 more than the 5D4 - hence nonesense..

I agree that a difference like that isn't sufficient to be of concern to the sort of people who buy cameras like these

 

[AlanF]

Brilliant specifications, which I would love in a Canon. I am currently in Malaysia doing bird and nature photography with my 5DIV and 5DSR and have a dilemma of which body to use for different occasions. The 5DSR has a real edge on the 5DIV for sheer resolution but the 5DIV is better in poor light and for action shots. It would be great for Canon to combine the two as Nikon has done, and rid of that blurring filter.

 

[scyrene]

But to repeat my request - what do other manufacturers do that you want Canon to do?

More aggressive product.

Canon product strategy sleepy. Nikon/Sony exciting.

As others have said elsewhere, Nikon and Sony *have* to be more aggressive, because they have a smaller market share. They have to work harder to get the sales they want. You may not like it - I expect few people do, except Canon and those who profit from them - but that's how it is. They don't have to take as many risks, because they are in the lead. And no exciting product Nikon, Sony, or anyone else has produced has changed that in many years.

 

[Mikehit]

It looks like it is cheaper than the 5D4 but is $200 really that significant?

depends on where in the world you are - usual nonesense.

What 'nonsense'?

You said it's $200 less than the 5D4, I pointed out that it's £150 more than the 5D4 - hence nonesense..

I agree that a difference like that isn't sufficient to be of concern to the sort of people who buy cameras like these

In the official Nikon release it is less than the 5D4 is at the moment anbd it is less than the official 5D4 launch price.
So no nonsense.

 

[snoke]

As others have said elsewhere, Nikon and Sony *have* to be more aggressive, because they have a smaller market share. They have to work harder to get the sales they want. You may not like it - I expect few people do, except Canon and those who profit from them - but that's how it is. They don't have to take as many risks, because they are in the lead. And no exciting product Nikon, Sony, or anyone else has produced has changed that in many years.

Canon #1 due to aggression.

Which product?

1Ds - 1st FF DSLR
10D - 1st "affordable" DSLR at $1500
300D - 1st DSLR under $1000
5D Mark II - 1st FF DSLR with 1080p

Only Canon have FF DSLR for ~5 years (2002 - 2007).

Early land grab. Make name.

 

[SecureGSM]

I agree with you, I hope Nikon is on top of this and marketing department works overtime to augment the product launch.

I agree with others who noted that Nikon is going all out on D850 with price set on the verge of desperation.
Survival mode comes to mind. I recon they sell this camera $500 short at the very least. I would say that if it was priced at $3799, it still sells just fine.

It's sad when an apparently awesome body has to be flogged to entice people to switch. The idea, of course, is that even if they barely break even or lose a little on the body, it's all good, because no matter what, people need to buy a few lenses.

 

[OSOK]

Competition is a good thing. Nikon is desperate and needs to get back into the game. So they did away with holding back and offered up the most features and specs that were technologically available to them and did so at a great price. Canon on the other hand, as market leader has the privilege to hold back specs on cameras to segment their lines. Unfortunate for Canon users.

Comparing the overall internet response -

5DSR: Mostly positive, few gripes and complaints. Excitement level after announcement - high.

5D Mark 4: Mostly positive, several gripes and complaints. Excitement level after announcement - average to low.

6D Mark 2: Mostly negative, many gripes and complaints. Excitement level after announcement - very low.

D850: Almost universally positive. Almost no gripes or complaints. Excitement level after announcement - extremely high.

5D Mark 4 was a decent upgrade, but didn't blow anyone away or amaze them. 6D Mark 2 is a camera that hardly anyone really wanted. D850 is a camera almost everyone wants or wishes they had in features and spec

5D Mark 4 owners wouldn't have been angry at Canon for being given 9 FPS, no AA filter, a tilt screen, a better AF system, faster and better memory card compatibility, 4K without crop factor .....just to name a few things. All of which without a price increase!!!!



Well done Nikon!

 

[scyrene]

As others have said elsewhere, Nikon and Sony *have* to be more aggressive, because they have a smaller market share. They have to work harder to get the sales they want. You may not like it - I expect few people do, except Canon and those who profit from them - but that's how it is. They don't have to take as many risks, because they are in the lead. And no exciting product Nikon, Sony, or anyone else has produced has changed that in many years.

Canon #1 due to aggression.

Which product?

1Ds - 1st FF DSLR
10D - 1st "affordable" DSLR at $1500
300D - 1st DSLR under $1000
5D Mark II - 1st FF DSLR with 1080p

Only Canon have FF DSLR for ~5 years (2002 - 2007).

Early land grab. Make name.

Sure, but that doesn't explain why they have remained in the lead in sales, and have even increased their market share, especially recently. The EOS-M was decidedly timid to begin with, and that series of cameras has never gained the praise of online commentators the way e.g. Sony mirrorless cameras have, yet Canon is (as Neuro likes to point out) second in that market now.

Aggressive product placement isn't the only way to succeed. Less flashy things like reliability, after sales service, and brand recognition are all very important too.

 

[Mikehit]

Competition is a good thing. Nikon is desperate and needs to get back into the game. So they did away with holding back and offered up the most features and specs that were technologically available to them and did so at a great price. Canon on the other hand, as market leader has the privilege to hold back specs on cameras to segment their lines. Unfortunate for Canon users.

Comparing the overall internet response -

5DSR: Mostly positive, few gripes and complaints. Excitement level after announcement - high.

5D Mark 4: Mostly positive, several gripes and complaints. Excitement level after announcement - average to low.

6D Mark 2: Mostly negative, many gripes and complaints. Excitement level after announcement - very low.

D850: Almost universally positive. Almost no gripes or complaints. Excitement level after announcement - extremely high.

5D Mark 4 was a decent upgrade, but didn't blow anyone away or amaze them. 6D Mark 2 is a camera that hardly anyone really wanted. D850 is a camera almost everyone wants or wishes they had in features and spec

5D Mark 4 owners wouldn't have been angry at Canon for being given 9 FPS, no AA filter, a tilt screen, a better AF system, faster and better memory card compatibility, 4K without crop factor .....just to name a few things. All of which without a price increase!!!!



Well done Nikon!

You refer to 'excitement after announcement'. People on Canon forums seem to be far more cynical about Canon new releases than Nikon users are about Nikon releases and I think this comes from a feeling of 'they are bigger so their products should be better'. In business that is not always the case.

So instead of giving an assessment of peoples' response on forums to the announcement, a better assessment would be user satisfaction and how many people upgraded (especially from the model it is replacing). I would venture from comments after all the hullabaloo has died down that the 5DIV is not 'average to low' but 'high'.
The 6D2 is looking 'solid but not exciting'.

D850 is high, but Nikon models usually are...then people get their hands on the model and it cools rapidly especially when they get product recalls.

5D Mark 4 owners wouldn't have been angry at Canon for being given 9 FPS, no AA filter, a tilt screen, a better AF system, faster and better memory card compatibility, 4K without crop factor .....just to name a few things. All of which without a price increase!!!!

No, we would not have been angry. I for one would have been very happy, but expecting all that wit no price increase is verging on dumb. What you seem to want is a 1Dx2 at 5D prices.
By the way, what do you mean by 'better memory card compatability'?

 

[SecureGSM]

D850 with its' feature set and list of options and parameters sits somewhere in between Canon 5D IV and Sony A9. It would be reasonable to price the product accordingly. there is nothing to LOL about. opinion is only that: opinion.
Marketing 101: Agressive price oriented messages should not be the main focus of your marketing communications.

lol, desperation. It is actually called aggressive pricing and the 5DmkIV is not hard to beat: canon crippled its video spec on purpose so it cost Nikon nothing to beat that. It has faster media, uses a processor that is a year newer, and embraced BSI a year later when sony has all but commoditized the technology. Nothing in this camera smells of desperation. Everything about it smells of the result of analyzing your competitor and doing enough to beat it. Nothing new. Sony carved its name out of this "survival mode": out innovating competitors and taking risks. Nikon is at it too. So survival mode is really not a special state companies should enter, but a state all companies that aren't going to be extinct should be at all the time. Any company that does not, ignores its market threats, releases lower spec gear at higher prices, has lost its right to win.

 

[privatebydesign]

As others have said elsewhere, Nikon and Sony *have* to be more aggressive, because they have a smaller market share. They have to work harder to get the sales they want. You may not like it - I expect few people do, except Canon and those who profit from them - but that's how it is. They don't have to take as many risks, because they are in the lead. And no exciting product Nikon, Sony, or anyone else has produced has changed that in many years.

Canon #1 due to aggression.

Which product?

1Ds - 1st FF DSLR
10D - 1st "affordable" DSLR at $1500
300D - 1st DSLR under $1000
5D Mark II - 1st FF DSLR with 1080p

Only Canon have FF DSLR for ~5 years (2002 - 2007).

Early land grab. Make name.

Sure, but that doesn't explain why they have remained in the lead in sales, and have even increased their market share, especially recently. The EOS-M was decidedly timid to begin with, and that series of cameras has never gained the praise of online commentators the way e.g. Sony mirrorless cameras have, yet Canon is (as Neuro likes to point out) second in that market now.

Aggressive product placement isn't the only way to succeed. Less flashy things like reliability, after sales service, and brand recognition are all very important too.

It doesn't explain mirrorless either. Canon didn't make one for years then they did, now a short time later with a modest lens selection and bodies generally derided in forums they are number 2.

Me thinks Canon has a very good marketing research department, and the courage to follow their suggestions despite the forums/websites/experts/pundits/reviewers etc all clamouring otherwise.

Canon have an uncanny knack of making products roundly dismissed by all those said experts yet clearly outselling their 'better' competition. of course is does mean for the Canon owner with more than a passing interest in cameras it can lead to envy, but at that point we really do need to look inwards to ourselves and be serious about that envy and the actual impact not having this or that feature would make to our own images.

All assuming images are the end goal, I have no problem with people owning cameras because they want to and they enjoy the tech and company of similar folk. For them any hobby will always have the next big thing, just look on any specialist forum.

 

[OSOK]

I for one would have been very happy, but expecting all that wit no price increase is verging on dumb.

Nikon just released a camera that blows the 5D Mark 4 out of the water on every single spec, and did so without a price increase.

By the way, what do you mean by 'better memory card compatability'?

Nikon has an XQD card and their SD card is a UHS-II. Canon just released the 6D Mark II, and didn't provide UHS-II compatibility.The 5D Mark 4 still has the original CF card and standard SD setup. It is a fairly new camera itself.

 

[Mikehit]

I for one would have been very happy, but expecting all that wit no price increase is verging on dumb.

Nikon just released a camera that blows the 5D Mark 4 out of the water on every single spec, and did so without a price increase.

What Nikon are doing is irrelevant. Canon has decided that the price they are charging is relevant to the features offered and to expect them to add more at no added cost is fantasy.
By the way, why did Nikon not include GPS in the 850 at that cost?
Why did they not improve the WiFi at no cost - it is widely derided by Nikon owners
A screen that only tilts? How very m'eh. Surely a fully articulated screen would not have cost any more - after all, they have the technology. Nikon have gimped it
[/sarcasm]

And it seems the DR is no better than the D810....ITS WORSE THAN THE 5DIV....and no advancement in 3 years??? WTF???
http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20IV,Nikon%20D810,Nikon%20D850,Sony%20ILCE-7RM2
Nikon are screwing you!!!
[/sarcasm]

 

[OSOK]

I for one would have been very happy, but expecting all that wit no price increase is verging on dumb.

Nikon just released a camera that blows the 5D Mark 4 out of the water on every single spec, and did so without a price increase.

What Nikon are doing is irrelevant. Canon has decided that the price they are charging is relevant to the features offered and to expect them to add more at no added cost is fantasy.
By the way, why did Nikon not include GPS in the 850 at that cost?
Why did they not improve the WiFi at no cost - it is widely derided by Nikon owners
A screen that only tilts? How very m'eh. Surely a fully articulated screen would not have cost any more - after all, they have the technology. Nikon have gimped it
[/sarcasm]

And it seems the DR is no better than the D810....ITS WORSE THAN THE 5DIV....and no advancement in 3 years??? WTF???
http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20IV,Nikon%20D810,Nikon%20D850,Sony%20ILCE-7RM2
Nikon are screwing you!!!
[/sarcasm]

The 5D Mark 4 does not have an articulating screen. It's understood that such a feature is far too much of a compromise for build quality. A camera body with a fully articulating screen is weaker than one without. A tilt screen is a compromise that allows more viewing angles without sacrificing the strength of the main body.

The 5D Mark4 does not even have a tilt screen.

GPS is a feature going out of style across the industry. It is of minimal use for most photographers and is a known-battery life killer. The omission of GPS pleases more people than it upsets by a wide margin.

The 5D4 has significantly less low ISO dynamic range than the D810. That is where the high dynamic range is of importance. At higher ISO, the 5D Mark 4 has slightly more, but it is of little to no use at high ISO. Diminishing returns. The 5D Mark 4 also has hideous photo destroying color banding issues at low ISO when shadow lifting, rendering much of the dynamic range pointless. Has Canon fixed this? At least Nikon has the integrity and respect for its customers to issue recalls and fix the issue. Canon ignores and pretends their issues do not exist, and handle them as one-offs. This way, they only have to pay for the ones that people actually send it. Everyone else lives with the lemon. Ignorance is bliss I suppose. It could also be the reason why Canon released the 6D Mark 2 with a sensor that has zero improvement in dynamic range over the 6D. After the 5D Mark 4, maybe they've backtracked on high dynamic range due to the problems they've had.

 

[Speedster]

I for one would have been very happy, but expecting all that wit no price increase is verging on dumb.

Nikon just released a camera that blows the 5D Mark 4 out of the water on every single spec, and did so without a price increase.

And it seems the DR is no better than the D810....ITS WORSE THAN THE 5DIV....and no advancement in 3 years??? WTF???
http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20IV,Nikon%20D810,Nikon%20D850,Sony%20ILCE-7RM2
Nikon are screwing you!!!
[/sarcasm]

I wish you wouldn't feed this troll. His postings and your latest response (seemingly looking at estimated numbers) make for tiresome reading.

 

[OSOK]

That is an unjust comment. How am I trolling when I am posting in the third party manufacturers section of this forum in a thread about a Nikon camera?

 

[Quirkz]

God I hate these threads.

Let's be clear: if the 850 delivers what is promised, with reliability, then wow! Great for Nikon users, well done Nikon. Real competition is a very good thing.

Will it make the pictures I take with my superb 5d4 magically worse? No! Do I suddenly regret my choice? Not in the slightest. I love my 5d4, and my little m5, and the photos I get with them. I recently sold my Sony a7s and Fuji film X70 cameras and lenses because I was just happier using, and got better photos with my canons.

I'm going to be genuinely very pleased if the 850 lives up to the promise of the spec sheet, and for all those that buy them - they have lovely big numbers after all! . But please stop telling me that my canon cameras suck, because my photos and those of everyone else who shoots canon clearly says otherwise. Please stop implying that canon is nerfing and cheating me; because every day I use either of my canons, all I can think is 'wow. This camera is amazing and has nailed it for me'.

Just go out, buy the 850, and have a great time using it and taking beautiful photos. So many wonderful photos were lost in the time people took to read just this post.

 

[Mikehit]

I wish you wouldn't feed this troll. His postings and your latest response (seemingly looking at estimated numbers) make for tiresome reading.

Bill Claff working off estimated numbers is precisely why the 6D2 got so much flak so I was interested in what response would be when the manufacturer they hold is such high esteem does prettymuch the same thing.
Yet again it seems that when Canon don't add a feature they are 'nerfing' and 'crippling'.But when Nikon omit a feature they are being practical and there is a reason for it.