Olympus announces the M-D E-M1X, an EOS-1D X Mark II killer?

[Graphic.Artifacts]

We should not be fixating on the sensor, what is important here is that this shows what features can be expected with sufficient computing power.

Exactly right. Combine the optics and larger sensor of an interchangeable lens camera with the computational abilities of a smart phone and I think you start to get a sense of where cameras are going. You have to admire the effort.
If you can get decent bokeh and subject seperation with computation vs fast lenses I could see some sports shooters getting on board. MFT sensors should be fine for online content which is where most sports pics live and the lenses will be a fraction of the size and expense of full frame..

 

[dak723]

I looked at the MFT forum on fredmiranda. The new Oly is not going down that well. Complaints about old technology in a new body.

Yes, the usual idiotic comments from folks who have never - and will never - touch the camera. Same as folks here who automatically start whining and screaming when Canon uses the same sensor in the R that is in the 5D IV. Doesn't matter if the sensor is excellent, but it should be NEW - even if it is no better.

 

[Jack Douglas]

I sure do admire your photos, Jack!

Thanks. My only response is that I try hard and persistence plus luck pays off more often than one would think. A nice secondary benefit is learning much more about the behaviour of all the critters in my environment. What a wonderful hobby.

Jack

 

[Talys]

The comments I read suggested that in low light the AF tanks, and noise is a problem. …

Maybe this new "smart" camera would have focused on the eyes but given the speed of movement I somehow doubt it - for sure my 1DX2 won't refocus as fast as this bird moves, so I'm dependent on luck with 14 FPS. Remember the new 1DX2 ad demonstrating "fast" AF with an otter running (plodding) straight towards the camera. Apparently Nikon does much better but I doubt it would be that much better here.

First of all, Jack, awesome photo

The issue of low light AF performance (or performance with an extender) is probably always going to be the hardest one for mirrorless to compete with, versus the 1DX2. I am really eager to see how Canon deals with this as they release their first "professional" mirrorless, which to them is synonymous with works well with big whites and TCs.

With regards to animal eye AF, I think that all of these implementations are going to be with useful with respect to animal portraiture, or at most, slow moving, large animals (like a dog that's walking), rather than animals in quick motion. Eve with the best human eye AF, you can't focus on the eye of an athlete as they play basketball, for example, so we can't expect that it will work any better to keep focus on the eye of a bird, or a kitten pouncing a toy. The level of compute required for that is probably far more than what you could put onto a tiny camera.

The easier fix would probably be to simply take consecutive photos with microadjusted focus, and then let the user pick the picture they wanted after (or stack them).

 

[Ozarker]

Thanks. My only response is that I try hard and persistence plus luck pays off more often than one would think. A nice secondary benefit is learning much more about the behaviour of all the critters in my environment. What a wonderful hobby.

Jack

And all that beautiful art to hang on your walls!

 

[raptor3x]

It does offer a few more things than the EM-1 II:
Joystick to move AF points

This is indeed a positive change, it was ridiculous that they didn't put it in the E-M1ii but good to see they're adding it now, especially since you can buy a G9 now for $1000 and it has a joystick.

Better weather sealing

Do we have any evidence it's better than the E-M1ii? The E-M1ii has an IPX rating as well and people have done dunk tests with it.

More effective SSWF dust reduction filter

Ok, I guess? The current system seems pretty much perfect so I'm not sure what they're improving.

Hand held high res shooting

This is just a firmware update, same methodology as Pentax.

Improved IBIS - from 7 to 7.5 stops

This is a nice update, not particularly useful for a sports camera but nice to have anyway.

Low light AF is now rated down to -6EV with use of F1.2 PRO lenses

We never got a low light AF specification for the E-M1ii and given that the low light AF is purely CDAF and the cameras share the exact same sensor it's safe to say that this is just another firmware update. The one video I've seen online comparing the low light AF between the E-M1ii and E-M1X shows on a minor improvement; the E-M1ii can focus on everything the E-M1X can do but the E-M1X is just a bit faster.

Subject tracking

I assume you mean the "Deep Learning AI" as the actual C-AF + TR is completely unchanged. Again, nice feature but it's just a software change running on the same hardware as the E-M1ii; it would probably just run a lot slower on the E-M1ii.

Added "My Menu" customizable menu folder

Firmware.

New Olympus Log format for video

Firmware.

Rated shutter life of 400,000 actuations

That's nice, although not particularly relevant for a camera which is centered around the electronic shutter, a new sensor with an improved readout speed would be way more useful than increased shutter durability.

New video AF setting options

Say it with me, firmware.

Simulated ND filters

Give me an F
Give me an I
Give me an R
Give me an M
.
.
.
You see where this is going.

So what non-firmware features do we have? An extra processor, an improved IBIS gyroscope, better dust reduction, possibly better weather sealing, and a joystick. Oh, also higher magnification EVF optics. Is that really worth double the price of the E-M1ii? Had they released this in 2016 alongside the E-M1ii I think this could have been a hit or if they had released it now at $2K I think the reception would have been positive. However, releasing this camera in 2019 for $3K is just an absurd decision on their part. I'll wait until I can pick one up for $2K just like the Panasonic 200 2.8 which was also comically overpriced and was a dud until they dropped the price to around $2K (the official price on the is still $3K but it's super easy to get them for $2K with the 1.4x TC).

 

[raptor3x]

Yes, the usual idiotic comments from folks who have never - and will never - touch the camera. Same as folks here who automatically start whining and screaming when Canon uses the same sensor in the R that is in the 5D IV. Doesn't matter if the sensor is excellent, but it should be NEW - even if it is no better.

The FM m43 forum is probably the highest density of expensive m43 gear anywhere on the internet, if anyone was going to buy a m43 super camera it's that group.

 

[ethanz]

We should not be fixating on the sensor, what is important here is that this shows what features can be expected with sufficient computing power.

I think we've also seen that with the iPhones

 

[ethanz]

I looked at the MFT forum on fredmiranda. The new Oly is not going down that well. Complaints about old technology in a new body.

Maybe us Canonites should lend them a shoulder to cry on. We hear those complaints a lot.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Talys, thanks for the complement. It would be interesting if a burst could be programmed to have a focus shift. When a birds head is not prominently forward and the action is fast it's almost impossible to get the eye in focus and I agree that it's unlikely that computing will be fast enough to remedy that in the near future.

CanonFanBoy, I don't have a single framed photo on any walls, just a couple unframed that a friend printed, in my computer room. I have zero experience with having printing done and have just avoided it, although it's something I need to investigate further.

Jack

 

[privatebydesign]

Lots of caveats to many of the features especially the high frame rates with 12 bit compressed RAW images, oh and locking AF AND exposure! Crappy LCD viewfinder, fast glass that still doesn't give you the dof isolation of bigger formats, antiquated and unintuitive multilevel menus. Overly large body for sensor size and low image quality at relatively modest iso levels.

AWESOME image stabilization.

Doesn't sound like a winner to me...

 

[Jack Douglas]

Sounds like the usual compromises but in a certain context pretty amazing ... for a lower price. It won't draw me.

Jack

 

[ethanz]

Sounds like the usual compromises but in a certain context pretty amazing ... for a lower price. It won't draw me.

Jack

Apparently for a M43 camera it is very expensive.

 

[Aglet]

That's nice, although not particularly relevant for a camera which is centered around the electronic shutter, a new sensor with an improved readout speed would be way more useful than increased shutter durability.

When the thing can flutter its mechanical shutter at 15 to 18fps having 400k longevity is a good thing. (That's only a little over 6 hours of life at full speed!)

The ONE feature that would have ME ordering this body would have been GLOBAL-SHUTTER.

I was really hoping for it since Sony had announced the feature on a recent sensor update press release in FF format I think.
I was hoping there was going to be a 4/3 version in this body.

FWIW, the readout speed of the EM!v2 with e-shutter is pretty quick and I've shot fast action with it and the rolling shutter effect was negligible. I still haven't measure the actual speed of it.
If they've managed to increase the readout speed on this model even by a little bit it would come in handy.

Had they released this in 2016 alongside the E-M1ii I think this could have been a hit..

True. There's not a lot of differentiation between the 2 unless you really need these latest features.

releasing this camera in 2019 for $3K is just an absurd decision on their part. I'll wait ..

I can understand them pricing it as such:
- It's still a lot cheaper than a FF sports-body while offering an impressive, but different, set of features
- everything coming out lately is considerably pricier than it was a few years ago.
- launch price is usually high to benefit from the gotta-have-it buyers.
- pricing it too low at launch sends a signal that it's not as high-end a product as they want to position it into.

I still think it is a bit too spendy tho... $2500us might be where it ends up moving.

Now I hope an EM1v3 will get the joystick for AF selection; I found the touchscreen is a bit sensitive for this purpose so turned it off and the D-pad is too small and fiddly. And I also hope it will get a global shutter sensor that can provide at least the same IQ as the current model.
Everything else is just fine and is still my favorite camera, all-round, even with 5 FF bodies of various makes at hand.

 

[raptor3x]

When the thing can flutter its mechanical shutter at 15 to 18fps having 400k longevity is a good thing. (That's only a little over 6 hours of life at full speed!)

The ONE feature that would have ME ordering this body would have been GLOBAL-SHUTTER.

If you shoot with mechanical shutter and want C-AF it's limited to 10 fps, 15 fps is with AE/AF locked and 18 fps with C-AF is electronic shutter only. You're correct that the readout speed is pretty quick, for many situations it's good enough but it's also just slow enough that there are plenty of situations where it can be problematic, especially if you're shooting indoors.

 

[Pape]

there are pretty awesome lenses or sensor on mft cameras according to doxmark they perform as good sharpnes what 7dii with it lenses and its odd cause MFT sensors got double smaller pixels.? That MOS sensor does difference?
or do they just bribed uptune mos sensor performance ?

 

[AlanF]

Yes, the usual idiotic comments from folks who have never - and will never - touch the camera. Same as folks here who automatically start whining and screaming when Canon uses the same sensor in the R that is in the 5D IV. Doesn't matter if the sensor is excellent, but it should be NEW - even if it is no better.

Canon used the 5DIV sensor in the R, but with an appreciable drop in price. With Olympus, there has been a huge increase in price, which presumably irks the MFT crowd. The R is very good value for money in terms of IQ.

 

[dak723]

This is indeed a positive change, it was ridiculous that they didn't put it in the E-M1ii but good to see they're adding it now, especially since you can buy a G9 now for $1000 and it has a joystick.


Do we have any evidence it's better than the E-M1ii? The E-M1ii has an IPX rating as well and people have done dunk tests with it.


Ok, I guess? The current system seems pretty much perfect so I'm not sure what they're improving.


This is just a firmware update, same methodology as Pentax.


This is a nice update, not particularly useful for a sports camera but nice to have anyway.


We never got a low light AF specification for the E-M1ii and given that the low light AF is purely CDAF and the cameras share the exact same sensor it's safe to say that this is just another firmware update. The one video I've seen online comparing the low light AF between the E-M1ii and E-M1X shows on a minor improvement; the E-M1ii can focus on everything the E-M1X can do but the E-M1X is just a bit faster.


I assume you mean the "Deep Learning AI" as the actual C-AF + TR is completely unchanged. Again, nice feature but it's just a software change running on the same hardware as the E-M1ii; it would probably just run a lot slower on the E-M1ii.


Firmware.


Firmware.


That's nice, although not particularly relevant for a camera which is centered around the electronic shutter, a new sensor with an improved readout speed would be way more useful than increased shutter durability.


Say it with me, firmware.


Give me an F
Give me an I
Give me an R
Give me an M
.
.
.
You see where this is going.

So what non-firmware features do we have? An extra processor, an improved IBIS gyroscope, better dust reduction, possibly better weather sealing, and a joystick. Oh, also higher magnification EVF optics. Is that really worth double the price of the E-M1ii? Had they released this in 2016 alongside the E-M1ii I think this could have been a hit or if they had released it now at $2K I think the reception would have been positive. However, releasing this camera in 2019 for $3K is just an absurd decision on their part. I'll wait until I can pick one up for $2K just like the Panasonic 200 2.8 which was also comically overpriced and was a dud until they dropped the price to around $2K (the official price on the is still $3K but it's super easy to get them for $2K with the 1.4x TC).

Yes, I see where this is going. Rather than admitting there are a number of features that have been improved or added compared the E-M1 II, you decide to ridicule me. You act as if additions and changes to software aren't really differences or additions, but anyone who has worked with almost any computer program knows how ridiculous that statement is. I suppose, as a drafter, that updates in software don't make a difference or add value to a product, that I could work just as well with the first versions of Autocad as I can today with the new version. Never mind that without Xrefs, paper/model space, annotative text, 3d modeling, as well as a dozen other features, it would take me two to three times as long to produce a drawing.

See where I am going? Software/firmware updates can make a big difference.

Which is why when you wrote:

"The problem is it offers almost nothing over the existing E-M1ii at nearly triple the current street price."

I replied with a list of a dozen or so items that it DOES offer. If you are not happy about the price, that's not my fault.

 

[Don Haines]

Yes, I see where this is going. Rather than admitting there are a number of features that have been improved or added compared the E-M1 II, you decide to ridicule me. You act as if additions and changes to software aren't really differences or additions, but anyone who has worked with almost any computer program knows how ridiculous that statement is. I suppose, as a drafter, that updates in software don't make a difference or add value to a product, that I could work just as well with the first versions of Autocad as I can today with the new version. Never mind that without Xrefs, paper/model space, annotative text, 3d modeling, as well as a dozen other features, it would take me two to three times as long to produce a drawing.

See where I am going? Software/firmware updates can make a big difference.

Which is why when you wrote:

"The problem is it offers almost nothing over the existing E-M1ii at nearly triple the current street price."

I replied with a list of a dozen or so items that it DOES offer. If you are not happy about the price, that's not my fault.

But it does offer significant hardware changes, much more computing power to handle that new software! Some are fixated on the sensor, but without the software you just have an expensive chunk of metal

 

[old-pr-pix]

I had a chance to handle/shoot the E-M1X on Thursday. Two Olympus Visionaries and a tech. rep. met with a roomful of Oly shooters (many of whom make their living shooting with OMD's). They had 3 pre-production E-M1X's to play with. I liked the body and the features (compares nicely w/my gripped Canon stuff - I don't own 1DX, too heavy for me). m43 sensor is more than good enough for 80% of what I shoot (events). Thumbstick implementation is better than on my G9 although I missed the top screen of G9 and all my Canon gear. Computational photography is likely to influence future firmware and there is a lot of processing power in the E-M1X. No comments from Oly as to how much of the capability of the processors is presently being used.

General comments from the pro's in the room: They welcome the significant AF tracking improvements, had hoped for a slight MP bump (24-28 target), happy with current DR although always hope for more, most shoot with grip so size is just fine (although many like being able to reduce size by leaving grip off of E-M1mII or E-M5mII), improved stabilization is nice but most shot subjects that move and not video so not a big deal, wedding shooters still looking for thinner DOF (computational add-on to f1.2 lenses suggested) while event shooters are happy with DOF with current lens line-up. Added GPS and 'field sensors' is something that would help me, but no one else seemed to care. I didn't see anyone pre-order at the $2999.99 price - consensus seemed to be $2400-$2500 was the buy-in point.