Patent: Canon EF 135 f/2L w/Apodization Filters

Maiaibing

EOS 6D MK II
Mar 7, 2014
1,054
2
Kabul
www.flickr.com
Maximilian said:
Give me a few example pictures to have a better imagination of what this means to the IQ.
My imaginative power is not good enough for this ;)
Great visualisation - and a lot of samples here: http://www.dyxum.com/columns/articles/lenses/sal-135f28/sony-af-135-stf-sal-135f28_review.asp. Bokeh is simply the best money can buy.
 

entoman

EOS M50
May 8, 2015
25
0
UK
gruhl28 said:
neuroanatomist said:
entoman said:
Couldn't help laughing at the patent description ;D

So this lens not only promisies to give us "vignetting" :( but also guarantees that we'll get a "good blurred image :-\ at all angle of view". Lovers of fuzzy pics and dark corners will snap up this lens instantly!

Seriously, I'm not quite sure what Canon are trying to say here - a realistic translation would appear to be "good bokeh despite heavy vignetting".
Canon is saying it in Japanese, where I'm sure it makes perfect sense. Perhaps instead of laughing, you might consider going to Google Translate (which was used to generate the English text above), and suggest a better translation for that phrase. Better yet, learn Japanese so you can properly translate all of Canon's patents better than Google. Laughing is probably easier, though.
I think he was laughing at the translation, not at Canon.
Yes, I was laughing at the google translation, neuro unfortunately doesn't understand humour.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,604
2,060
entoman said:
neuro unfortunately doesn't understand humour.
That's because you're spelling it wrong. ;)

Or maybe you need to borrow the big winky emoticon I use... :)

Nevertheless, apologies for the misunderstanding.
 

slclick

EOS 3
Dec 17, 2013
3,114
636
neuroanatomist said:
entoman said:
neuro unfortunately doesn't understand humour.
That's because you're spelling it wrong. ;)

Or maybe you need to borrow the big winky emoticon I use... :)

Nevertheless, apologies for the misunderstanding.
This could easily segue into the Txx vs XXXD globalization naming scheme thread.
 

Maximilian

The dark side - I've been there
Nov 7, 2013
2,589
402
Germany
Maiaibing said:
Maximilian said:
Give me a few example pictures to have a better imagination of what this means to the IQ.
My imaginative power is not good enough for this ;)
Great visualisation - and a lot of samples hedre: http://www.dyxum.com/columns/articles/lenses/sal-135f28/sony-af-135-stf-sal-135f28_review.asp. Bokeh is simply the best money can buy.
Thanks for pointing towards that review.
Although a few days old (2007) and with old sensor tech (Konica Minolta 7D, 2004, 6 MP) quite impressing results.

I hope we can see something like that with latest lens tech performing on a 50 MP sensor soon.
 

Maiaibing

EOS 6D MK II
Mar 7, 2014
1,054
2
Kabul
www.flickr.com
Maximilian said:
Thanks for pointing towards that review.
Although a few days old (2007) and with old sensor tech (Konica Minolta 7D, 2004, 6 MP) quite impressing results.

I hope we can see something like that with latest lens tech performing on a 50 MP sensor soon.
Some more (and w/larger sensor) samples can be found here:
http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/sony-135mm-f28-t45-stf-sal135f28_topic11302_page1.html
 
Dec 26, 2016
1
0
Maximilian said:
Give me a few example pictures to have a better imagination of what this means to the IQ.
My imaginative power is not good enough for this ;)
This was taken with Canon 40D and EF 70-200 f/4L IS @ f4.0: https://www.flickr.com/photos/rawhu/14019405114/

This was taken with Sony DSLR-A900 and 135 F2.8[T4.5] STF @ F4.5: https://www.flickr.com/photos/rawhu/14015730092/

The 135 STF absolutely destroys the 70-200 f/4L IS in terms of bokeh. The 70-200 produces onion rings, the backgound is busy, the bokeh is unpleasant. The 135 STF creates a creamy, dreamy, incredible bokeh.

Another picture with 135 STF: https://www.flickr.com/photos/rawhu/14015719712/
 

ExodistPhotography

Photographer, Artist & Youtuber
Feb 20, 2016
224
1
41
Phillippines
www.youtube.com
RAW.hu said:
Maximilian said:
Give me a few example pictures to have a better imagination of what this means to the IQ.
My imaginative power is not good enough for this ;)
This was taken with Canon 40D and EF 70-200 f/4L IS @ f4.0: https://www.flickr.com/photos/rawhu/14019405114/

This was taken with Sony DSLR-A900 and 135 F2.8[T4.5] STF @ F4.5: https://www.flickr.com/photos/rawhu/14015730092/

The 135 STF absolutely destroys the 70-200 f/4L IS in terms of bokeh. The 70-200 produces onion rings, the backgound is busy, the bokeh is unpleasant. The 135 STF creates a creamy, dreamy, incredible bokeh.

Another picture with 135 STF: https://www.flickr.com/photos/rawhu/14015719712/
If you want to make a comparison of bokeh quality you should shoot them both at the same apertures and distance from the subject. I personally thought the subjects in frame looked better on the 70-200 f/4 despite the background.
 

Maiaibing

EOS 6D MK II
Mar 7, 2014
1,054
2
Kabul
www.flickr.com
ExodistPhotography said:
If you want to make a comparison of bokeh quality you should shoot them both at the same apertures and distance from the subject. I personally thought the subjects in frame looked better on the 70-200 f/4 despite the background.
Bokeh is a subjective impression of the out-of-focus rendering of a lens. So maybe a STF lens is not for you. However, most people tend to agree that a gradual Gaussian blur without harsh/double lines is the ideal bokeh pattern. Here the STF is superior - as can be seen in the two samples.

Still I agree with you that the lack of DOF makes the STF image less compelling and - even if I'm a sucker for bokeh - what's in focus will almost always count more than what's not. This could have been solved by shooting the STF @ f/4 or f/5 or by making a sandwich shot (which is what I would probably have done).

One of the specific advantages with the STF is in fact its ability to maintain a great blur pattern as you increase the f-stops, while all other lenses take a more noticeable bokeh hit as soon as you stop down. The 135L being an example of this, so that the bokeh of the 135L @ f/4 cannot match the bokeh of the 70-200mm f/4 IS L shot wide open.
 

StudentOfLight

I'm on a life-long journey of self-discovery
Nov 2, 2013
1,444
1
37
Cape Town
Mistral75 said:
This is not the first time Canon are showing an interest in lenses with an apodisation element. There is a 2012 patent (2012-128151) illustrated by six examples, five of which are 135mm f/2.8 lenses and one a 180mm f/3.5.

The 2016-218444 patent is illustrated by six examples too: not only two 135mm f/2 but also a 24mm f/1.4, a 35mm f/1.4 and two 50mm f/2.

In the 2016 patent, there are two apodisation elements, one on each side of the aperture, instead of one in the existing lenses (Minolta / Sony 135mm f/2.8 STF, Fujinon 56mm f/1.2 APD and Venus Optics Laowa STF 105mm f/2) and in the examples in the 2012 patent.

A last consideration: phase-detection autofocus cannot be used in conjunction with an apodisation element (contrast-detection autofocus can).
So do you suspect this would be for a hybrid/mirrorless camera where contrast detect is used?
 

Maiaibing

EOS 6D MK II
Mar 7, 2014
1,054
2
Kabul
www.flickr.com
StudentOfLight said:
Mistral75 said:
This is not the first time Canon are showing an interest in lenses with an apodisation element. There is a 2012 patent (2012-128151) illustrated by six examples, five of which are 135mm f/2.8 lenses and one a 180mm f/3.5.

The 2016-218444 patent is illustrated by six examples too: not only two 135mm f/2 but also a 24mm f/1.4, a 35mm f/1.4 and two 50mm f/2.

In the 2016 patent, there are two apodisation elements, one on each side of the aperture, instead of one in the existing lenses (Minolta / Sony 135mm f/2.8 STF, Fujinon 56mm f/1.2 APD and Venus Optics Laowa STF 105mm f/2) and in the examples in the 2012 patent.

A last consideration: phase-detection autofocus cannot be used in conjunction with an apodisation element (contrast-detection autofocus can).
So do you suspect this would be for a hybrid/mirrorless camera where contrast detect is used?
SONY shows the way: 100mm STF with image stabilisation AND autofucos using phase-detection. Come on Canon you can do it too!

https://www.dpreview.com/news/2820818690/sony-fe-100mm-f2-8-stf-bokeh-demystified
 

Jopa

EOS 6D MK II
Dec 11, 2015
1,056
0
Maiaibing said:
StudentOfLight said:
Mistral75 said:
This is not the first time Canon are showing an interest in lenses with an apodisation element. There is a 2012 patent (2012-128151) illustrated by six examples, five of which are 135mm f/2.8 lenses and one a 180mm f/3.5.

The 2016-218444 patent is illustrated by six examples too: not only two 135mm f/2 but also a 24mm f/1.4, a 35mm f/1.4 and two 50mm f/2.

In the 2016 patent, there are two apodisation elements, one on each side of the aperture, instead of one in the existing lenses (Minolta / Sony 135mm f/2.8 STF, Fujinon 56mm f/1.2 APD and Venus Optics Laowa STF 105mm f/2) and in the examples in the 2012 patent.

A last consideration: phase-detection autofocus cannot be used in conjunction with an apodisation element (contrast-detection autofocus can).
So do you suspect this would be for a hybrid/mirrorless camera where contrast detect is used?
SONY shows the way: 100mm STF with image stabilisation AND autofucos using phase-detection. Come on Canon you can do it too!

https://www.dpreview.com/news/2820818690/sony-fe-100mm-f2-8-stf-bokeh-demystified
It's T5.6! I only see it's used on a sunny day with strobes to stay within sync speed.
 

mackguyver

Master of Pain
Jopa said:
Maiaibing said:
StudentOfLight said:
Mistral75 said:
This is not the first time Canon are showing an interest in lenses with an apodisation element. There is a 2012 patent (2012-128151) illustrated by six examples, five of which are 135mm f/2.8 lenses and one a 180mm f/3.5.

The 2016-218444 patent is illustrated by six examples too: not only two 135mm f/2 but also a 24mm f/1.4, a 35mm f/1.4 and two 50mm f/2.

In the 2016 patent, there are two apodisation elements, one on each side of the aperture, instead of one in the existing lenses (Minolta / Sony 135mm f/2.8 STF, Fujinon 56mm f/1.2 APD and Venus Optics Laowa STF 105mm f/2) and in the examples in the 2012 patent.

A last consideration: phase-detection autofocus cannot be used in conjunction with an apodisation element (contrast-detection autofocus can).
So do you suspect this would be for a hybrid/mirrorless camera where contrast detect is used?
SONY shows the way: 100mm STF with image stabilisation AND autofucos using phase-detection. Come on Canon you can do it too!

https://www.dpreview.com/news/2820818690/sony-fe-100mm-f2-8-stf-bokeh-demystified
It's T5.6! I only see it's used on a sunny day with strobes to stay within sync speed.
I saw that, too, and that's a steep price to pay for the soft bokeh. In Sony's case, you have sensor+lens stabilization, plus nice clean high ISO, but still...
 

moreorless

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 18, 2011
778
2
That seems a bit of a strange one to me on a system that's still lacking a lot of core lenses.

Price wise as well your talking close to the Canon 85mm F/1.2 and not that far off of the new Nikon 105mm F/1.4, even ignoring the loss of T-stop your still talking a lot less basic DOF control.
 

pokerz

EOS 80D
Aug 19, 2016
167
0
Jopa said:
Maiaibing said:
StudentOfLight said:
Mistral75 said:
This is not the first time Canon are showing an interest in lenses with an apodisation element. There is a 2012 patent (2012-128151) illustrated by six examples, five of which are 135mm f/2.8 lenses and one a 180mm f/3.5.

The 2016-218444 patent is illustrated by six examples too: not only two 135mm f/2 but also a 24mm f/1.4, a 35mm f/1.4 and two 50mm f/2.

In the 2016 patent, there are two apodisation elements, one on each side of the aperture, instead of one in the existing lenses (Minolta / Sony 135mm f/2.8 STF, Fujinon 56mm f/1.2 APD and Venus Optics Laowa STF 105mm f/2) and in the examples in the 2012 patent.

A last consideration: phase-detection autofocus cannot be used in conjunction with an apodisation element (contrast-detection autofocus can).
So do you suspect this would be for a hybrid/mirrorless camera where contrast detect is used?
SONY shows the way: 100mm STF with image stabilisation AND autofucos using phase-detection. Come on Canon you can do it too!

https://www.dpreview.com/news/2820818690/sony-fe-100mm-f2-8-stf-bokeh-demystified
It's T5.6! I only see it's used on a sunny day with strobes to stay within sync speed.
Have you ever used a real STF len?
 

Jopa

EOS 6D MK II
Dec 11, 2015
1,056
0
pokerz said:
Jopa said:
Maiaibing said:
StudentOfLight said:
Mistral75 said:
This is not the first time Canon are showing an interest in lenses with an apodisation element. There is a 2012 patent (2012-128151) illustrated by six examples, five of which are 135mm f/2.8 lenses and one a 180mm f/3.5.

The 2016-218444 patent is illustrated by six examples too: not only two 135mm f/2 but also a 24mm f/1.4, a 35mm f/1.4 and two 50mm f/2.

In the 2016 patent, there are two apodisation elements, one on each side of the aperture, instead of one in the existing lenses (Minolta / Sony 135mm f/2.8 STF, Fujinon 56mm f/1.2 APD and Venus Optics Laowa STF 105mm f/2) and in the examples in the 2012 patent.

A last consideration: phase-detection autofocus cannot be used in conjunction with an apodisation element (contrast-detection autofocus can).
So do you suspect this would be for a hybrid/mirrorless camera where contrast detect is used?
SONY shows the way: 100mm STF with image stabilisation AND autofucos using phase-detection. Come on Canon you can do it too!

https://www.dpreview.com/news/2820818690/sony-fe-100mm-f2-8-stf-bokeh-demystified
It's T5.6! I only see it's used on a sunny day with strobes to stay within sync speed.
Have you ever used a real STF len?
Yes. The Sony 135 2.8 (4.5) STF. I never owned it though. Why?
Also, it's "lens" (singular) ;)