Patent: Canon RF 8mm f/4 Fisheye

[gmon750]

Gotta love the snobbish innuendo around here. "Better" would have been a nicer choice of words. Believe you me, the R trounces the 5D Mark III in my experience. I had a 5D mark III and know first hand.

There's always that one person...

I was referring to my own personal case Einstein. When buying a $3K+ camera, only to invest another $4K-$5K for an underwater housing, and lenses... that camera better be precisely what one needs. It's not "snobbish", it's a necessity.

If you like the current R body, good for you. Buy yourself a participation trophy and move on. I do PAID underwater photoshoots with many shoots costing thousands of dollars. Shots that cannot under any circumstance be lost. That means dual slots. I've had card failures during shoots and that backup slot saved me.

What's your backup-plan when spending money and resources to do an underwater shoot only to have a card fail on that R camera?

Canon does not offer that right now on any current R body. I'm also referring to "real" analog controls/joysticks and not that touch-bar control since it's unusable for underwater housings. Things you obviously didn't factor in before getting triggered.

I didn't imply my personal needs and opinions apply to everyone else. I'm in a very small niche group for Canon and accept that.

 

[melgross]

I cited this scenario in my last video. How do you keep the camera dry?

Underwater housing.

 

[Daan Stam]

So many announced RF lens yet again, but always see the same 11 lens on Canon website.

yeah sadly patents usually dont mean that a new lens is imminent, and that is if they come at all.

 

[Ozarker]

There's always that one person...

I was referring to my own personal case Einstein. When buying a $3K+ camera, only to invest another $4K-$5K for an underwater housing, and lenses... that camera better be precisely what one needs. It's not "snobbish", it's a necessity.

If you like the current R body, good for you. Buy yourself a participation trophy and move on. I do PAID underwater photoshoots with many shoots costing thousands of dollars. Shots that cannot under any circumstance be lost. That means dual slots. I've had card failures during shoots and that backup slot saved me.

What's your backup-plan when spending money and resources to do an underwater shoot only to have a card fail on that R camera?

Canon does not offer that right now on any current R body. I'm also referring to "real" analog controls/joysticks and not that touch-bar control since it's unusable for underwater housings. Things you obviously didn't factor in before getting triggered.

I didn't imply my personal needs and opinions apply to everyone else. I'm in a very small niche group for Canon and accept that.

Two card slots, needed or not, doesn't make a camera "real" or not. I understand some people need two slots. I also understand the costs associated with your niche and why you need two slots. That isn't the point. Be "real", dude. Here's your trophy: BTW: I can't imagine telling people who are using an 18-55 kit lens that they don't have a "real" lens. That is snobbish. Now I'll take my "participation trophy" R and run along home.

re·al
/ˈrē(ə)l/
adjective

• 1.actually existing as a thing or occurring in fact; not imagined or supposed:"Julius Caesar was a real person"synonymsactual, existent, nonfictional, nonfictitious, factual, ... moreantonymsunreal, imaginary
• 2.(of a substance or thing) not imitation or artificial; genuine

 

[Deleted member 378664]

I'm curious. How do you take your final Nadir shot? Do you avoid seeing tripod legs somehow? How close together do you get all the photos to a nodal point?

I will take my tripod out of the original footprint and shoot from an different angle onto the floor. With PTGUI there is a possibility to stitch such a shot when the viewpoint correction is switched off. You should place some small objects like some kind of jetons onto the floor to find these as controlpoints. They can easily be cloned out afterwards. This method does only work with flat surfaces without differences in height or depth.

 

[sulla]

It's a little expensive fun, but maximum of it, at least.

Here are a few images that I hope illustrate the use of that little fisheye lens nicely. You can have a great time with it!

Portraits I did for a company-website:


A portrait during a seminar:


Get real close and offer unseen perspectives


A friend


An ordinary portrait - with a twist

 

[melgross]

Here are a few images that I hope illustrate the use of that little fisheye lens nicely. You can have a great time with it!

Portraits I did for a company-website:
View attachment 189723

A portrait during a seminar:
View attachment 189724

Get real close and offer unseen perspectives
View attachment 189725

A friend
View attachment 189726

An ordinary portrait - with a twist
View attachment 189727

Great photos!

 

[AJ]

I have a Tokina 10-17 zoomable fisheye (APSC) that focuses insanely close. It's a fun lens. It's cracking sharp and very contrasty, but the purple fringing drives me nuts at times.

Anyways, I like using a fisheye for astrophotography because it's close to equal-area mapping (no stretch in the corners) and perspective doesn't matter for astro. I was hoping for something faster than f/4, given that the patent is for a prime. f/2.8 would be nice (like the old 15/2.8 which is a nice lens). f/2 would be even nicer...

 

[SteveC]

Here are a few images that I hope illustrate the use of that little fisheye lens nicely. You can have a great time with it!

Portraits I did for a company-website:
View attachment 189723

A portrait during a seminar:
View attachment 189724

Get real close and offer unseen perspectives
View attachment 189725

A friend
View attachment 189726

An ordinary portrait - with a twist
View attachment 189727

I'm not normally a fan of fisheye but you've done it well. In all cases you've either made sure the subject is relatively undistorted and used the distortions to pull the attention to the subject (sort of like how bokeh is used), or in one case...you used circular symmetry in your composition. (I guess you can't use rule of thirds here!)

(I guess I've seen too much fisheye where the point seems to be to make the subject's nose as big as the Empire State Building, both in the same frame. As if the point were to grotesqueify (if that's a word) things gratuitously.)

Edit: As I think about it, the key to your technique is to make sure that straight lines in the subject are never severely bent--just compressed, and only lightly so.

 

[Del Paso]

Ah, a Hologon !

Nope!
The Hologon was a non-distorsion ultrawide lens, not a fisheye.

 

[peters]

Another specialized lens and that is ok, impressive Canon lenses. I hope in time they there will be L quality lenses for advanced amateur, such as 24-70 or 28-70 f4...reasonably compact, reasonably affordable, reasonably light weight. That is mostly the way Nikon started their mirrorless. Not meant as a complaint about Canon, but please, at some point, introduce some lenses geared toward something for discriminating landscape photographers...good quality, without the cost or weight of fast, heavy lenses.

If you are ready to adapt, there are a lot of decently sized and priced EF lenses. But yes, if you want native lenses for RF, you are correct, there are only high end lenses available.
Though I think these High End lenses make the new mount and platform realy realy interesting

 

[David - Sydney]

Yep, I find it mostly useless. In the meantime it's a MUST underwater. But a fix focal length one? Nah, that's outdated. The zoom fisheye is a great thing.

As others have mentioned, underwater use is essential but 8-15mm zoom is far more useful than a fixed 8mm. I generally use my EF8-15mm at the 15mm fisheye end getting up close to reefs as strobes have a limited reach underwater or over/unders.
Although I will move to RF with the R5, I will keep my EF8-15mm + adapter as I don't see a RF version being substantially better
I'm not a surf photographer but a fixed lens can be more useful if the housing have limited controls built in. 8mm would mean being way inside the wave/impact zone though.
See the 3rd photo in the recent Nikon surf shots (https://mynikonlife.com.au/news/gea...eo-of-the-year-awards-finalists-announcement/) for a unique shot!
15mm for landscape... the horizon needs to be through the centre of the frame (see below). Tilting up/down can be interesting in certain situations when you deliberately wanting to bend the horizon up/down
I have also used it for astrolandscape for milky way bows to minimise the number of shots needed although f4 needs higher ISO than F2.8 for my 14mm Samyang.
.

 

[VORON]

Correct, if you shoot them horizontally leveled, but I normally shoot them with a angle of 6 degrees to the zenith (I use the 360 Atom with this built in angle) to have some overlap there as well espacially important with indoor shots. In my case there is a 5th Nadir shot necessary.

I shoot two vertical images with slight up-tilt, and two more images with slight down-tilt. Not using the tripod, just a thin nylon thread ending with a nut as a weight. In most cases the panoramas are stitched almost perfectly (MUCH better than with consumer-grade panoramic camera). Unless there's noticeable wind present.
My most recent panoramic photo made with this technique, 78 MP: https://photos.app.goo.gl/MPUsBFdoDg8PzcXi6

 

[usern4cr]

I shoot two vertical images with slight up-tilt, and two more images with slight down-tilt. Not using the tripod, just a thin nylon thread ending with a nut as a weight. In most cases the panoramas are stitched almost perfectly (MUCH better than with consumer-grade panoramic camera). Unless there's noticeable wind present.
My most recent panoramic photo made with this technique, 78 MP: https://photos.app.goo.gl/MPUsBFdoDg8PzcXi6

Wow - Is this what you do? :
* Tie the thread to a screw which goes into the bottom hole of the camera, thread extends just to the ground with nut on bottom to barely stop motion (maybe above a little cross on the ground?). This stabilizes camera position and aids in finding 90 degree directions.
* Two portrait shots in opposite directions, both slightly up.
* Two more of the same (slightly down), 90 degrees from the 1st 2.
That's enough to get the zenith and nadir, and overlap enough so there are no slivers missed.
(very clever!)

What is the focal length mm needed for enough overlap?

 

[privatebydesign]

I have worked on a commercial dive boat for well over 20 years and I have never seen anybody shoot with a circular fisheye. Full frame fisheye, or diagonal 180º yes, 8-15 zoomed to 15, 11-24, 14-24, 16-35, 17-40 all yes, but never a circular fisheye.

The only decent market for a circular fisheye is the VR 360º shooters, which is a quickly growing market in photography, real estate and businesses are expanding their virtual tours more and more.

 

[VORON]

Wow - Is this what you do? :
* Tie the thread to a screw which goes into the bottom hole of the camera, thread extends just to the ground with nut on bottom to barely stop motion (maybe above a little cross on the ground?). This stabilizes camera position and aids in finding 90 degree directions.

No, I use thin rubber ring to attach one end of the thread to the lens barrel, as close as possible to the front element (there the nodal point of 8-15 is - see this article).

The another end of the thread is equipped with steel nut as a weight. I take note of some point on the ground (like small rock or leaf), and then try to hover the nut right above this point as close as possible to the ground. That ensures the constant camera positioning within 1-2 cm without tripod. And you don't need fixing the nadir area, as your nut isn't visible on photos.

* Two portrait shots in opposite directions, both slightly up.
* Two more of the same (slightly down), 90 degrees from the 1st 2.
That's enough to get the zenith and nadir, and overlap enough so there are no slivers missed.
(very clever!)

What is the focal length mm needed for enough overlap?

Right. Is case with 8-15L I need 12 mm FL - so that's the horizontal FOV is exactly 180 degrees, and there are small black corners in your image. AFAIK it also works with that Tokina zoom fisheye - a version without lens shade.

As a result, your spherical panorama has 325% of your sensor resolution with just 4 shots, while in traditional way (shooting fully circular photos with 3 shots) you get just around 125% of sensor resolution.

I have doubts whether it's going to work on APS-C Canon cameras, due to 1.6x crop, as you won't get 180° horizontal coverage at 8 mm. On Sony with 1.5x crop the 8-15L @8mm works just right.

 

[Deleted member 378664]

No, I use thin rubber ring to attach one end of the thread to the lens barrel, as close as possible to the front element (there the nodal point of 8-15 is - see this article).

The another end of the thread is equipped with steel nut as a weight. I take note of some point on the ground (like small rock or leaf), and then try to hover the nut right above this point as close as possible to the ground. That ensures the constant camera positioning within 1-2 cm without tripod. And you don't need fixing the nadir area, as your nut isn't visible on photos.


Right. Is case with 8-15L I need 12 mm FL - so that's the horizontal FOV is exactly 180 degrees, and there are small black corners in your image. AFAIK it also works with that Tokina zoom fisheye - a version without lens shade.

As a result, your spherical panorama has 325% of your sensor resolution with just 4 shots, while in traditional way (shooting fully circular photos with 3 shots) you get just around 125% of sensor resolution.

I have doubts whether it's going to work on APS-C Canon cameras, due to 1.6x crop, as you won't get 180° horizontal coverage at 8 mm. On Sony with 1.5x crop the 8-15L @8mm works just right.

Hi,

your technique sounds interesting. I will try it also. Maybe I will fix the nut on the floor with my foot so that I can stabilize the cam at its NPP by spanning the nylon thread.

Yes, you are correct, the 8mm on 1,6x Canon Crop is not enough to get 180 degrees coverage onto the sensor.

 

[usern4cr]

No, I use thin rubber ring to attach one end of the thread to the lens barrel, as close as possible to the front element (there the nodal point of 8-15 is - see this article).

The another end of the thread is equipped with steel nut as a weight. I take note of some point on the ground (like small rock or leaf), and then try to hover the nut right above this point as close as possible to the ground. That ensures the constant camera positioning within 1-2 cm without tripod. And you don't need fixing the nadir area, as your nut isn't visible on photos.


Right. Is case with 8-15L I need 12 mm FL - so that's the horizontal FOV is exactly 180 degrees, and there are small black corners in your image. AFAIK it also works with that Tokina zoom fisheye - a version without lens shade.

As a result, your spherical panorama has 325% of your sensor resolution with just 4 shots, while in traditional way (shooting fully circular photos with 3 shots) you get just around 125% of sensor resolution.

I have doubts whether it's going to work on APS-C Canon cameras, due to 1.6x crop, as you won't get 180° horizontal coverage at 8 mm. On Sony with 1.5x crop the 8-15L @8mm works just right.

Thanks for your explanation, and link (which was quite extensive). I assume you shoot all of your spherical panos with 4 photos, but wonder if you ever want more resolution and use other setups with more photos?

 

[VORON]

your technique sounds interesting. I will try it also. Maybe I will fix the nut on the floor with my foot so that I can stabilize the cam at its NPP by spanning the nylon thread.

I would respectfully disagree. If holding the end of your thread with foot, you won't ensure the fully vertical position of the thread, and your camera will float freely in random direction.

The entire idea is that gravity ensures constant position of the lens' nodal point. In order to achieve this, the nut shall not lay on the ground, but very slightly brush it. I must admit, it's a bit difficult, when a wind is present.

I assume you shoot all of your spherical panos with 4 photos, but wonder if you ever want more resolution and use other setups with more photos?

The 8-15L is my third fisheye lens after Peleng 8mm and Sigma 8mm, and I started shooting my panoramas at 12 mm just recently. Before that I was getting just 20-25 MP at 8 mm, and even less with EOS 5D in 2012-2013. So 78 MP already looks extremely detailed to me.

No, I haven't tried to achieve even more resolution, and if I wanted that, I would simply get the 2nd hand Sony A7R - it would make 120 MP panoramas at 12 mm. Now I'm planning to downgrade my panorama setup a little with Samyang 7.5 mm Fisheye - on Sony APS-C camera it's equal to 12 mm FF, and again it makes 80 MP panoramas with just 500 g camera setup.

BTW, many of my pano shots in full resolution can be looked at here: https://goo.gl/photos/Mi3Pxyn2TnhkSiKGA

 

[usern4cr]

BTW, many of my pano shots in full resolution can be looked at here: https://goo.gl/photos/Mi3Pxyn2TnhkSiKGA
[/QUOTE]
That's a lot of spherical panos (well done)! I didn't notice any black portions that you previously mentioned can occur where there is no image coverage. Did you patch them up, or something else?