Patent: Further breakdown of Canon’s upcoming IBIS technology

unfocused

EOS 5D SR
Jul 20, 2010
4,925
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Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
There is considerable space between the belief that IBIS is useless and the conviction that it could be a huge win, and I suspect quite a few of us are somewhere in the middle...I have IS lenses and I use and value them. So for, me IBIS might be nice, but it would be something short of a huge win.
Yes.

Unfortunately, it is a sign of the times we live in and the nature of internet boards that many people would rather argue than discuss a topic.

I do appreciate those who took the time to provide respectful answers to my question. I hoped that by asking for input, I would get some different perspectives that would allow me and others to make an informed decision about the value of IBIS or more accurately, about the advantages of waiting until Canon implements the feature.

We all have to make our own decisions. Mine is that it is not such a useful feature to me to compel me to wait for it's implementation before purchasing an R camera.
 

Quarkcharmed

EOS 5DMkIV
Feb 14, 2018
469
321
Australia
www.michaelborisenko.com
Quarkcharmed: I'm not questioning the value of IS in general. I use it routinely. Question was about the value of in-body over in-lens.
Well to me it has a value in making my non-IS L lenses stabilised. Making the 24-70 f2.8 L a stabilised one will tremendously increase its usability.
Also if IBIS combined with lens IS adds a stop or two to overall stabilisation, it's a great thing to have for long zoom lenses.
 
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venusFivePhotoStudio

I'm New Here
Aug 4, 2018
16
19
Serious Question: Can someone please explain why they care about IBIS?

Video: It makes sense if you shoot video, as a lens-based stabilization system is designed to work only when the shutter button is pressed and not continuously.
Old or Cheap Lenses: For those who don't want to pay to have stabilization in their lenses or have lenses that don't come with stabilization.

So many people talk as thought it is a "must have" and I'm trying to figure out why.

For context, I am primarily a stills shooter. About half of my work is sports, and about half of my hobby shooting is birds in flight. No point in stabilization in those cases.
Most of my other work and hobby shooting involves people, often at events with limited light. With today's stabilized lenses, I can hand hold the camera and lens down to the point where motion blur from the subject is going to be a bigger detriment than shutter speed. So, no point in additional stabilization in those cases.

What am I missing?

No feature is a musthave. We could very well shoot with cameras from 2000, but IBIS it wold be a nice feature, besides working with older lenses it would work with 28-70 f2.0. I want "to pay to hae stabilisation" for my lenses but sometimes it's just not possible. Plus it might add to the IS efficiency of the lens.
 
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addola

Sold my soul for a flippy screen
Nov 16, 2015
62
25
We all have to make our own decisions. Mine is that it is not such a useful feature to me to compel me to wait for it's implementation before purchasing an R camera.
Of course! But it's good to buy a Canon R camera without IBIS knowing that in the future you can upgrade and use the lenses you bought for it in a body that has IBIS.

Other than that, there's not much I can add to what everyone is saying.
 

lightthief

EOS T7i
Feb 23, 2014
73
5
Long ago i read someones theory about the effect an IS-system could have: The moving lenses of the IS can, depending on the positions the are, produce cat eyes in the bokeh. I do not know anything about optics, but i think, if that theory is right, IBIS will help here to avoid those cat eyes in the bokeh.

Have a nice day
LT
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,124
1,642
Canada
AF. Nice to have, and if you don't want it, turn it off.
OS. Nice to have, and if you don't want it, turn it off.
Bracketing. Nice to have, and if you don't want it, turn it off.
Flicker detection. Nice to have, and if you don't want it, turn it off.
and so on, and so on, and so on......

What is so different about IBIS? Another tool in the toolbox, and if you don't want it, turn it off.
 

amorse

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 26, 2017
462
456
www.flickr.com
Yes.

Unfortunately, it is a sign of the times we live in and the nature of internet boards that many people would rather argue than discuss a topic.

I do appreciate those who took the time to provide respectful answers to my question. I hoped that by asking for input, I would get some different perspectives that would allow me and others to make an informed decision about the value of IBIS or more accurately, about the advantages of waiting until Canon implements the feature.

We all have to make our own decisions. Mine is that it is not such a useful feature to me to compel me to wait for it's implementation before purchasing an R camera.
That really is the challenge - there's competition in the review space for cameras (seems everyone's a youtube reviewer now), and many of the reviews centre on the same topics through drawing inspiration from other reviewers, eventually creating an echo chamber because all the consumers of those reviews are watching many of the review outlets. People end up latching on to whatever feature or issue is raised in those reviews and make it paramount in their minds because it's been reaffirmed by several outlets. All of a sudden any camera without x feature is a failure and will be lambasted - the assumption is that everyone has the same needs and anyone who doesn't see that isn't looking. It becomes an exercise in human psychology more so than a discussion of the merits or downfalls of a feature/advancement.

In that sort of environment, it isn't uncommon for people to forget which features are actually core to their use case - which features are fundamental needs for their use. For me, I always try to focus on which things I use a lot, which things I think would improve my use, and which things I use a little. IBIS is one of those I think would be helpful, but not groundbreaking for my use. I know for me, some of the things I won't skimp on include weather sealing, reasonably good battery performance, ease of access to controls, lenses with filter threads, image quality/low light performance, and reliability (especially in cold weather). If I had to give up any of that for the hot-button issues in reviews (i.e. IBIS, eye-detect, EVFs, zebras, etc.) that's going to be a hard no from me.
 

bokehmon22

EOS RP
Oct 31, 2016
356
186
Serious Question: Can someone please explain why they care about IBIS?

Video: It makes sense if you shoot video, as a lens-based stabilization system is designed to work only when the shutter button is pressed and not continuously.
Old or Cheap Lenses: For those who don't want to pay to have stabilization in their lenses or have lenses that don't come with stabilization.

So many people talk as thought it is a "must have" and I'm trying to figure out why.

For context, I am primarily a stills shooter. About half of my work is sports, and about half of my hobby shooting is birds in flight. No point in stabilization in those cases.
Most of my other work and hobby shooting involves people, often at events with limited light. With today's stabilized lenses, I can hand hold the camera and lens down to the point where motion blur from the subject is going to be a bigger detriment than shutter speed. So, no point in additional stabilization in those cases.

What am I missing?
I shoot primarily stills (wedding) and IBIS breathes new life into lens without IS (Canon 24-70 2.8 II, Sigma Art lens, etc) both for video and stills especially if it can works in tandem with lens IS to provide additional IS.

I can handhold a Canon 24-70 II on Panasonic S1 for 2 seconds in places that ban tripods (cathedrals, Disneyland, etc). If you forgot your tripod, it isn't a big deal. Even newer lens like the 85 1.2 RF & 28-70 F2 doesn't have IS.

Like all features coming out with new camera (better EVF, dual card slot, 20 fps, IBIS, eyeAF, high ISO performance), it depends on your style of shoots. Landscape photographer won't care about eyeAF and portrait photographer won't care about 20 FPS if all they do is posed shot.

Since ALL manufacturer has IBIS and eyeAF, I would want feature parity even if I don't utilize it now. I just want the best bang for the buck. If you don't want/need all these new features, you can turn it off or don't upgrade.
 
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stevelee

FT-QL
Jul 6, 2017
1,223
264
Davidson, NC
Since I haven't had IBIS in a DSLR, I have not felt need for it. I find the IS in my lenses to be more than adequate for what I shoot. I walk around taking hand-held pictures with my 100–400mm II, and they look great. I wouldn't reject buying a camera because it had IBIS, but neither would I spend a bunch of extra money to buy one with it. But it is fine with me if other folks want to do that. There are plenty of cameras with it on the market today, and there have been for some years. If it is something I thought essential or even particularly helpful to me, I would have bought one of those by now.
 

unfocused

EOS 5D SR
Jul 20, 2010
4,925
1,236
66
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
AF. Nice to have, and if you don't want it, turn it off.
OS. Nice to have, and if you don't want it, turn it off.
Bracketing. Nice to have, and if you don't want it, turn it off.
Flicker detection. Nice to have, and if you don't want it, turn it off.
and so on, and so on, and so on......

What is so different about IBIS? Another tool in the toolbox, and if you don't want it, turn it off.
Don, I'm kind of surprised at you. This sort of flippant response seems out of character.

No one is suggesting they don't want IBIS. I certainly never said that. There is world of difference between your suggestion that people can simply "turn off" a feature and having a discussion as to whether or not a feature is so valuable that it warrants rejection of a product because it does not offer that feature.

If you want an analogy, a much better one is dual card slots. Some people feel so strongly about dual card slots that they will reject any camera that does not have two slots. Others see it as a nice feature, but not essential to their purchase decision.

With IBIS, which is a new feature to Canon, a discussion of the pros and cons can help people make their own decisions.

Your response is simplistic and derisive and seems like an attempt to shut down the conversation by suggesting that even asking the question is stupid.
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,124
1,642
Canada
Don, I'm kind of surprised at you. This sort of flippant response seems out of character.

No one is suggesting they don't want IBIS. I certainly never said that. There is world of difference between your suggestion that people can simply "turn off" a feature and having a discussion as to whether or not a feature is so valuable that it warrants rejection of a product because it does not offer that feature.

If you want an analogy, a much better one is dual card slots. Some people feel so strongly about dual card slots that they will reject any camera that does not have two slots. Others see it as a nice feature, but not essential to their purchase decision.

With IBIS, which is a new feature to Canon, a discussion of the pros and cons can help people make their own decisions.

Your response is simplistic and derisive and seems like an attempt to shut down the conversation by suggesting that even asking the question is stupid.
When I go back and re-read it, it is flippant.

We are at the start of a transition in digital photography. Up to this point cameras tried as best as they could to record what happened on the sensor and we left complex processing until later. IBIS is one of the hallmarks of the move to computational photography. With greatly improved computational power in cameras, we can start to do neat software tricks, the most memorable is sub pixel sensor shifting in order o build up high megapixel images. It also allows one to use a combination of optical and IBIS stabilization to achieve greater levels than either system alone.

I think that IBIS will become a "must-have" feature in mirrorless Canon cameras. This is NOT a video feature, despite some people's claims, any more than OS is a video feature. I had the opportunity to play with the latest OLY with a combo of OS and IBIS. You can shoot at ridiculously long shutter speeds!

I do not have an R series camera yet, but when they come out with an IBIS one, that's the time when I start paying close attention.
 

shutterlag

EOS T7i
Mar 5, 2013
64
6
Serious Question: Can someone please explain why they care about IBIS?

Video: It makes sense if you shoot video, as a lens-based stabilization system is designed to work only when the shutter button is pressed and not continuously.
Old or Cheap Lenses: For those who don't want to pay to have stabilization in their lenses or have lenses that don't come with stabilization.

So many people talk as thought it is a "must have" and I'm trying to figure out why.

For context, I am primarily a stills shooter. About half of my work is sports, and about half of my hobby shooting is birds in flight. No point in stabilization in those cases.
Most of my other work and hobby shooting involves people, often at events with limited light. With today's stabilized lenses, I can hand hold the camera and lens down to the point where motion blur from the subject is going to be a bigger detriment than shutter speed. So, no point in additional stabilization in those cases.

What am I missing?

Honestly you're missing a lot here...

The E-M1X can do a 10 second exposure hand-held. That may not be important to you, but it sure is useful to many others, esp. if they don't want to carry a tripod. Combine the 12-100mm Oly + E-M1x and it gives you 7.5 stops, and that's not an exaggeration.

You say "Old and Cheap" lenses, like those are the only ones lacking OS, but that is not even remotely the case. Sigma is cranking out Art lenses left and right with no stabilization. The RF 50mm F1.2 is $2100 and has no OS.

You're spot on, for action, IBIS isn't a big thing, because you're already shooting a subject in motion, so you're already forced to a high shutter/ISO. For basically everything else, it matters.
 
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raptor3x

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 26, 2012
553
44
State College, PA
whumber.com
What am I missing?
Not too much, it's less useful than gets pushed in general and really shines mostly in edge cases. For your case of shooting sports and BIF it doesn't really help you at all. That said, even images at higher shutter speeds will be sharper with IBIS/OIS than with no stabilization unless you start getting above 1/1000s. One example of a corner case where it can be really useful is when you're shooting indoors with a fast lens in low light but the scene has reasonably high dynamic range. The shot below, for instance, could have been done at a lower shutter speed using a higher ISO setting but you very quickly start to lose either highlights or the shadows start to get too noisy.
185091


This was done with an Olympus E-M1ii and would have been easier to pull off with a FF sensor, but the same general idea applies regardless of format. The other big benefit of IBIS over OIS is that you get rotational stabilization along the optical axis and better correction of translation camera perturbations (although hybrid OIS systems like in the 100L do a good job with that as well). The best case though is still always going to be OIS + IBIS as they work in fairly complementary ways and do a good job of covering each other's weaknesses. Hopefully Canon can make it work so that the OIS + IBIS system works with as many lenses as possible.
 

Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
Mar 25, 2011
15,467
706
Yes.

Unfortunately, it is a sign of the times we live in and the nature of internet boards that many people would rather argue than discuss a topic.

I do appreciate those who took the time to provide respectful answers to my question. I hoped that by asking for input, I would get some different perspectives that would allow me and others to make an informed decision about the value of IBIS or more accurately, about the advantages of waiting until Canon implements the feature.

We all have to make our own decisions. Mine is that it is not such a useful feature to me to compel me to wait for it's implementation before purchasing an R camera.
I certainly didn't. But, I've found that my images with my R tend to show more vibration effects than my 5D MK IV. I think that its just the lighter camera with a heavy lens, as well as the adapter causing more imbalance. Thats led me to rethink the need for IS with lenses that are wider like my 24-70L. I use a fast shutter speed and things are fine, but I struggle when light is low and I'm at 1/30 sec where I do fine with my MK IV.

I just purchased a grip for my R, so that may help stabilize the camera, its too soon to tell. A family wedding next week might be a chance to find out.
 

kaptainkatsu

1DX Mark II
Sep 29, 2015
166
62
I primarily want IBIS for video but since the upcoming 15-35 rf has IS, its less of a concern for me. I purchased a 16-35 f4 IS over the 16-35 f2.8 III because of IS. Also having a RF 24-70 f2.8 with IS will be real nice for all of us waiting for IS in that focal length (which honestly I hate that zoom range but I own it because I need it for a lot of work I do.)
 
Feb 17, 2019
5
3
Watch this video a few seconds before 9:26 and when it gets to that time, you'll instantly see the difference. IS Video Difference I have a number of Canon lenses w/o IS. It would be much more cost effective to get a Canon body with IBIS than to spend extra money on a lens that has IS over a lens that doesn't.