Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Jan 29, 2011
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Keith_Reeder said:
dak723 said:
Yes, they do. No argument there.

Argument here, though.

Let's say instead that at any given state of the art, and assuming all other things technological being equal, FF will out-IQ crop: but new crop sensors unquestionably monster old FF sensors in IQ terms.

It is not axiomatic that any FF sensor will beat any crop sensor. Not even close to true.

However the physics of the thing, dof etc, are hard baked and whilst I have been very vocal in saying many times people can't differentiate between one setup and another, there is no doubt that some looks can only be achieved via sensor size die to lens selection limitations. If there isn't an equivalent option then there is nothing to be done.

I remember a picture by Gregory Heisler of Rudy Giuliani where he chose to use a Sinar 8x10 with a 156mm f5.6 lens because it gave him more dof control than an almost equivalent 135 format 'ff' DSLR with a TS-E24, the larger format had narrower dof. He could not take that image as he wanted with a crop camera, nor even a ff dslr, he had to go up in sensor size.
 
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K

Jan 29, 2015
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

neuroanatomist said:
K said:
the 6D2 which is a turd

K said:
See, I provide reasonable, measured, and balanced opinions and views.

Yeah, sure you do. ::)


Anyone who follows your posts can only conclude Canon is perfection in every way.

Fortunately, people live in reality.

I do hope you're on the Canon payroll. I respect a paid shill more, then someone who does it for free. Either is dishonest, at lease the former has a legit reason to do it....


--->
 
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

K said:
neuroanatomist said:
The fact that Nikon had to cut the prices so drastically is a fair indicator of how unsuccessful that attempt turned out.


Laughable to say the least. Let's apply your own standards. Do you sit on the board at Nikon? Are you in the executive meetings? No. You're a nobody and as a result you have zero authority to speak on the motives of Nikon for anything related to product intention and pricing. See how that works? Live by the sword, die by it.

Next,

This camera is from 2014, you can look at the pricing history - it doesn't follow any kind of abnormal path to indicate that all of a sudden the camera was a flop and needed a price reduction to make up for it as you have everyone believe.

Next,

I'm not here to defend Nikon or the D750 as you would try to frame this as - I'm merely pointing out it is a better specced and better value camera than Canon's crappy 6D line. Hey, at entry FF ($2,000ish) Canon is awful. But at $3,300 and above, they are superior to Nikon dollar for dollar. See, I provide reasonable, measured, and balanced opinions and views. Not pro-Canon fanaticism and fan-boyism that defends Canon as perfect, awesome, the greatest in every way, shape and form and free from fault of any kind.

Thing is K, there are people on here who want to buy the 6D Mk2 because they see it as right for them. Now you may not agree with that, and that is fine. But the people who do want this camera, and not a Nikon, for whatever reason, will buy it.

It doesn't matter if their is no UHD, no Dual Card Slot, there are people who are looking to replace equipment, or maybe start in the FF market, that will buy this camera, be happy with their decision and happy with their purchase.

Now that we pretty much know the specification of this body, and that you are not happy with it, you should start looking for something you are happy with, which clearly isn't the 6DMk2.

I am one of those that will buy the 6D Mk2, and I know I will be happy with it. Perhaps you will be better, in the short term, looking at the new Sony or Nikon products that may get released this year, we will have to see what the pricing and features of those new bodies are, and if the cost of replacing glass isn't prohibitive.
 
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May 11, 2017
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

K said:
I'm not here to defend Nikon or the D750 as you would try to frame this as - I'm merely pointing out it is a better specced and better value camera than Canon's crappy 6D line. Hey, at entry FF ($2,000ish) Canon is awful. But at $3,300 and above, they are superior to Nikon dollar for dollar. See, I provide reasonable, measured, and balanced opinions and views. Not pro-Canon fanaticism and fan-boyism that defends Canon as perfect, awesome, the greatest in every way, shape and form and free from fault of any kind.

You may not be defending Nikon, but you are advising people to buy into the Nikon system even though Canon has superior lenses and Canon cameras are a better buy except at the entry level. So, what about the idea that several people have of buying a 5DIII, either new or used?
 
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unfocused

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Jul 20, 2010
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Antono Refa said:
Hope that makes my point clear.

Clear as mud. I get the sense you are trying to argue a point, but I'm not sure what the point is. Plus, I'm not sure why you are arguing, since I'm not disagreeing with your original point, just illustrating my own use and how it is irrelevant to the 6D, which is not designed for sports or action shooters.

unfocused said:
and the cost for a CFast card in that category is more than I want to spend. But, that's the rub, I'm using a 1DX II and shooting sports at 12 fps. When the CFast card fills, I let it spill over to the CF card until the action pauses and then change out the CFast card.

Antono Refa said:
Sounds like you're getting way less breathing time than I would expect.

Possibly because you don't shoot sports. I don't know. But, my personal working style is to shoot a formatted CFast card until it fills, let things spill over to the CF card and then, when there is a pause in the action I switch out the CFast with a new card. That way, I don't run the risk of hitting the limit of the card midway through an action sequence, while at the same time using the CFast for most of the action.
 
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

I find it funny, that many people complain about no 4K but on the other side even more seem to have a need to "defend" Canon for not implementing it.

If it's a pure marketing move, then it raises the question why not implement a feature that doesn't cost that much more and is on the height of technology which already has moved on further... just to protect "higher" product lines? I mean... if it's really not that much of a deal to implement it, that's just a stupid move.

If that is wrong and it would cost a significant amount of money to implement 4K (better heat dissipation capabilities, more CPU power etc), then I can see why they didn't implement it - although one might bring up the price point and that the margin for Canon is definitely high enough to make a bargain.

Well, as it seems it has not been implemented for whatever reasons and I assume a lot have expected it and the rant about it as well. Still a great camera, but again - features that don't cost a lot (or are as easy implemented as being left out) should come to any camera body, because that's what is considered state of the art in terms of today's standard. If marketing is about cutting the standard down to protect overprized lines that offer such features, then it would just suck ;)

As for me, personally, I don't need 4K. I haven't shot alot of video as of late. What bothers me more is if there will be AFMA (have used it 2-3 times on my 70D) and the question if I shouldn't wait for an EVF FF camera, because despite the downsides an EVF really helps in difficult lighting situations and having everything there without haveing to look at a display in live view that doesn't only use more battery (okay, the EVF does ALWAYS use a bit of that) but is also harder to see in bright sunlight.
 
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

K said:
They just had a sale on the D750, and most retailers were sold out and on backorder. Sure, the D750 is a major flop...

So, did you buy one? Or are you still just full of talk?

K said:
Zealots and fanatics ... cannot be reasoned with. Up is down, and down is up. They see whatever they want.

The ironing tastes delicious.
 
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magarity

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Feb 14, 2017
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

intrigue.photography said:
One card slot on a $2k camera is a deal killer for me. :eek:
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. SDXC come in up to 512GB in a single card. I know event photographers can take a lot of pictures in a day but nobody's finger can fill a half TB without a break.
 
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Jul 21, 2010
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

BillB said:
Skywise said:
With DPAF -- Does this mean the 6D2 will do active autofocusing during video like the 80D?

Don't know for sure, but my guess is that it will have it, and that will make quite a few people happy.

"Yes, people who shoot video in the stone age, aka 1080p, will be very happy."

Sincerely,

'K'


Mammoth-Hunters-79768.gif
 
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Mar 26, 2014
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

unfocused said:
Antono Refa said:
Hope that makes my point clear.

Clear as mud. I get the sense you are trying to argue a point, but I'm not sure what the point is.

My point is: assuming memory cards (from reputable companies, etc) are reliable, and considering available memory card sizes, one would have a pause in action which

1) would be long enough to allow the photographer to switch cards

2) would happen before the card is full

allowing the photographer to work with just one memory card slot. This means dual slots are required only if you think failure of a single memory card is a real possibility.

My understanding is you look for that pause after photos have spilled over to the CF card. My (unrealistic?) expectation is for you to be able to find one before photos spill over to the CF card.
 
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Jul 28, 2015
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Yasko said:
I find it funny, that many people complain about no 4K but on the other side even more seem to have a need to "defend" Canon for not implementing it.

I for one am not defending them, I am simply rationalising why they did not

Yasko said:
If it's a pure marketing move, then it raises the question why not implement a feature that doesn't cost that much more and is on the height of technology which already has moved on further... just to protect "higher" product lines? I mean... if it's really not that much of a deal to implement it, that's just a stupid move.

If that is wrong and it would cost a significant amount of money to implement 4K (better heat dissipation capabilities, more CPU power etc), then I can see why they didn't implement it - although one might bring up the price point and that the margin for Canon is definitely high enough to make a bargain.

Your comment makes sense if anyone (just anyone) makes a FF 4k camera. No-one does. Rationalise that....


Yasko said:
Well, as it seems it has not been implemented for whatever reasons and I assume a lot have expected it and the rant about it as well.
Still a great camera, but again - features that don't cost a lot (or are as easy implemented as being left out) should come to any camera body, because that's what is considered state of the art in terms of today's standard. If marketing is about cutting the standard down to protect overprized lines that offer such features, then it would just suck ;)

What 'standard'? The vocal minority expect Canon to install 4k to a camera, and cut their margins in doing so, so it can challenge a competitor that doesn't even exist!!
Please explain that to me.
 
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ahsanford

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Aug 16, 2012
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

magarity said:
intrigue.photography said:
One card slot on a $2k camera is a deal killer for me. :eek:
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. SDXC come in up to 512GB in a single card. I know event photographers can take a lot of pictures in a day but nobody's finger can fill a half TB without a break.

Far be it from me to defend a position I don't care about as I am no pro and I never use both slots on my 5D3, but...

I believe the argument for two cards is that a single card slot camera -- either through a camera problem or much more likely a card failure -- could lose an entire day's work that cannot be reshot (weddings immediately come to mind). Lawsuits, scorched earth bridezilla, and all that a failed card could bring about might be insured against with second card slot on board.

In that sense, with a single slot 6D2, Canon is effectively positioning 'data peace of mind' as a premium feature and not a responsibility to deliver to its customers. Somewhere in the product line, Canon logically needs to pick where you get one vs. where you get two. Many would argue (not necessarily me) that a $2k rig should be above the single card relegation line.

You might call it nerfing or 'product portfolio by deliberate feature omission', but Canon sees it as a way to keep its costs down / margins up. That's business.

I won't lose a wink of sleep over this, but that's my guess why some folks are bent out of shape at this rumor. In short, their priorities are not ours. Let them stew about this injustice, I say ::) -- it's a free internet.

- A
 
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

K, it seems pretty clear that you would choose the D750 over the 6DII if both were placed in front of you. Fair enough. I say, go for it, and enjoy taking photographs and videos. Maybe just stop tossing out assumptions and pejoratives at those who have a different opinion, eh?

You've compared the specs of the D750 and the (rumored) specs of the 6DII and concluded that the D750 from 2014 is comparable or even superior, and with a lower price, is the no-brainer choice, which makes Canon look foolish and out-of-touch.

You're entitled to your opinion.

I wonder, though, if you've ever used DPAF in conjunction with an articulating touch screen. For how quickly you dismissed those features in your comparison, my guess is that the answer is no. For many like me, they are significant and compelling features that we don't want to give up. It was a lack of these two features that caused me to wait for a 6DII instead of getting the 6D. I'm glad I did, because now Canon has delivered pretty much everything I want in an entry-level full-frame camera.

Some thoughts on product segmentation and the value proposition:

A few years ago, if you wanted a Canon full-frame camera, you could choose between the 5D series and the 1D series. If you wanted a Nikon full-frame, you could choose between the D800/810 and the D4. Canon saw an opportunity for an entry-level full-frame camera and introduced the 6D. It was widely panned by forum-dwellers and YouTubers for it's weak spec sheet, but it was ultimately a very successful product for Canon.

Nikon introduced the D600 as its response and direct competitor to the 6D. It was widely lauded by forum-dwellers and YouTubers, but it had significant issues and was quickly replaced by the D610. Nikon saw an opportunity to introduce a product positioned between the D610 and D800/810 and came up with the D750.

There was, and still is, no direct product segment in Canon's line-up to compete with the D750.

I was excited by that D750 announcement -- not because I was tempted to switch, but because it was the first full-frame camera with non-fixed LCD, and I knew that if it was successful, we'd probably see one in the 6DII. Thankfully, the D750 was a great camera and was reasonably successful. Quite good news for Canon shooters.

The problem, though, with comparing it to the 6DII is that they are not and never were intended to be direct competitors. You're comparing a 2014 camera...that was positioned in a higher product tier:

D800/810 competes with 5D series
D750 competes with...hmm...nothing
D610 competes with 6D series

I think I get your point, though -- it's about what you get for your money that makes it compelling...to you. Why spend $2K for a 6DII when you could spend less on a D750, or you could buy a used 5DIII?

For me, I see a bunch of good reasons why I'd spend more for the 6DII than less for the D750:

1. I get 45 cross-type AF points instead of 15.
2. I get a fully articulating screen instead of tilt only.
3. I get touch screen instead of no touch screen.
4. I get DPAF over focus hunting.
5. I get Canon colors from the sensor.
6. I get Canon menus and ergonomics.
7. I get Bluetooth and NFC.
8. I keep my L lenses.
9. I get Canon reliability.
10. I get Canon support.

I would not trade the above for an extra card slot or a negligible difference in dynamic range. I would, in fact, pay more than a D750 would cost just to have the above.

Why not a used 5DIII? The DPAF and articulating screen are that important to me. Plus, the 6DII will likely have a better sensor than the 5DIII, and sensor is the only reason I'm moving up from my 70D in the first place.

Simply put, the 6DII is a worthwhile upgrade for me. It has pretty much everything I'm wanting for a body in this tier. Nikon could release a D760 (still a higher-tier product) that's better, or even a D610 successor that's better, and I won't give a hoot because I'll be happily shooting a camera that meets my needs for an amount I was willing to pay.

The above is called a value proposition. This one applies to me and can only be defined by me. Yours is different and can only be defined by you. Just understand that while YOU see the D750 as a better body for less money, others see it very differently. That doesn't make them apologists or fanatics or fools-settling-for-less-at-higher-cost.

Canon's job, as a business, is to get a feel for what the value proposition looks like to as many people as possible in its target market segment, and then build the product (and at a price) that satisfies it. Given it's track record and position in the industry, it seems Canon is particularly good at it.
 
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Jan 29, 2011
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

ahsanford said:
magarity said:
intrigue.photography said:
One card slot on a $2k camera is a deal killer for me. :eek:
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. SDXC come in up to 512GB in a single card. I know event photographers can take a lot of pictures in a day but nobody's finger can fill a half TB without a break.

Far be it from me to defend a position I don't care about as I am no pro and I never use both slots on my 5D3, but...

I believe the argument for two cards is that a single card slot camera -- either through a camera problem or much more likely a card failure -- could lose an entire day's work that cannot be reshot (weddings immediately come to mind). Lawsuits, scorched earth bridezilla, and all that a failed card could bring about might be insured against with second card slot on board.

In that sense, with a single slot 6D2, Canon is effectively positioning 'data peace of mind' as a premium feature and not a responsibility to deliver to its customers. Somewhere in the product line, Canon logically needs to pick where you get one vs. where you get two. Many would argue (not necessarily me) that a $2k rig should be above the single card relegation line.

You might call it nerfing or 'product portfolio by deliberate feature omission', but Canon sees it as a way to keep its costs down / margins up. That's business.

I won't lose a wink of sleep over this, but that's my guess why some folks are bent out of shape at this rumor. In short, their priorities are not ours. Let them stew about this injustice, I say ::) -- it's a free internet.

- A

And I don't.

I believe twin slots is a marketing device designed to ease the move up the range. If it was for the reason of data backup then the slots would be the same and there would be no penalty or feature restriction if you mirror information to both at the same time, i.e. actually make a 'backup'. But that is not how Canon have ever implemented dual card slots, they do it seemingly with more a mind to easing the transition up the range for people with cards from 'lower' specced cameras.

Even the 1DX MkII loses features to it's second slot. Nikon on the other hand do make true dual slot cameras where both slots take the same media and there are no limitations when duplicating, however you can't shoot tethered and to card with a Nikon, something I do regularly.

Canon's implementation of dual slots does not allow for "data peace of mind" and any pro who's contract doesn't limit liability for technical and other 'unforeseeable' issues to costs only is a fool.
 
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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]

Famateur said:
K, it seems pretty clear that you would choose the D750 over the 6DII if both were placed in front of you. Fair enough. I say, go for it, and enjoy taking photographs and videos. Maybe just stop tossing out assumptions and pejoratives at those who have a different opinion, eh?

You've compared the specs of the D750 and the (rumored) specs of the 6DII and concluded that the D750 from 2014 is comparable or even superior, and with a lower price, is the no-brainer choice, which makes Canon look foolish and out-of-touch.

You're entitled to your opinion.

I wonder, though, if you've ever used DPAF in conjunction with an articulating touch screen. For how quickly you dismissed those features in your comparison, my guess is that the answer is no. For many like me, they are significant and compelling features that we don't want to give up. It was a lack of these two features that caused me to wait for a 6DII instead of getting the 6D. I'm glad I did, because now Canon has delivered pretty much everything I want in an entry-level full-frame camera.

Some thoughts on product segmentation and the value proposition:

A few years ago, if you wanted a Canon full-frame camera, you could choose between the 5D series and the 1D series. If you wanted a Nikon full-frame, you could choose between the D800/810 and the D4. Canon saw an opportunity for an entry-level full-frame camera and introduced the 6D. It was widely panned by forum-dwellers and YouTubers for it's weak spec sheet, but it was ultimately a very successful product for Canon.

Nikon introduced the D600 as its response and direct competitor to the 6D. It was widely lauded by forum-dwellers and YouTubers, but it had significant issues and was quickly replaced by the D610. Nikon saw an opportunity to introduce a product positioned between the D610 and D800/810 and came up with the D750.

There was, and still is, no direct product segment in Canon's line-up to compete with the D750.

I was excited by that D750 announcement -- not because I was tempted to switch, but because it was the first full-frame camera with non-fixed LCD, and I knew that if it was successful, we'd probably see one in the 6DII. Thankfully, the D750 was a great camera and was reasonably successful. Quite good news for Canon shooters.

The problem, though, with comparing it to the 6DII is that they are not and never were intended to be direct competitors. You're comparing a 2014 camera...that was positioned in a higher product tier:

D800/810 competes with 5D series
D750 competes with...hmm...nothing
D610 competes with 6D series

I think I get your point, though -- it's about what you get for your money that makes it compelling...to you. Why spend $2K for a 6DII when you could spend less on a D750, or you could buy a used 5DIII?

For me, I see a bunch of good reasons why I'd spend more for the 6DII than less for the D750:

1. I get 45 cross-type AF points instead of 15.
2. I get a fully articulating screen instead of tilt only.
3. I get touch screen instead of no touch screen.
4. I get DPAF over focus hunting.
5. I get Canon colors from the sensor.
6. I get Canon menus and ergonomics.
7. I get Bluetooth and NFC.
8. I keep my L lenses.
9. I get Canon reliability.
10. I get Canon support.

I would not trade the above for an extra card slot or a negligible difference in dynamic range. I would, in fact, pay more than a D750 would cost just to have the above.

Why not a used 5DIII? The DPAF and articulating screen are that important to me. Plus, the 6DII will likely have a better sensor than the 5DIII, and sensor is the only reason I'm moving up from my 70D in the first place.

Simply put, the 6DII is a worthwhile upgrade for me. It has pretty much everything I'm wanting for a body in this tier. Nikon could release a D760 (still a higher-tier product) that's better, or even a D610 successor that's better, and I won't give a hoot because I'll be happily shooting a camera that meets my needs for an amount I was willing to pay.

The above is called a value proposition. This one applies to me and can only be defined by me. Yours is different and can only be defined by you. Just understand that while YOU see the D750 as a better body for less money, others see it very differently. That doesn't make them apologists or fanatics or fools-settling-for-less-at-higher-cost.

Canon's job, as a business, is to get a feel for what the value proposition looks like to as many people as possible in its target market segment, and then build the product (and at a price) that satisfies it. Given it's track record and position in the industry, it seems Canon is particularly good at it.

Nice post. My last (FF) purchase was the 5DMk2, I have 3 L series lenses that I love using. The 17-40 F4L, the 100-400 L and the 85mm F1.2 L. As I have this glass I want to stay Canon. The 6D Mk2 ticks the right boxes for me.

Better AF (45 Cross Points) the 5DMk2 focusing is ho-hum, its pretty poor, even compared to my 30D!
Better Dynamic Range (I hope the 6DMk2 outperforms my 8 year old 5DMk2)
Better ISO noise handling

Tilty screen, erm, well my 700D has that, and i use that as my travel camera which I have a few great EF-S lenses for (the 10-18 is brilliant, nifty fifty of course and the 55-250, much better now with IS).

DPAF, well I might shoot some video, but I hardly ever do. I guess I won't see the benefit of DPAF in stills, unless I use live view to shoot? which I won't if I am not using a tripod. My mostly landscape and architecture subjects don't need super fast focusing or xxx fps anyway.

I want to replace my 5DMk2 mostly because of age, I will still use it of course, but safe in the knowledge I have a capable partner for it. I think the 6DMk2 will become my main body.

Can't wait ;)
 
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