Removing the 5D4's AA filter?

[Diko]

Hi everyone.

Was wondering about it. Having in mind 5DsR I am very inclined to combine the Sigma 50s ART with a sharper 5D4 AA filter-less.

What do you think? Any proposal on an alternative answer would be added. Additional opinions and advises would be also highly appreciated.

Some additional info: General primary body mostly for stills. Wild life, sport, Portraits, Events, low light, time-laps.

The main reason to ask: In the end of this video about 1:23 (5D4 vs 5DsR & 3:50 (5D4 vs Nikon 7200)...

 

[Coldhands]

Not sure if this is technically possible. I could be wrong, but the AA filter is usually integrated into the sensor stack along with UV- and IR-cut filters. Therefore you can't remove one without the others, and you definitely don't want to lose the whole stack. Only solution I can think of is if some aftermarket company produces a sensor stack for the 5D4 that doesn't include AA filter. Seems like it would be an awful lot of aggravation for a tiny improvement in sharpness.

 

[midluk]

You are missing "No, It's there for a purpose!" as an answer.

 

[Mancubus]

You are missing "No, It's there for a purpose!" as an answer.

Exactly, it's there to make our images softer and makes us get enraged, under the old excuse that the filter is there to prevent a "moire" that only bothers a handful of OCD video people.

I'd take moire over softness any day, wish I had a choice about the damn filter.

 

[Diko]

You are missing "No, It's there for a purpose!" as an answer.

Exactly, it's there to make our images softer and makes us get enraged, under the old excuse that the filter is there to prevent a "moire" that only bothers a handful of OCD video people.

I'd take moire over softness any day, wish I had a choice about the damn filter.

Guys, just added your version of the response to the poll.

As for the opinions expressed from you two:

1 / Here is an exemplary video about removing filters from Canon recent bodies... Will further investigate.

2/ I have checked my photos from recent years. I think I can live up with a very very few moire cases.... ;-)

 

[neuroanatomist]

2/ I have checked my photos from recent years. I think I can live up with a very very few moire cases.... ;-)

Just curious...are you checking from recent years' photos taken using camera(s) with or without an AA filter?

 

[wockawocka]

If someone offered this professionally I'd go for it.

 

[IglooEater]

You're lacking the "why the heck would you decide that before the camera even starts shipping, let alone anyone had a chance to try it out" option

 

[StudentOfLight]

You are missing "No, It's there for a purpose!" as an answer.

Exactly, it's there to make our images softer and makes us get enraged, under the old excuse that the filter is there to prevent a "moire" that only bothers a handful of OCD video people.

I'd take moire over softness any day, wish I had a choice about the damn filter.

Take a look at the attached "videos"

 

[Act444]

Ideally it would be nice if the AA filter were adjustable (turned on/off at will) to give the photographer a choice. In applications where moire isn't a concern, the filter does indeed detract from ultimate IQ and can add extra workflow in post (sharpening). However, when dealing with repeating patterns, the AA filter CAN help save a shot...

If there were a variant of the 5D4 without the AA filter, or if the 5D4 didn't have one, I'd be more inclined to upgrade - otherwise, for those of us after the ultimate detail, it looks like the 5DSR is the way to go.

 

[fugu82]

This is commonly done during infrared conversions. Any of the services that do this can replace the removed filters with an IR-blocking filter if you wish. Example:

https://www.lifepixel.com/gear/anti-aliasing-low-pass-filter-removal

 

[Mancubus]

You are missing "No, It's there for a purpose!" as an answer.

Exactly, it's there to make our images softer and makes us get enraged, under the old excuse that the filter is there to prevent a "moire" that only bothers a handful of OCD video people.

I'd take moire over softness any day, wish I had a choice about the damn filter.

Take a look at the attached "videos"

A7R and 5DSR have noticeably more detail than the 5d4. The moire shown in these photos is a minor (very minor) issue that I wouldn't event notice if I wasn't looking for it.

 

[Coldhands]

You are missing "No, It's there for a purpose!" as an answer.

Exactly, it's there to make our images softer and makes us get enraged, under the old excuse that the filter is there to prevent a "moire" that only bothers a handful of OCD video people.

I'd take moire over softness any day, wish I had a choice about the damn filter.

Guys, just added your version of the response to the poll.

As for the opinions expressed from you two:

1 / Here is an exemplary video about removing filters from Canon recent bodies... Will further investigate.

2/ I have checked my photos from recent years. I think I can live up with a very very few moire cases.... ;-)

Thanks for the video. Informative, if somewhat cringe-worthy. If you're willing to do this to your own brand-new three-and-a-half thousand dollar/pound/euro camera, then you're a braver person than I!

Best of luck.

 

[StudentOfLight]

You are missing "No, It's there for a purpose!" as an answer.

Exactly, it's there to make our images softer and makes us get enraged, under the old excuse that the filter is there to prevent a "moire" that only bothers a handful of OCD video people.

I'd take moire over softness any day, wish I had a choice about the damn filter.

Take a look at the attached "videos"

A7R and 5DSR have noticeably more detail than the 5d4. The moire shown in these photos is a minor (very minor) issue that I wouldn't event notice if I wasn't looking for it.

I never said they did not offer more detail. My point was that it is not only relevant to OCD video people, the fact is that it's actually in photos too.

If you aren't looking close enough to notice the moire then you aren't looking close enough to notice the extra detail either.

 

[Diko]

You're lacking the "why the heck would you decide that before the camera even starts shipping, let alone anyone had a chance to try it out" option

Go check the video from my first post.

2/ I have checked my photos from recent years. I think I can live up with a very very few moire cases.... ;-)

Just curious...are you checking from recent years' photos taken using camera(s) with or without an AA filter?

With... but actually IMHO not the point. I was checking ONLY for patterns that would cause moire.

I wonder really how strong is this moire of the DsR in real everyday situation from the second sample, for which I greatly thank to StudentOfLight.

I also added then removed the brave-not enough answer in the poll, cause I am asking for the ideal case. Most people would go with it and leave no impression about their attitude towards AA filters.

 

[Act444]

FWIW, I did a RAW comparison with 5D4 vs 5D3 files that DPReview supplied with their studio scene in Canon's new DPP 4.5...the 5D4 images are noticeably softer AT THE PIXEL LEVEL than the 5D3, but hold a slight edge on detail due to the megapixel difference between the two cameras. It even seems to be slightly softer than the 1DX II files. I'm assuming the AA filter strength has been increased in the new generation of Canon cameras (at least the ones with 4K video)?

Reaffirms my decision to go straight for the 5DS R...

 

[privatebydesign]

At what aperture?

 

[Act444]

At what aperture?

According to the EXIF. both cameras were shot with the 85 1.8 at f5.6, 1/40s (on tripod I assume). Manual focus.

 

[Mancubus]

FWIW, I did a RAW comparison with 5D4 vs 5D3 files that DPReview supplied with their studio scene in Canon's new DPP 4.5...the 5D4 images are noticeably softer AT THE PIXEL LEVEL than the 5D3, but hold a slight edge on detail due to the megapixel difference between the two cameras. It even seems to be slightly softer than the 1DX II files. I'm assuming the AA filter strength has been increased in the new generation of Canon cameras (at least the ones with 4K video)?

Reaffirms my decision to go straight for the 5DS R...

That would be a deal breaker for me. I'm going to wait a little and then look more real application reviews and download raw files.

If the 5d4 isn't at least as sharp as the 5d3, I'll probably give it a pass since the DPRaw is probably not as good as it seems either.

The 5DSR seems awesome, but I take lots of photos and really don't want to deal with 50mp files. 20-30mp and no AA filter would have been just perfect, I'm really afraid that they will f**k this up with soft images (like the 7d2)

 

[Diko]

That would be a deal breaker for me. I'm going to wait a little and then look more real application reviews and download raw files.

If the 5d4 isn't at least as sharp as the 5d3, I'll probably give it a pass since the DPRaw is probably not as good as it seems either.

Would that mean that you wouldn't risk the scenario, where you buy 5D4 and in 6 month after few success stories of removing the AA filter, you wouldn't do it yourself?

...I'm assuming the AA filter strength has been increased in the new generation of Canon cameras (at least the ones with 4K video)?

Thanks for the test.


Added: "Yes, when the warranty has ended." answer to the poll.