Review 2015 "Dumping Canon & Nikon"

Orangutan said:
distant.star said:
.
"This is the first time that I've seen people in droves dumping Canon and Nikon, like LOYAL people..."

We'll have to wait for the sales reports: anecdotes about what someone's brother's sister's cousin bought don't constitute meaningful data.

These are not hearsay reports. These folks run a large retail camera store. When they say people are bringing in equipment and selling it, they're reporting business fact. Also, I'm not aware of any reports published on used equipment sales/trades.
 
Upvote 0
Mar 27, 2014
121
0
I saw that video yesterday.
Generally I like camerastore tv. These guys have the perspektive of salesmen.
When they say that it was a boring year, because almost everything seem to stand still and (exept Sony) nobody is really innovating, I just don't care.

That a lot of people are handing Canon and Nikon gear in to switch to Sony is understandable.
If I wouldn't do wildlife and bird photography and just do the 'usual' street and travel photography things, I would probably switch too. So far I haven't seen a single serious wildlife or sports photographer with a Sony mirrorless using telephoto lenses.
 
Upvote 0

LSXPhotog

Automotive, Commercial, & Motorsports
CR Pro
Apr 2, 2015
787
980
Tampa, FL
www.diossiphotography.com
You either own a camera to make a living, or you own one for fun. If I didn't make a living with my gear, I'd probably consider switching or at least trying a mirrorless body for photos. I just don't see how dumping cash into a new camera system would benefit my work, business, company, or reputation. God forbid I ever reach a point that I'm stale with my work and no longer interested. I care to invest in better product for clients, yes, but that is better achieved with more comprehensive lighting or put back into my business to grow.

I don't think anyone can say a mirrorless system isn't professional at this point, but I personally think the switch has no benefit to me.

The TCS show is great and they generally tell it how it is. But they also speak for a very small market in Alberta, Canada based on sales in the store and through communication to their industry friends. I still don't down a mad exodus from SLR, as most of the industry is consumer.
 
Upvote 0
Jan 29, 2011
10,675
6,121
distant.star said:
Orangutan said:
distant.star said:
.
"This is the first time that I've seen people in droves dumping Canon and Nikon, like LOYAL people..."

We'll have to wait for the sales reports: anecdotes about what someone's brother's sister's cousin bought don't constitute meaningful data.

These are not hearsay reports. These folks run a large retail camera store. When they say people are bringing in equipment and selling it, they're reporting business fact. Also, I'm not aware of any reports published on used equipment sales/trades.

Funnily enough I have an anecdote. I was talking to a photographer tonight, he shoots with a 5D MkIII, anyway he was at our local camera store last week and bought a secondhand Sony A7SII, he was offered it as a used return for $400 off, he thought about it and bought it. Anyway, he isn't selling the 5D MkIII at this point he intends to use the Sony as a "less serious tool", but as interesting to me was the fact that somebody else bought that Sony for full retail and took it back after less than a week saying they absolutely hated it, and wee prepared to lose money doing it.
 
Upvote 0

tomscott

Photographer & Graphic Designer
I have to agree with most comments.

If I didn't need my DSLR for work I would certainly look to purchase one of the A7 cameras. I was an early adopter and bought a NEX5N and like it, but it does nothing more than a couple of family snaps. I shoot with big teles a lot and Mirrorless just isn't geared up for it. The Sony stuff is amazing but the Canon stuff is still Damn good and lenses there is no comparison.

Its all about selecting the right tool for the job and from a professional standpoint the Sony stuff just isn't there yet give it some time... that sensor in a serious all round camera like the 5D would be an insane camera.
 
Upvote 0
Mar 2, 2012
3,187
542
privatebydesign said:
but as interesting to me was the fact that somebody else bought that Sony for full retail and took it back after less than a week saying they absolutely hated it, and wee prepared to lose money doing it.

I bought an A7R2 with a reasonably high expectation I'd sell it at a loss soon after. Fortunately those things about it I dislike are things I can live with and I've kept it.
 
Upvote 0

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,246
1,939
Canada
I love anecdotal evidence...... you can always find something to justify any point of view.

For instance, I went into my local camera store to get a memory card and there were 3 different ladies buying Nikon D5300 cameras..... this proves that Nikon is the sales leader and mirrorless is dead!.

They did not have the memory card in stock and so they ordered it for me.....

When I went to pick it up there was a guy buying a 70D and another buying a 6Ti... This proves that now Canon has overtaken Nikon in sales and the two days are aggregate proof that FF camera sales are dead.
 
Upvote 0
Mar 2, 2012
3,187
542
dilbert said:
3kramd5 said:
...
I bought an A7R2 with a reasonably high expectation I'd sell it at a loss soon after. Fortunately those things about it I dislike are things I can live with and I've kept it.

What do you dislike about it?

It's mainly the controls/UI.
1) I struggle significantly selecting focus points; the camera is very prone to changing menus while I'm trying to toggle across the AF spots. I would much prefer a dedicated control pad which does nothing else. If I am shooting anything unpredictable, I use canon DSLRs. If I'm shooting studio, landscapes, etc., I use the a7.

2) It annoys me how it locks out certain functions, such the viewfinder magnification if I haven't specifically enabled manual focus, or manual focus via the lens ring with native glass if I haven't specifically enabled manual focus. I like to use a combination sometimes (AF to get close, MF to fine tune). That's a no-go with native e-mount AF glass.

3) It has a strange propensity to open up the menu somewhere other than where I'd left it. Since I rarely enter the menu other than to format the card or disable airplane mode / transfer photos to my smartphone, it's not a huge deal.

4) It's absurdly slow reviewing photos, particularly zooming (regardless of what quality setting I've selected for display).

There are other things I'm sure, but those are the ones that immediately came to mind. 1 and 2 are the big ones.

dilbert said:
And does the A7RII have a constrast focus and exposure selection system that works the same as live view on Canon DSLRs?

My comments above about selecting AF points apply equally to the EVF and the rear display, although much of the time it's doing phase detect. Manual focus is significantly better on the A7 due to in-EVH magnification (which trumps rear display magnification due to clarity and relative size); using the rear display it's 6 to one, half dozen to the other (in other words, sony's implementation is ages better than nikon's). I had a lot of hope for focus peeking, but have thus far found it unreliable since it's just displaying high contrast areas, which are often in very OOF areas.

I'm not sure what you're asking regarding exposure selection. I have it set up for easy access to all three exposure parameters, and have a button mapped to bring up metering mode. I wish I could hold a button down and spin a wheel to change ISO (like with canon). Unfortunately I have to bring up a menu, which isn't as quick.
 
Upvote 0
Don Haines said:
I love anecdotal evidence...... you can always find something to justify any point of view.

Your little fantasies are quite entertaining. But I watched the video (twice, to be sure) and saw no one offer anything approaching "anecdotal evidence" of anything.

What I see is an interesting comment from someone in a camera retailing operation that operates nationally. He had not previously seen the numbers of loyal Canon/Nikon users trading in their equipment. He does obliquely suggest they are mostly doing this to acquire mirrorless equipment. I could just as easily conclude economic conditions are difficult and they are selling their stuff to make mortgage payments.

Again, it's an observation from someone who has years of experience participating in the retail market. It's an exception to past experience. Such an observation from such a person carries weight, but it does not constitute evidence of anything.
 
Upvote 0

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,246
1,939
Canada
distant.star said:
Don Haines said:
I love anecdotal evidence...... you can always find something to justify any point of view.

Your little fantasies are quite entertaining. But I watched the video (twice, to be sure) and saw no one offer anything approaching "anecdotal evidence" of anything.

It's just that it is impossible to make any kind of conclusion with limited data..... For example, that store might have the best trade-in policy in the area so they would be seeing an un-naturally high degree of trade-in cameras.... or maybe they have the worst trade-in policy and the practice is far greater than they realize....

In my memory card and camera buyer's example, the store was having a big Nikon promotion when I went in for the card and everyone was buying Nikons..... they were out of the card I wanted, but expecting more in a few days, and when I went in on the Monday to pick it up they were having a big Canon promotion and OMG! everyone was buying Canon..... an unmentioned bit of information which makes the buyer behaviour reasonable. This week it's Sony/Panasonic/Olympus so it's a safe bet that most buyers this week will be mirrorless.....
 
Upvote 0
Facts: People are dumping SLR photography - its as simple as that.

Mirrorless may be one reason but its by no means a leading reason. SLR is being dumped in far higher numbers than mirrorless sales are expanding.

Were talking double digit sales dives for Canon over several consecutive years. Nikon did a little better at first but are now on the same track (plenty of numbers and statements from both companies to document this).

Anecdotal: I notice that selling used Canon gear has become far more difficult than before.
 
Upvote 0
While I cannot and will not speak for the rest of the market, I for one recently sold my last Canon DSLR last month after picking up the a7r2 and now only have some Canon glass left with an EOS M and metabones adapter for those few pieces.

However, I didn't necessarily feel like I was "dumping" Canon so much as I was dumping the DSLR. I have no qualms about coming back to a Canon body at some point if they end up producing something that piques my interest. But nothing in the Canon body department at the moment is appealing to me or works as well as my xt1 or a7r2 for what I need them for. The glass is still great and they work well with the Sony so I will hold onto them until a better solution comes along. It matters not whether it comes from Canon or anyone else.
 
Upvote 0

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,246
1,939
Canada
Maiaibing said:
Facts: People are dumping SLR photography - its as simple as that.

Mirrorless may be one reason but its by no means a leading reason. SLR is being dumped in far higher numbers than mirrorless sales are expanding.

Were talking double digit sales dives for Canon over several consecutive years. Nikon did a little better at first but are now on the same track (plenty of numbers and statements from both companies to document this).

Anecdotal: I notice that selling used Canon gear has become far more difficult than before.

Declining sales is not dumping. Declining sales is that they are not selling as many as before and can be due to many factors, such as mature market or superior competition.

Dumping is getting rid of.

These are two different processes that are related, but not the same.

An awful lot of Canon (and Nikon) gear out "in the wild" is low end crop cameras with kit lenses. Some of these people are going to just let the camera sit quietly in the closet and die a slow death while they shoot with a phone... Others are going to realize that ANY of the mirrorless cameras out there are better than their old DSLR and switch brands, and most of the discarded DSLRs go off to kids, relatives, or back into the closet.... I would bet that a far greater number of Canons and Nikons suffer this fate than get returned to a store, so I don't regard used cameras in stores as an accurate indicator of either the health or the sickness of DSLRs.

Remember, we are the fanatics..... the loony tunes.... we do not accurately represent the customer base of Canon.
 
Upvote 0
Jan 29, 2011
10,675
6,121
Maiaibing said:
Facts: People are dumping SLR photography - its as simple as that.
No it is not a "Fact".

New sales are declining, but that doesn't translate to SLR's being dumped. I have said many times here DSLR's are now a comparatively mature product, what needs to be in the next model to so outclass the current model as to make a multi thousand dollar purchase compelling?

Longevity and durability have increased with technical advances and expanded feature sets, if the last model had a shutter life of 100,000, then marketing dictates the new model must do 200,000, so what? Many people will never get close to their old models 100,000!

How much 'more' do we need, we have more pixels than most will ever need, more lenses, more DR, more iso etc etc. I see DSR sales falling back to levels similar to the film days, people might replace their cameras every 10 years or so and when they do they will look at whatever competition happens to be around at the time.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying there is no room for improvement, there is and I will welcome it when it comes, what I am saying is that there are no huge leaps left, people don't need to upgrade every model iteration to gain significant picture taking functionality indeed I would venture that most DSLR owners are happy with what they have and see no reason to upgrade.
 
Upvote 0