Review: Canon EOS R by TDP

#21
Right. Let corporate marketing departments control all info about their wonderful products! We don't need no stinkin' objective reviews! Corporations will always make safe cars, medicines, and toys, and they will always produce well made cameras! And who cares which brand to buy? They all so exciting and wonderful and, oh my, I'm breathless!
So Bryan is a corporate shill covering up exploding, poisonous cameras now? Yeah anger can be power, but is your rage a little misplaced here? Camera reviews!
 

YuengLinger

EOS 6D Mark II
Dec 20, 2012
2,023
65
Southeastern USA
#22
So Bryan is a corporate shill covering up exploding, poisonous cameras now? Yeah anger can be power, but is your rage a little misplaced here? Camera reviews!
I don't think you have fully read my posts in this thread, perhaps just scanned a few lines. We disagree about the strength of a camera review, and the work of a particular reviewer. I'm happy to leave it at that.

Though I am sad to see people believing that there is no or little value in objective analysis of products costing thousands of dollars. Don't tap the glass. Don't make waves. Don't go against the herd. Not just sad, but scary for our future.

We can all become a "corporate shill" when we allow our fondness for a brand to be manipulated for marketing purposes. "Loyalty" is a powerful impulse. And the need for dough is real and more powerful.
 
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#23
I always thought photozone.de (now OpticalLimits) was straightforward, and that they didn't get enough respect on this forum. This might be due to their reliance on using a single copy of a lens to, sometimes, "disparage" a popular lens. Fortunately on CanonRumors we have learned, thanks to so much excellent input from lensrentals, that copy variation needs to be considered.
I agree completely. I also like LensTip.com.
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
1,933
179
Vancouver, BC
#24
I don't think you have fully read my posts in this thread, perhaps just scanned a few lines. We disagree about the strength of a camera review, and the work of a particular reviewer. I'm happy to leave it at that.

Though I am sad to see people believing that there is no or little value in objective analysis of products costing thousands of dollars. Don't tap the glass. Don't make waves. Don't go against the herd. Not just sad, but scary for our future.

We can all become a "corporate shill" when we allow our fondness for a brand to be manipulated for marketing purposes. "Loyalty" is a powerful impulse. And the need for dough is real and more powerful.
Now that I have used one for a while, I can safely say that a dslr is just a better tool for me than a mirrorless, because exposure preview is less valuable to me than an optical viewfinder. If Canon had put 2 card slots, made it no crop 120p and 10fps, have it 10 more megagixels and added a joystick and dial, it would still be an inferior device for me than a 6d2 or 5d4 in many ways that matter too much to me.

With that out of the way I don't think there is anything wrong with Bryan's review, and the EOS R is a fine camera for someone who wants a FF mirrorless. I think it is as close to a usable mirrorless FF for me as exists today (more so than Sony), and perhaps a future version will be for me that will make me give up my DSLRs, but there is a ways to go yet.

And that isn't being a brand shill. I'd rather use a D850 than an EOS R or A7R3 too.
 
Oct 19, 2018
6
19
#25
I think brand loyalty and a desire for click-through revenue has undermined his credibility. His conclusions are universally and utterly predictable, as is his mincing of any shortcomings, even glaring ones. It would be nice to have a reliable reviewer to depend on, but nearly all of them have either disappeared or just given up on being objective.

On the positive side, however, he does a thorough job of discussing features and comparing similar gear, which is a valuable service to consumers. I just wish he had a more critical eye when assessing hardware. But the problem faced by tech reviewers in 2018 is that being objective sometimes means less "Buy Now" clicks (less revenue). I get it: He faces a very tough situation. And so do consumers!
I find Bryan's reviews to be among the most even-handed and neutral of any site, for any product, about anything, really. They're almost too neutral. He just seems like a fairly boring middle-aged dude who loves taking deep dives into camera gear. I've never gotten the feeling he was a shill for any particular brand, especially given that his site has featured Nikon and Sony as well as Canon reviews for a long time now, not to mention gear from Tamron, Sigma, Tokina, etc. Sure, at the end of every post he has the bit about supporting his site through the Buy links, but it's standard in every post and it doesn't ever bleed into his reviews. And before that bit, there's usually "should I buy..." so and so gear, and he's pretty frank in his assessments of whether something is worth spending money on. More often than not, I've decided AGAINST purchasing gear after reading his reviews. I have spent probably the equivalent of days reading reviews on his site, and I've yet to come across a review for anything that doesn't mention both good and bad of any product. I honestly can't think of a review site I trust more.
 
Mar 20, 2015
52
4
#26
but keeping the price at a very attractive level
I hadn't realised quite how out of touch reviewers are these days.

An EOS R body with EF adapter on wex.co.uk right now is £2,349.00. That's one-tenth of the UK gross average annual income.
 

docsmith

EOS Rebel T7i
Sep 17, 2010
766
92
#28
I did pick up a few pieces of information that are, for me, valuable from the review. First, Bryan was not able to differentiate AF speed between his 5DSr and the R. This was a question in my mind, how fast was the AF going to be. I have a 5DIV, while the DPAF is fast, I still find the PDAF faster. So, the "R" seems to be an improvement, which is a big deal, IMO.

While I am hearing others also get battery life greater than spec'd, Bryan's numbers are right there, 1510, 1100, 560 and 417 shots with various amounts of battery life remaining. He also noted that type of use was different for the last two (more waiting with camera on) than the first two. This is actually similar to what I see with my 5DIV (normal shooting, I am almost always over 1000 shots per charge, lots of liveview shooting or video, I am usually ~500). So while the initial CIPA rating concerned me, I am thinking this I ok (but still always have a second battery).

I was also pleased to see the IQ and noise results and hear his impressions of the EVF and touch/drag features.

Then, his summary is very much what I am thinking. While the current R is not necessarily for me, I like what I am seeing.
 
May 19, 2015
124
5
#29
I'm not going to weigh in on this or that reviewer. All of them have a problem adapting to a world where the dynamic range - resolution race is stagnant. The easily measured stuff is played out.
Maybe rolling shutter can be measured, but people just say "I think it's bad, or ok. Video performance should be quantifiable, but you just get subjective views. Ergonomics, menu structure, button and dial quality,... opinions. Then fps, # of card slots, etc. just read the specs.
Camera reviews will be like movie reviews, calibrate your tastes to a few reviewers and stick with them. Us super quantifiers will have to wait for a breakthrough in techniques, or rent a lot.
 
Jan 25, 2017
176
42
#30
Now that I have used one for a while, I can safely say that a dslr is just a better tool for me than a mirrorless, because exposure preview is less valuable to me than an optical viewfinder. If Canon had put 2 card slots, made it no crop 120p and 10fps, have it 10 more megagixels and added a joystick and dial, it would still be an inferior device for me than a 6d2 or 5d4 in many ways that matter too much to me.

With that out of the way I don't think there is anything wrong with Bryan's review, and the EOS R is a fine camera for someone who wants a FF mirrorless. I think it is as close to a usable mirrorless FF for me as exists today (more so than Sony), and perhaps a future version will be for me that will make me give up my DSLRs, but there is a ways to go yet.

And that isn't being a brand shill. I'd rather use a D850 than an EOS R or A7R3 too.

is the delay or image quality to low on the EVF vs optical? too much battery? interaction between the live view and EVF? I'm really curious (in an I want to learn more way) why after buying it you think this.
 
Oct 19, 2018
6
19
#31
I've used this camera for about a week now, and my shooting experience has been mostly positive. I've shot an outdoor music festival with extremely high contrast conditions (stage in shadows with backlights but setting sunlight coming in from one side), and indoors in an extremely dark music venue, and I have been pretty impressed. Autofocus in low light has been great. The freezing of action in the EVF after every shot definitely takes some getting used to, but the exposure preview has been a game changer for me so far. Totally eliminates the need for chimping. I've taken this along with my 5DmIV to every shoot since I got the R, but feeling confident enough in the R now to use it as my only body when I want to pare down my gear for a shoot.
 
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Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
1,933
179
Vancouver, BC
#32
is the delay or image quality to low on the EVF vs optical? too much battery? interaction between the live view and EVF? I'm really curious (in an I want to learn more way) why after buying it you think this.
The two types of photography that I engage in most often are birding and product photography. If I frame the question of what camera to pick up as "What does an EVF do for me that's advantageous?", the answer is, for the two types of photography I like, not very much.

In product photography, whether ins studio or at location, almost everything is lit with strobes anyways, so you don't really get a preview. Although the EOS R isn't a disadvantage, there is also nothing extra that it offers. And anyways the camera is on a tripod and I'm using live view + tether to a PC, so the VF isn't much of an issue.

I haven't really done much birding, because I've been busy with other stuff, but some minor stuff aside (like preview on the LCD and some ergonomics changes to get used to), It just doesn't really give me anything over OVF, which I still find more enjoyable to use. I do really like focus magnification, though, particularly for bird portraits.

To me, mirrorless is a cool novelty, and I'm happy I own one, but it just doesn't really give me practical advantages in what matters most -- increasing the keeper rate. In the winter, I'll try to catch some owl photos, and in the spring, when I typically do more birding I'll see if that holds true. I do like the new RF lenses, but I haven't bought one, because 24--105/4 is just not something I want to invest more money in (too much overlap with lenses I already own, that are great), and the 50 is just more than I want to spend for a FL I don't use enough of.

I will say that I'm really impressed with EOS R's AF in a variety of imperfect lighting situations, much more so than A7R3, which gives me some hope for birding, but I really don't know. If those birding adventures go really great, it will vastly improve my chances in investing in future RF bodies. A lot of times, I think something might work out one way or another, but it's impossible to tell until I actually get out there and do it.
 
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jd7

EOS Rebel SL2
Feb 3, 2013
622
44
#33
Now that I have used one for a while, I can safely say that a dslr is just a better tool for me than a mirrorless, because exposure preview is less valuable to me than an optical viewfinder. If Canon had put 2 card slots, made it no crop 120p and 10fps, have it 10 more megagixels and added a joystick and dial, it would still be an inferior device for me than a 6d2 or 5d4 in many ways that matter too much to me.

With that out of the way I don't think there is anything wrong with Bryan's review, and the EOS R is a fine camera for someone who wants a FF mirrorless. I think it is as close to a usable mirrorless FF for me as exists today (more so than Sony), and perhaps a future version will be for me that will make me give up my DSLRs, but there is a ways to go yet.

And that isn't being a brand shill. I'd rather use a D850 than an EOS R or A7R3 too.
My thinking about DSLR versus mirrorless is similar to yours ... but I have to say after reading some of the comments about how accurate the AF is (at least if the subject is still or moving slowly - I am waiting to hear more about how it does with fast/erratically moving subjects) and how well EF lenses, including the Sigma Art lenses, work with the adapter, and playing with an EOS R in a shop for a few minutes, it is much more tempting than I expected. It felt good in the hand and the performance seemed good too, to the extent I was able to test it. I didn't get to bring home any shots to check how well the AF worked, but I had an EF 50 f/1.2L on it and it certainly seemed to lock quickly and confidently even at f/1.2. The shots looked in focus on the back of the camera, although obviously you can't tell that much on a screen that size. I am not a fan of the EVF but I was never going to be, and it bothered me less than on other mirrorless cameras I've tried in the past (not that I've tried the latest Sonys or the Nikon Zs). I won't be rushing out to buy one at the current price but I was surprised how much I liked it overall.
 
Likes: Talys

AJ

EOS Rebel SL2
Sep 11, 2010
595
5
#34
I appreciated the comments about battery life. This was a cause for hesitation for me. But, it isn't anymore now.
 

pj1974

EOS Rebel SL2
Oct 18, 2011
571
31
Adelaide, Australia
#35
With all due respect what has that got to do with anything?
The UK has become a very complex economy, with many people earning little and a few having significant amounts of disposable income. The average gross income in the UK is slightly higher than £23,490 (about £28,000). [I lived in the UK for some years in the 1990's and 2000's and have a business background, having also studied economics].

Having said that, yes, the original comment about UK income was not given in much context. In order to have any comparison, We should also look to the price of other 'hobby' or 'professional' equipment. We might also consider mobile phones, other computing devices, or other goods such as cars, boats, drones, sports equipment, musical instruments, etc, etc.

More in line with the topic, the EOS R is a bit like the UK economy -parts of it are great, other parts seem out of place (M-fn bar, I'm looking at you).

I tested a EOS R a week ago, some aspects of it I liked a lot. Other features were not strong points. The camera does not yet have the responsiveness that convinced me it can handle action as well as many Canon EOS DSLRs.

Canon would likely need to launch a more significant FF mirrorless body to convince me to buy one. At this stage I will stick with my Canon DSLRs and EOS-M camera bodies.

But the future is bright for EOS R and RF-mount! The future in lenses and future technology in particular are very appealing!
 

Viggo

EOS 5DS R
Dec 13, 2010
3,483
120
#36
No one else is experiencing or commenting about the green banding when using flash? It’s only with flash use, no banding without anything in the hot shoe. It seems to be less the simpler the trigger is so I’m guessing on interference. I can’t use my lamp now and it’s bugging the hell out of me...
 
#37
I find Bryan's reviews to be among the most even-handed and neutral of any site, for any product, about anything, really. They're almost too neutral. He just seems like a fairly boring middle-aged dude who loves taking deep dives into camera gear. I've never gotten the feeling he was a shill for any particular brand, especially given that his site has featured Nikon and Sony as well as Canon reviews for a long time now, not to mention gear from Tamron, Sigma, Tokina, etc. Sure, at the end of every post he has the bit about supporting his site through the Buy links, but it's standard in every post and it doesn't ever bleed into his reviews. And before that bit, there's usually "should I buy..." so and so gear, and he's pretty frank in his assessments of whether something is worth spending money on. More often than not, I've decided AGAINST purchasing gear after reading his reviews. I have spent probably the equivalent of days reading reviews on his site, and I've yet to come across a review for anything that doesn't mention both good and bad of any product. I honestly can't think of a review site I trust more.
It is good to hear that he has become more objective. When I first got into photography, I bought a Canon 24mm f/1.4L II, largely based on his review, which understated the extreme coma: 'Expect some coma in the far corners'. That's just one example of the bias I saw in his reviews. I haven't been to his site for years but I did just now, to see whether he has reviewed the Sigma 180mm f/2.8 EX yet. No, he states: 'No promises, but I would like to complete a full Sigma 180mm f/2.8 EX DG OS HSM Macro Lens review in the future.'. No promises, indeed, the Canon version does not compare well.
 
Likes: YuengLinger

FramerMCB

Canon 40D & 7D
Sep 9, 2014
286
23
51
#38
I guess you weren't born yet when the Canon F-1 had the blazing speed of 3.5 FPS and that was amazing for sports etc. And don't bring up the limited edition 10 FPS F-1 that very few were ever built or sold.
As I 'dimly' recall, wasn't there an issue with running film at too high of a speed with static [electricity] build up? I don't remember clearly - something about leaving streaks on the film.

But I do find it funny how many complain about AF not being good enough: quick enough or enough viewfinder coverage, etc. Or any host of other features... When 'back-in-the-day' everyone had to manually focus and manually set all exposure parameters. There's something to be said about knowing how to do all that properly (IMHO).

It is nice to have all of the "bells-and-whistles" that today's technology provides. But I enjoy doing it all manually still at times.
 
Likes: Architect1776

FramerMCB

Canon 40D & 7D
Sep 9, 2014
286
23
51
#39
Right. Let corporate marketing departments control all info about their wonderful products! We don't need no stinkin' objective reviews! Corporations will always make safe cars, medicines, and toys, and they will always produce well made cameras! And who cares which brand to buy? They all so exciting and wonderful and, oh my, I'm breathless!
With the options that exist today - both in equipment and "opinions" of that equipment. If you care about a particular piece of equipment, before purchasing, just rent it for a few days, a week, or a month first. Do your own review if you don't find any site 'reliable'.
 

AlanF

EOS 5DS R
Aug 16, 2012
4,142
339
#40
With the options that exist today - both in equipment and "opinions" of that equipment. If you care about a particular piece of equipment, before purchasing, just rent it for a few days, a week, or a month first. Do your own review if you don't find any site 'reliable'.
We know there is copy variation of lenses and so the only review that does count is the one of the copy in your hands. I either get my lenses from my local dealer who is happy I take them home for an afternoon and test before buying or on-line where there is a guaranteed 14 day return by law or 30 days by some companies. If it is good I keep, if it is soft or decentred it goes back. I have tested enough copies of certain lenses from my local dealer to know that some sites are simply unreliable.