Review: Canon EOS Rebel SL2

aceflibble said:
Aglet said:
if the sensor in this is truly up to the performance level of the 80d
It's literally the exact same sensor. More importantly it has a newer processor. For some reason people think the sensor is the be-all end-all factor in image quality, but the processor is more important for the most critical factors such as noise. (Sensor is really more responsible just for colour depth, which isn't that important these days as every sensor made in the last ten years has colour depth well exceeding any common display or standard photo printer.)
The 80D uses a DIGIC 6, and that sensor & processor combination is also found in the M3; both cameras are rated with the same noise. The M5 and M6 use the same 80D sensor but with a DIGIC 7 processor and are rated for about 1/3rd stop less noise, on top of that same colour accuracy, colour depth, and dynamic range.
The 200D/SL2 has that DIGIC 7 processor, meaning it has the same imaging chain as the M5 and M6.

In other words, this little 'entry' SLR has the best APS-C image quality currently available from Canon. Better than the 80D. Better than the 7D2. Better than some of the older 35mm sensors, in fact. (Anything up to and including the 1Ds3, and arguably the 5D2 for some specific uses.)

The 7D3 will probably exceed it, as that is expected to once again have the same 24mp APS-C sensor but with either two DIGIC 7 processors or a DIGIC 7+ (possibly even two 7+) and better heat management and higher voltage, allowing for the processors to also be clocked a little higher as well. Lower heat and higher clock means a little less noise all-round, plus the workload being split over two processors also of course greatly improves the processor's ability to handle the sensor readout cleanly, so dynamic range and colour accuracy at higher ISO should also improve slightly. (Won't make any difference at lower ISO.)

So if you can wait 8-12 months and care enough about the format to pay the premium, the 7D3 might be the replacement you really want for your older APS-C systems. But if you go for a 200D/SL2 right now, let alone when the price drops a little, you'll still be getting basically the best APS-C image quality possible from Canon.
M3 is a different sensor. Recent rebels, mirrorless, sl2 and 80d share same sensor and same iq. But mirrorless bodies took little bit hit with low iso DR.
 
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unfocused

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aceflibble said:
...The 7D3 will probably exceed it, as that is expected to once again have the same 24mp APS-C...

Who is expecting that?

I expect that the 7DIII will have a new sensor (Probably around 28 mp) that will outperform the 80D. I also expect that the 90D will follow about six to 10 months later with the 7DIII sensor.
 
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Talys

Canon R5
CR Pro
Feb 16, 2017
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Jopa said:
Can someone please tell if it can shoot/track continuously in LV?
I'm thinking to buy this + the 35 macro for my daughter, and somewhat concerned because of lack of AFMA. I know, it could be irrelevant shooting at f/5.6, but at f/2.8 accurate AF still matters :)

It has to. I mean, that's what AI Servo is. You should be able to hit LV, touch the target, and record video or click away on the shutter, and DPAF will keep your target in focus, very smoothly.

For wide-open macro on primes, I'm always manually focusing anyways. It's not that the AF isn't accurate; AFMA or AF performance is irrelevant because the camera will be perfectly focused on something... just probably not what I want it to be focused on.
 
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Talys

Canon R5
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Feb 16, 2017
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tron said:
When the mpixel game is going to stop? I like birding so yes high pixel density is useful to me but 7DII has enough pixel density. They have to fix high and low iso noise before increasing the mpixels. We are talking about the same pixel density of a 50Mp FF sensor here...

When people stop buying cameras just because they have more megapixels :(

On the bright side, it happened with computer CPU gigahertz :) Nobody cares whether a processor is 3.5GHz or 2.4 anymore; and anyhow, those have become totally meaningless numbers because of a host of other factors like core count, hyperthreading, and so forth. So should it be with cameras -- at some point, people need to recognize that just because you can crop out 1500 x 1000 pixels of your subject, it doesn't matter, if that has to be reduced by 50% to make it look good.
 
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Talys said:
On the bright side, it happened with computer CPU gigahertz :) Nobody cares whether a processor is 3.5GHz or 2.4 anymore;

Tell that to the gamers over-clocking to 5.0 GHz ;D.
One of the reasons Lightroom is considered slow is that raw file size has increased without a corresponding increase in CPU speed. More cores/threads don't help and adobe sucks at using the GPU.
 
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tron

CR Pro
Nov 8, 2011
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jthomson said:
Talys said:
On the bright side, it happened with computer CPU gigahertz :) Nobody cares whether a processor is 3.5GHz or 2.4 anymore;

Tell that to the gamers over-clocking to 5.0 GHz ;D.
One of the reasons Lightroom is considered slow is that raw file size has increased without a corresponding increase in CPU speed. More cores/threads don't help and adobe sucks at using the GPU.
+1 It sucks using multiple cores/threads too ;D Let's hope the future releases will fix that.
 
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I owned this camera for a little less than a month before selling it. A very personal thing, but the deeper grip over the SL1 came with a disadvantage. Yes the camera was easier to grip and hold, but the narrowness of the body combined with the deeper grip kept forcing my knuckles into the side of the lens mount and lens, making things quite uncomfortable. Indeed overall the SL1 was a bit more comfortable to use for me. I was hoping because the SL2 was never intended for me as a "main" camera that I'd be able to live with it, but I just couldn't get used to it.

Otherwise I thought it was an excellent camera and if the target market is indeed the "entry-level" consumer, I can't think of many better considering the price.
 
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unfocused said:
Who is expecting that?

I expect that the 7DIII will have a new sensor (Probably around 28 mp) that will outperform the 80D. I also expect that the 90D will follow about six to 10 months later with the 7DIII sensor.
Canon is still 2.5-3 years away from being able to mass produce a 28mp APS-C sensor. The only way the 7D3 is getting that is if they buy in the one of the NX1, and we all know Canon isn't in the business of buying in a sensor. Your expectations are not remotely realistic. The 80D's sensor without a low pass filter and a couple of 7 processors is the best the 7D3 can hope for with Canon's current production. (And there's a fair chance they'll stick with the low pass filter, as the 5DS R hasn't managed to massively outsell the 5DS or 5D4 and as the 7D3 might be heading up Canon's 4K SLR efforts, they'll want it for video.)
 
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Mar 25, 2011
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aceflibble said:
unfocused said:
Who is expecting that?

I expect that the 7DIII will have a new sensor (Probably around 28 mp) that will outperform the 80D. I also expect that the 90D will follow about six to 10 months later with the 7DIII sensor.
Canon is still 2.5-3 years away from being able to mass produce a 28mp APS-C sensor.

I doubt that. Remember, a new camera model uses 2 year old technology, the 24 MP sensor is a design over 2 years old.

Its not so much a matter of being able to mass produce a sensor, its a matter of what makes sense for the target market, and balancing all the factors like power consumption and processing power. Its also a matter of sales tactics, it makes no sense to put too many MP into a sensor when you can increment it by a few million every 3 or 4 years in a new model.
 
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Talys said:
transpo1 said:
“I almost consider this camera, a mirrorless camera that has this optical viewfinder tacked on top of it.”
Wow, who knew? Canon is the most innovative mirrorless camera manufacturer!
LOL. There you go. I think I could grow to like these mirrorless cameras that have OVFs.

+1 I love my M5, but do miss having an OVF. The SL2 seems to provide many of the advantages of mirrorless with some some advantages of DSLR's (OVF, better battery life, phase detection AF).
 
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Chris Jankowski

6DII + various lenses, 200D + 15-85
Jul 27, 2013
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With SL2 now going to 24 Mpixels, I'd guess that a number of EF-S lenses will become a limiting factor for image quality. I would like to know which of the lenses in the EF-S lineup are *not* going to be showing their limits when shooting wide open. I'd guess there is now a large body of opinion based on shooting with cameras that use the same or very similar sensor - e.g. 80D.

Using EF-S lenses would be preferable to me, if they can do the job, as they are typically smaller, lighter and cheaper than equivalent EF full format lenses. In case of zooms there is also no full frame zoom taking in the most useful on APS-C focal length range of 15-85 or so.
 
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Chris Jankowski said:
With SL2 now going to 24 Mpixels, I'd guess that a number of EF-S lenses will become a limiting factor for image quality. I would like to know which of the lenses in the EF-S lineup are *not* going to be showing their limits when shooting wide open. I'd guess there is now a large body of opinion based on shooting with cameras that use the same or very similar sensor - e.g. 80D.

Using EF-S lenses would be preferable to me, if they can do the job, as they are typically smaller, lighter and cheaper than equivalent EF full format lenses. In case of zooms there is also no full frame zoom taking in the most useful on APS-C focal length range of 15-85 or so.

(1) 18MPix to 24MPix isn't that dramatic in resolution - it's just around 15% increase in resolution figures of lines / mm or pixel / mm
(2) EF-S lenses are configured to support high res sensors while EF lenses aren't per se - 18Mpix on APS-C is roughly 52 MPix on FF so the 5Ds was the first EF lens compatible camera that needed comparable resolution on the sensor.
(3) Resolution killers are in my experience mostly (a) camera shake, (b) turbulences in air and (c) diffraction if you go below f/5.6 or f/8.0

Ad (2): High end EF lenses which were released after the release of the 5Ds cameras will show great IQ on the current APS-C sensors.

A great lens is the EF-S 60mm Macro on the 200D - too if used as landscape lens.
EF 100 2.8 macro is very good too (but if you are in a 100mm macro, consider IS to resolve (3) (a)!
EF 70-200 4.0 L IS USM is very good and has a good reputation especially on APS-C cameras for its res, contrast, etc. + IS helps a lot.
This holds wide open.

The EF-S 10-22 ultra wide is not that sharp / has not that high resolution but has good flare resistance and very low distortion - it is well suited for good video footage (200D / SL2 corrects the non-negligible CAs well if you want it to do that). So I will keep it for the seldom uses of Ultrawide and for Ultrawide video.
 
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I think its a bit much to expect many ef-s lenses to be at their sharpest wide open, most of them are on the cheaper and lighter end for obvious reasons.

Having said that, I think quite a few of them do very well, the 60mm is great and as said above there are multiple great lenses available if you dont focus on ef-s alone. Me I love the utility of being able to carry multiple light lenses over absolute sharpness wide open, ie 18-55mm, 50mm 1.8, 10-18mm.
 
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Chris Jankowski said:
With SL2 now going to 24 Mpixels, I'd guess that a number of EF-S lenses will become a limiting factor for image quality. I would like to know which of the lenses in the EF-S lineup are *not* going to be showing their limits when shooting wide open. I'd guess there is now a large body of opinion based on shooting with cameras that use the same or very similar sensor - e.g. 80D.

Using EF-S lenses would be preferable to me, if they can do the job, as they are typically smaller, lighter and cheaper than equivalent EF full format lenses. In case of zooms there is also no full frame zoom taking in the most useful on APS-C focal length range of 15-85 or so.

There is no limit as far as lenses go, every time you raise the sensor resolution, you will get a higher resolution image. You may not get a image that is proportionally better, but it will always be better. Its the physics.
 
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Talys said:
transpo1 said:
“I almost consider this camera, a mirrorless camera that has this optical viewfinder tacked on top of it.”
Wow, who knew? Canon is the most innovative mirrorless camera manufacturer!

LOL. There you go. I think I could grow to like these mirrorless cameras that have OVFs.

I switched from FF to APS-C a few months ago.

I now have the 77D and M5, and I treat the 77D as a mirrorless camera with OVF option. Seriously, it's hard to beat the AF accuracy of MILCs.
 
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