RF Mount 7D2 replacement? Could it happen?

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,758
3,104
My 7DII has a silent shutter mode, not completely silent but quiet enough that is doesn't spook birds at 3 ft min focus distance of 100-400 II. I am a little surprised you don't think battery life of the R is bad compared to the 7 DII. Maybe you have a bad battery for your 7D II.
Have you used mirrorless? With our 7Ds, 5Ds and 1Ds, we leave our camera on always and when wild life appears we are ready to shoot. With mirrorless, that would more quickly run the battery down and I tend to turn off between shots. Or do the R and RP folks find they don’t need to on hikes?
 
Aug 26, 2019
4
5
Have you used mirrorless? With our 7Ds, 5Ds and 1Ds, we leave our camera on always and when wild life appears we are ready to shoot. With mirrorless, that would more quickly run the battery down and I tend to turn off between shots. Or do the R and RP folks find they don’t need to on hikes?
Have you used mirrorless? With our 7Ds, 5Ds and 1Ds, we leave our camera on always and when wild life appears we are ready to shoot. With mirrorless, that would more quickly run the battery down and I tend to turn off between shots. Or do the R and RP folks find they don’t need to on hikes?
I'm in agreement with you AlanF, I have shot mirroless and I feel it's not suited for 7D, 1D type cameras yet. In the winter I sometimes shoot for hours in as low as -15 degrees temps, I can't take off gloves to be changing batteries often which I would be in that kind of could with mirrorless and evf running all the time. I barely avoid frostbite as is.
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,758
3,104
I'm in agreement with you AlanF, I have shot mirroless and I feel it's not suited for 7D, 1D type cameras yet. In the winter I sometimes shoot for hours in as low as -15 degrees temps, I can't take off gloves to be changing batteries often which I would be in that kind of could with mirrorless and evf running all the time. I barely avoid frostbite as is.
I'd like to hear from the R and RP users about their experiences of using them on nature hikes and safaris. There are features of mirrorless I do like, and I do use a couple of mirrorless. For some reason, I always get poor life from DSLR batteries and far worse from mirrorless. Others report they far exceed the CIPA predictions on battery life but I fail miserably to meet them.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
990
484
I was wondering what would the shutter speed reciprocal formula look like for a 83mp FF mirrorless body? 1/ 3x FL (mm) ???

Sure, no mirror shock but pixel size is just tiny.
The old 1/FL rule of thumb is for display sizes of around 8x10" from a distance of 12" with 135 format (FF/35mm) film.

When you view an image at 100% on a typical monitor, you're viewing a part of a much more enlarged image. So the 1/FL rule of thumb is already woefully inadequate.

Even a 20-22MP image viewed at 100% on a 24" HD (1920x1080) monitor is like looking at a piece of a 60x40" enlargement! That would require a 1/(5 X FL X crop factor) rule of thumb.

Looking at an 80MP image on the same monitor is the equivalent enlargement ratio of 120x80" display size of the full image! Now we're at a roughly 1/(10X FL X crop factor)!
 

criscokkat

EOS RP
Sep 26, 2017
266
232
Madison, WI
Nikon looks like it's about to step up the competition by releasing a pair of aps-c Z mount cameras. The first one, z50, looks to be a general purpose low cost model but it looks like there's going to be a mirrorless version of the d500 as well.

I certainly hope that Canon will follow soon.
 
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Dec 24, 2014
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1
Was not aware of potential battery issues with mirror less. Is that an issues with other brands or just Canon? On the fence on if I should start looking at other manufactures for replacement of my 7D2.
 
Aug 26, 2019
4
5
All things being equal mirrorless cams will always have to power the electronic viewfinder which eats up power. If my 7DII shutter goes, I will just get another. I still think they will make a 7D III. Wildlife/Sports is one area which cell phones will never affect sales, it would be stupid to abanoon that market.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
990
484
All things being equal mirrorless cams will always have to power the electronic viewfinder which eats up power. If my 7DII shutter goes, I will just get another. I still think they will make a 7D III. Wildlife/Sports is one area which cell phones will never affect sales, it would be stupid to abanoon that market.

For those doing paid work, one can't afford to wait until the inevitable shutter failure rears its ugly head in the middle of a sporting event. One needs to have two viable cameras at hand during the shoot.
 

jvillain

EOS T7i
Sep 29, 2018
98
79
Have you used mirrorless? With our 7Ds, 5Ds and 1Ds, we leave our camera on always and when wild life appears we are ready to shoot. With mirrorless, that would more quickly run the battery down and I tend to turn off between shots. Or do the R and RP folks find they don’t need to on hikes?
The R eats through batteries at a pretty hectic pace even with the power management maxed out to where the camera becomes unfun to use. If I am going into the out back I am taking my 80D not the R. The fact that the R resets the aperture to wide open every time it goes to sleep is absolutely infuriating. By the time you get the R ready to take a shot you have missed it. The 80D stays on all day, doesn't change settings on me and is ready to go at the drop of a hat. The R is a nice camera but better suited to the studio. DSLRs aren't dead yet no matter what hair doo says.
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,758
3,104
The R eats through batteries at a pretty hectic pace even with the power management maxed out to where the camera becomes unfun to use. If I am going into the out back I am taking my 80D not the R. The fact that the R resets the aperture to wide open every time it goes to sleep is absolutely infuriating. By the time you get the R ready to take a shot you have missed it. The 80D stays on all day, doesn't change settings on me and is ready to go at the drop of a hat. The R is a nice camera but better suited to the studio. DSLRs aren't dead yet no matter what hair doo says.
I've shown my confidence by buying a 90D. The mirrorless are great for many purposes but I need a constantly ready camera for opportunistic shots as well as a 'scope.
 

rjbray01

Canon Forever
Jan 19, 2017
132
74
It is a safe bet that the 7D3 is not going to come out and replace the 7D2, but what happens next?

The camera industry is moving towards Mirrorless.... Canon and Nikon are the last holdouts, and Canon is on the way. At the lower end, we have the M series, and at the higher end, the R series. We are told that there are higher end R cameras on the way, including a high megapixel monster.

However, the bulk of Canon sales are the Rebels. People seem to prefer that combination of size and price, and there is no way that Canon are going to let that market get away from them. At some point soon, I expect to see some low cost kit lenses appear in the R mount, and eventually an R mount Rebel. Likewise, I think that the 90D will be the end of its line.

Looking at other makers of high end crop cameras, we have Olympus and Panasonic who have both come out with very high end crop cameras. Both are loaded with features and have so much computing power packed into them, that they had to make bodies that are reminiscent of a 1DX series camera. I expect that Canon will join the fray, and we will end up with an R mount body, slightly bigger than the R, with improved battery capacity, an IBIS crop sensor (35 megapixel range), quad Digic 9?, and similar functions to the Oly and Panasonic top end cameras.

I don’t expect to see it for a couple years, but 60FPS burst modes, superhigh in camera stitching mode, single shot HDR,, object recognition and tracking, and 6K video (8K?) are all possibilities.

Anyway, this is just speculation, I have no secret inside knowledge (or imaginary helicopter) and am just guessing/wishing for the future. However you look at it, these are interesting times for camera gear.
Perhaps we will get to the point where all you require is a single prime lens with ultra hi-res sensor - pan for wide angle and crop for telephoto - and blur with software - hmm sounds like my phone
 

rjbray01

Canon Forever
Jan 19, 2017
132
74
Mirrorless bodies cost less to build. Costs are typically estimated based on part count, and there are fewer parts in a mirrorless camera. The EVF is a bit pricy, but getting rid of all the complex and delicate mirrors, prisms and exposure and AF sensor cuts not only cost to make, but reduces the need for service.

The other factor is building market share. Aggressive pricing is meant to attract buyers and generate a large enough base of users so that more will want to jump on the bandwagon. That's a big risk financially, basically buying into the market. Prices will rise at some point.

If a APS-C version of the R series comes out, it will likely have a few more features than the M6, but perfromance will be similar. Maybe 2 card slots? There needs to be something that differentiates such a body, maybe price?
I'm no marketing expert but I get the impression that Canon want to achieve both market share and brand reputation. It seems to me that having a spectrum of high-price-top-quality and low-price-competitive-quality is the way to maximize long-term success- with the top end proving the company's reputation technically and the latter commercially

It appears that such a strategy has worked incredibly well for Canon so far and no doubt they will continue it as the market moves to all-mirrorless

Personally I think they will migrate from M to R at the lower end as it provides the most attractive and seemless upgrade path for users at the lower end

Sure, some people aren't concerned about the upgrade path when they buy their first camera - but even for those who didn't, they are still enticed to stick with Canon all the way up the ladder as they get more and more invested in glass ...
 
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SteveC

M50 & T6i
Sep 3, 2019
352
202
Personally I think they will migrate from M to R at the lower end as it provides the most attractive and seemless upgrade path for users at the lower end
If by "they" you mean Canon...then I don't understand this sentence. Are you saying Canon plans to drop the M line and try to move everyone to R?

M is very successful in some markets (or so I've heard--I've not seen it with my own eyes but I've no reason not to believe it).

Different thought, triggered by what you wrote:

I just had a light bulb turn on, possibly in error: Imagine a person buying their first camera. They get an M, and some M lenses. Eventually, they buy a higher end M (like the 6II) and they want lenses that aren't part of the EF-M lineup. So they buy some EF lenses (and an adapter).

They now have a somewhat eased transition to an R body, because they already have some lenses that will work on it.

If that's the pathway Canon wants to lay out for developing photographers, then of course they will NOT be discontinuing EF lenses (though they may stop developing new ones--actually they may have already stopped).
 

rjbray01

Canon Forever
Jan 19, 2017
132
74
If by "they" you mean Canon...then I don't understand this sentence. Are you saying Canon plans to drop the M line and try to move everyone to R?

M is very successful in some markets (or so I've heard--I've not seen it with my own eyes but I've no reason not to believe it).

Different thought, triggered by what you wrote:

I just had a light bulb turn on, possibly in error: Imagine a person buying their first camera. They get an M, and some M lenses. Eventually, they buy a higher end M (like the 6II) and they want lenses that aren't part of the EF-M lineup. So they buy some EF lenses (and an adapter).

They now have a somewhat eased transition to an R body, because they already have some lenses that will work on it.

If that's the pathway Canon wants to lay out for developing photographers, then of course they will NOT be discontinuing EF lenses (though they may stop developing new ones--actually they may have already stopped).
Actually I suspect you might be wrong in the long term

I doubt they will start development of any new M or EF lenses but slowly cover the entire range both L and budget with R lenses and R cameras

At that point they will phase out the production of EF and M lenses and cameras.

I personally tried the route of an M5 + adapter and found the whole experience absolutely terrible when I was in a situation where I was carrying the M5 and 5D and wanted frequent lens changes - jossling adapters on and off lenses all the time was sheer hell.

If the choice was between

A carrying a full frame R and a crop-sensor R and one set of lenses which fit both

B carrying a full frame R and an M and a mixture of lenses and am adapter

It's a no brainier which anyone would prefer - assuming they can come up with a range of small light R lenses and crop cameras ... Which I very strongly expect they can do technically

I can't see why anyone would actually prefer to carry around two half-incompatible cameras (can't fit M lens on an R camera ...)

So my belief is that Canon will opt for one homogeneous range with a spectrum of price points in cameras and lenses

For those people for whom size and weight are of supreme importance I suspect that a phone plus perhaps a yet-to-be-invented "eye-goggles EVF" viewfinder will be the ideal choice
 

SteveC

M50 & T6i
Sep 3, 2019
352
202
Actually I suspect you might be wrong in the long term

I doubt they will start development of any new M or EF lenses but slowly cover the entire range both L and budget with R lenses and R cameras

At that point they will phase out the production of EF and M lenses and cameras.

I personally tried the route of an M5 + adapter and found the whole experience absolutely terrible when I was in a situation where I was carrying the M5 and 5D and wanted frequent lens changes - jossling adapters on and off lenses all the time was sheer hell.

If the choice was between

A carrying a full frame R and a crop-sensor R and one set of lenses which fit both

B carrying a full frame R and an M and a mixture of lenses and am adapter

It's a no brainier which anyone would prefer - assuming they can come up with a range of small light R lenses and crop cameras ... Which I very strongly expect they can do technically

I can't see why anyone would actually prefer to carry around two half-incompatible cameras (can't fit M lens on an R camera ...)

So my belief is that Canon will opt for one homogeneous range with a spectrum of price points in cameras and lenses

For those people for whom size and weight are of supreme importance I suspect that a phone plus perhaps a yet-to-be-invented "eye-goggles EVF" viewfinder will be the ideal choice
You could very well be right. (I was, after all, engaging in blatant speculation.) That would imply Canon thinks the M is a bad idea--not that any corporation will ever actually say so.

The adapter situation wouldn't be so bad, but they insist you should remove the lens+adapter from the camera, then move the adapter to the other lens, and then put that adapter+lens onto the camera, turning a two step process into a four step process.

If you could leave the adapter on the camera, the situation would be unchanged; you'd simply be swapping lenses.

I don't imagine myself hauling around both an R and an M at the same time--and if I am doing such a thing, it's to avoid swapping lenses (put two totally different lenses on and switch cameras), so that's actually no worse than doing so now.
 
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Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,149
1,681
Canada
You could very well be right. (I was, after all, engaging in blatant speculation.) That would imply Canon thinks the M is a bad idea--not that any corporation will ever actually say so.

The adapter situation wouldn't be so bad, but they insist you should remove the lens+adapter from the camera, then move the adapter to the other lens, and then put that adapter+lens onto the camera, turning a two step process into a four step process.

If you could leave the adapter on the camera, the situation would be unchanged; you'd simply be swapping lenses.

I don't imagine myself hauling around both an R and an M at the same time--and if I am doing such a thing, it's to avoid swapping lenses (put two totally different lenses on and switch cameras), so that's actually no worse than doing so now.
The M line is smaller and less expensive. For many, those are the two most important requirements. The vast bulk of camera buyers are not going to spend $1000 or more for a camera body, nor are they going to be investing in lots of expensive lenses. Most camera owners have one or two lenses.

We fanatics on CR do not represent the masses.
 

SteveC

M50 & T6i
Sep 3, 2019
352
202
The M line is smaller and less expensive. For many, those are the two most important requirements. The vast bulk of camera buyers are not going to spend $1000 or more for a camera body, nor are they going to be investing in lots of expensive lenses. Most camera owners have one or two lenses.

We fanatics on CR do not represent the masses.
The M6 II pushes that cash boundary then.

We're in a situation now where we have fantastic lenses (with very good but not fantastic bodies) in the R realm, and a very good body and lesser lenses in the M realm. At least in the latter case the EF->EOS-M adapter comes to the rescue. :)
 

bhf3737

---
Sep 9, 2015
473
497
Calgary, Canada
www.flickr.com
Perhaps the M6 II is currently a camera for all seasons! It can become as small as it fits into the pocket or large when mounting tele lenses and it can partially meet the need of both worlds (i.e. those who need it wide and those who need speed) somehow. Perhaps battery life and lack of weather sealing bring some inconvenience for those who need speed in harsh conditions.

20191004 009.jpg
20191004 001.jpg
 
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Aussie shooter

@brett.guy.photography
Dec 6, 2016
459
459
Perhaps the M6 II is currently a camera for all seasons! It can become as small as it fits into the pocket or large when mounting tele lenses and it can partially meet the need of both worlds (i.e. those who need it wide and those who need speed) somehow. Perhaps battery life and lack of weather sealing bring some inconvenience for those who need speed in harsh conditions.

View attachment 186956View attachment 186957
Lets be honest though. That bottom combination is utterly ridiculous and you would only use it if you had no other choice. Balance is just as important if not more so than weight. And that is as unbalanced as it comes
 
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bhf3737

---
Sep 9, 2015
473
497
Calgary, Canada
www.flickr.com
Lets be honest though. That bottom combination is utterly ridiculous and you would only use it if you had no other choice. Balance is just as important if not more so than weight. And that is as unbalanced as it comes
True if you hand hold it, but if you put it on a tripod it is quite usable. But tripod cannot remove the problems with low battery life and weather sealing... for which 90D would be a better choice.