Shutter speed rule when shooting handheld

neuroanatomist said:
Mt Spokane Photography said:
The out of date rule, 1/shutter speed was updated by Canon to suggest that 1 / 2 X shutter speed be used for modern high MP sensors and non-IS lenses. For a 24 mp APS-C or 5DS, I'd use 1 / 3 X shutter speed when possible.
Interesting that Canon changed their recommendation. I wonder if they have/will alter the firmware for newer cameras accordingly, to use faster shutter speeds in Av than 1/FL for FF and 1/(1.6xFL) for APS-C. I've always found it interesting that Canon ignores IS when selecting a shutter speed in Av.
Do they do this? I wasn't aware of that! Perhaps I've been imagining it all along, but I perceive that it prefers a slightly lower shutter speed when I have IS on. Must be my mind playing tricks on me...
 

Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
Mar 25, 2011
15,526
755
neuroanatomist said:
Mt Spokane Photography said:
The out of date rule, 1/shutter speed was updated by Canon to suggest that 1 / 2 X shutter speed be used for modern high MP sensors and non-IS lenses. For a 24 mp APS-C or 5DS, I'd use 1 / 3 X shutter speed when possible.
Interesting that Canon changed their recommendation. I wonder if they have/will alter the firmware for newer cameras accordingly, to use faster shutter speeds in Av than 1/FL for FF and 1/(1.6xFL) for APS-C. I've always found it interesting that Canon ignores IS when selecting a shutter speed in Av.
They started offering the feature when the 7D MK II was introduced, but its not well known and not intuitive. Its on the high end bodies, not on my SL2.

I set my 5D MK IV to +1. At 100mm and "0", it sets a shutter speed of 1/100 sec, at 100mm and +1, it sets a shutter speed of 1/160 sec, at 100mm and +2, it sets 1/320 sec, and at 100mm and +3, it sets 1/640 sec. You can set it to slow shutter speeds the same way.

NEW: User-controllable “Auto” for minimum shutter speed with Auto ISO Another option for pre-setting the minimum shutter speed before Auto ISO goes to a higher ISO setting is “Auto.” In the past, this was simply 1/ lens focal length, and with standard or wide-angle lenses, the resulting slow shutter speeds sometimes meant speeds that were dangerously close to risking blurs from subject or camera movement. Think about it — in a fast-paced situation, such as (for instance) indoor wedding candids with a 16-35mm lens, do you really want speeds dropping as low as 1/15th of a second?
EOS 7D Mark II now offers a 7-step scale, to further fine-tune what the camera will do when you’ve set Auto for minimum shutter speed. It still uses 1/ lens focal length as the base, but with considerable adjustability. Three settings on the “+” side allow you to dial-in 1, 2 or 3 stops faster shutter speeds than whatever your current 1/ lens focal length setting is. And the “–” settings allow up to 3 stops slower speeds, for instances where you’re using Image Stabilization, or are otherwise confident that slower shutter speeds will be the right answer for you.
Particularly when working with zoom lenses having an extensive zoom range, the Auto setting gives flexibility to work with Auto ISO, and have appropriate shutter speeds for your longer focal lengths, and still allow for reduced — but safe — speeds at wide zoom settings.
 

Mikehit

EOS 5D MK IV
Jul 28, 2015
3,227
415
Thanks for that. The number of times using my 7D2 I have mused 'wouldn't it be a good idea if...' and dammit they had already!
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,153
1,687
Canada
Mt Spokane Photography said:
neuroanatomist said:
Mt Spokane Photography said:
The out of date rule, 1/shutter speed was updated by Canon to suggest that 1 / 2 X shutter speed be used for modern high MP sensors and non-IS lenses. For a 24 mp APS-C or 5DS, I'd use 1 / 3 X shutter speed when possible.
Interesting that Canon changed their recommendation. I wonder if they have/will alter the firmware for newer cameras accordingly, to use faster shutter speeds in Av than 1/FL for FF and 1/(1.6xFL) for APS-C. I've always found it interesting that Canon ignores IS when selecting a shutter speed in Av.
They started offering the feature when the 7D MK II was introduced, but its not well known and not intuitive. Its on the high end bodies, not on my SL2.

I set my 5D MK IV to +1. At 100mm and "0", it sets a shutter speed of 1/100 sec, at 100mm and +1, it sets a shutter speed of 1/160 sec, at 100mm and +2, it sets 1/320 sec, and at 100mm and +3, it sets 1/640 sec. You can set it to slow shutter speeds the same way.

NEW: User-controllable “Auto” for minimum shutter speed with Auto ISO Another option for pre-setting the minimum shutter speed before Auto ISO goes to a higher ISO setting is “Auto.” In the past, this was simply 1/ lens focal length, and with standard or wide-angle lenses, the resulting slow shutter speeds sometimes meant speeds that were dangerously close to risking blurs from subject or camera movement. Think about it — in a fast-paced situation, such as (for instance) indoor wedding candids with a 16-35mm lens, do you really want speeds dropping as low as 1/15th of a second?
EOS 7D Mark II now offers a 7-step scale, to further fine-tune what the camera will do when you’ve set Auto for minimum shutter speed. It still uses 1/ lens focal length as the base, but with considerable adjustability. Three settings on the “+” side allow you to dial-in 1, 2 or 3 stops faster shutter speeds than whatever your current 1/ lens focal length setting is. And the “–” settings allow up to 3 stops slower speeds, for instances where you’re using Image Stabilization, or are otherwise confident that slower shutter speeds will be the right answer for you.
Particularly when working with zoom lenses having an extensive zoom range, the Auto setting gives flexibility to work with Auto ISO, and have appropriate shutter speeds for your longer focal lengths, and still allow for reduced — but safe — speeds at wide zoom settings.
Sigh......

Yet more proof that my camera is smarter than me. I think I am going to give up, put it in "green box" mode, and leave the camera in control......
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
2,058
329
Vancouver, BC
Another way to do it, if you know you don't have enough light for base ISO anyways, is to just use M, and set shutter speed to the lowest that you know that you can personally shoot handheld given that body and lens. Then use the dial to manually balance between ISO and aperture.
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,153
1,687
Canada
Talys said:
Another way to do it, if you know you don't have enough light for base ISO anyways, is to just use M, and set shutter speed to the lowest that you know that you can personally shoot handheld given that body and lens. Then use the dial to manually balance between ISO and aperture.
Yes, that has been my method....
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,153
1,687
Canada
SjacPhoto said:
Thanks to the image stabilization You should be able to go even below the reciprocal value nowadays.
The image stabilization is great for movement from the photographer, but has no effect on subject movement ☹
 

mb66energy

EOS 6D MK II
Dec 18, 2011
1,294
196
Germany
www.MichaelBockhorst.de
Mt Spokane Photography said:
neuroanatomist said:
Mt Spokane Photography said:
The out of date rule, 1/shutter speed was updated by Canon to suggest that 1 / 2 X shutter speed be used for modern high MP sensors and non-IS lenses. For a 24 mp APS-C or 5DS, I'd use 1 / 3 X shutter speed when possible.
Interesting that Canon changed their recommendation. I wonder if they have/will alter the firmware for newer cameras accordingly, to use faster shutter speeds in Av than 1/FL for FF and 1/(1.6xFL) for APS-C. I've always found it interesting that Canon ignores IS when selecting a shutter speed in Av.
They started offering the feature when the 7D MK II was introduced, but its not well known and not intuitive. Its on the high end bodies, not on my SL2.

I set my 5D MK IV to +1. At 100mm and "0", it sets a shutter speed of 1/100 sec, at 100mm and +1, it sets a shutter speed of 1/160 sec, at 100mm and +2, it sets 1/320 sec, and at 100mm and +3, it sets 1/640 sec. You can set it to slow shutter speeds the same way.

NEW: User-controllable “Auto” for minimum shutter speed with Auto ISO Another option for pre-setting the minimum shutter speed before Auto ISO goes to a higher ISO setting is “Auto.” In the past, this was simply 1/ lens focal length, and with standard or wide-angle lenses, the resulting slow shutter speeds sometimes meant speeds that were dangerously close to risking blurs from subject or camera movement. Think about it — in a fast-paced situation, such as (for instance) indoor wedding candids with a 16-35mm lens, do you really want speeds dropping as low as 1/15th of a second?
EOS 7D Mark II now offers a 7-step scale, to further fine-tune what the camera will do when you’ve set Auto for minimum shutter speed. It still uses 1/ lens focal length as the base, but with considerable adjustability. Three settings on the “+” side allow you to dial-in 1, 2 or 3 stops faster shutter speeds than whatever your current 1/ lens focal length setting is. And the “–” settings allow up to 3 stops slower speeds, for instances where you’re using Image Stabilization, or are otherwise confident that slower shutter speeds will be the right answer for you.
Particularly when working with zoom lenses having an extensive zoom range, the Auto setting gives flexibility to work with Auto ISO, and have appropriate shutter speeds for your longer focal lengths, and still allow for reduced — but safe — speeds at wide zoom settings.
Thanks for clarification: I really like my SL2 but I have seen this "lack of feature" very soon and my first thought was that it is standard in higher end bodies but not implemented in SL2.
One more reason to long for a SL2x with AF adjustement capabilities etc.!

About the exp. time vs. focal length rule: I think Canon is right because roughly 6MPix was what I have seen with FF film - 24MPix is twice the linear resolution resulting in twice the sensitivity to shake. 24MPix on APS-C is 3x the resolution so you need 1/3 of angular deviation of the camera during exposure to get the same per pixel sharpness.
 

mb66energy

EOS 6D MK II
Dec 18, 2011
1,294
196
Germany
www.MichaelBockhorst.de
I have underestimated breathing technique for a very long time. My best time to trigger the shutter during a breathing cycle is shortly before the end of exhalation. I think that muscles are relaxed at the maximum and motion during exhalation is at the minimum.
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
2,058
329
Vancouver, BC
ahsanford said:
stevelee said:
As I was getting used to my 6D2 with 24-105mm STM lens, I found that just setting everything on auto and not paying attention to the whether there was any light to speak of worked rather well. Sure, pixel peeping on an ISO 40,000 shot showed noise, but the IS seemed to allow handheld shots at relatively slow shutter speeds.

Obviously I am going to pay more attention on important shots, but pushing limits while just messing around has given me a start at knowing what I can get away with, and that is a lot more than I would have tried without doing the casual shooting.
Sure, but you can also set an acceptable-to-your-tastes ISO cap to your personal preferences with Auto ISO. My 5D3 is set to cap at ISO 6400 but I'll push that at concerts, super dim rooms, if I see an Elk after dark on the South Rim of the GC, etc.

- A
The subject matter makes a huge difference to what the maximum ISO can be to give you a great shot, too. light brown woody stuff looks great even when you crank up the ISO, whereas near-blacks really suffer, as do many colors, like shades of blue.

Also, every photo looks best at the nearest-to-100 ISO, all other factors being equal, meaning that if you could, you'd shoot every photo at ISO 100.

So what I like to do when I'm learning a lens is to bracket the shutter speed, taking them at, for example, starting at 1/2000 and dropping it down a notch all the way to 1/60 - 1/250 (depending on the lens) of the types of things I like to shoot (same subject), and see how it all turns out.

At some point, you just won't notice anymore, but that point can vary a lot between lenses. Then, once I have a setting I think I like I go and take a whole bunch of shots of stuff.