So the banding is back??

Viggo

EOS 5DS R
Dec 13, 2010
3,352
62
#1
EOS R image quality

Normally I wouldn’t care too much about this, but I saw banding happen very early with the files Jared had for download previously and to see it now also, and not in a structured pattern has me a bit concerned.

I loved my 1dx, but IQ wise the upgrade to the 1dx2 was massive, and I was going to get the EOS R to replace my 1dx2, for many reasons, but seeing this makes me not want it at all....

I’ll probably get shot for posting this, but hey, it’s a concern to me... and to those who are just going to say “expose properly” I know how to do that already. I saw banding in the shots Jared had and it just felt like I hit the limit of the file much earlier than the 1dx2 files...
 

Attachments

Oct 6, 2015
151
42
#2
It's always been there in the 5DIV sensor :
https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/9485291827/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-sample-gallery/9400200081
But always at a low enough point that noise would ruin an image before banding would anyway.
I wouldn't be much concerned about the R's banding at low ISO as, even if it may be higher than the 5DIV, it's still only visible when the image looks rubbish anyway because of excessive noise.
I would be slightly more concerned about banding at higher ISOs as it seems to appear with much smaller pushes. Jared Polin's shot at ISO 10000 already exhibits a mild case of banding with a one stop push.
 

Mikehit

EOS 5D Mark IV
Jul 28, 2015
3,074
277
#3
I found this on a certain other site this morning

It seems they agree with you - better image quality than 5DIV but more banding (after recovering about 5 and a half stops) but may be a processing issue.


 
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Viggo

EOS 5DS R
Dec 13, 2010
3,352
62
#4
I found this on a certain other site this morning

It seems they agree with you - better image quality than 5DIV but more banding (after recovering about 5 and a half stops) but may be a processing issue.


It’s the same video I linked to at the top(y)

I wish I could try the camera first and see if this matters to me or not, but I must admit that I wished it just wasn’t there and that they had made some advances instead...
 

Mikehit

EOS 5D Mark IV
Jul 28, 2015
3,074
277
#5
It’s the same video I linked to at the top(y)

I wish I could try the camera first and see if this matters to me or not, but I must admit that I wished it just wasn’t there and that they had made some advances instead...
D'oh - I didn't realise it was a link. I need another coffee.
 

neuroanatomist

Spends too much time on this forum
Jul 21, 2010
23,360
399
#7
.I’ll probably get shot for posting this, but hey, it’s a concern to me...
It seems they agree with you - better image quality than 5DIV but more banding (after recovering about 5 and a half stops) but may be a processing issue.
I get that there are people for whom having a clean image after a 4+ stop push is a concern. What I don't get is why anyone who feels that way would be shooting Canon. It's like Charlie Brown hoping Lucy will hold that football steady...
 

Viggo

EOS 5DS R
Dec 13, 2010
3,352
62
#8
I get that there are people for whom having a clean image after a 4+ stop push is a concern. What I don't get is why anyone who feels that way would be shooting Canon. It's like Charlie Brown hoping Lucy will hold that football steady...
For the record I have never had any issue with this shooting the 1dx2, and only minor issues with the 1dx.

For me it’s not really about fixing exposure, but everything I do in raw conversion brings me further to this issue. Bumping saturation, using CC profiles, tone curves, slight evening out the exposure etc. If it was only an issue when bumping exposure 3-5 stops this wouldn’t matter at all, I always ETTR and usually either pull down exposure or most of the time don’t touch it at all.

What I’m saying is that why did they go backwards when they had solved this issue? If they just made it the same as the 5d4/1dx2 I wouldn’t even mentioned it...
 

neuroanatomist

Spends too much time on this forum
Jul 21, 2010
23,360
399
#9
What I’m saying is that why did they go backwards when they had solved this issue? If they just made it the same as the 5d4/1dx2 I wouldn’t even mentioned it...
Well, you know how they say every cloud has a silver lining? Lots of people are saying they just reused the sensor from the 5DIV...but apparently not. OK, maybe not silver but rather a poorly polished tin lining. ;)
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,118
117
118
#10
In my experience the 5D MkIV is not as impervious to banding as the 1DX MkII, the 1DX MkII is far and away the best sensor Canon make for resisting banding (there is none even with 5 stop lifts with additional shadow lifts, though plenty of color noise), but the 5D MkIV, so by assumption* the R, is better than the 1DX MkI was.

But yes, this comes with the proviso that inducing banding takes pretty dramatic shadow/exposure lifting in the order of an unusable/low quality exposure anyway.

* Yes we all know assumption is the mother of all ----up's.
 

Viggo

EOS 5DS R
Dec 13, 2010
3,352
62
#11
I wanna say thank you all for answering politely regarding this, I think I’m still buying and hopefully won’t see any issues. Every time I try to lift shadows I don’t like it, I then grab the slider look only at the picture and drag it back and forth until it looks good, and it’s ALWAYS on the minus side, darker than shot:LOL:
 
Oct 1, 2013
64
10
51
Germany
www.fotoflucke.de
#12
I wanna say thank you all for answering politely regarding this, I think I’m still buying and hopefully won’t see any issues. Every time I try to lift shadows I don’t like it, I then grab the slider look only at the picture and drag it back and forth until it looks good, and it’s ALWAYS on the minus side, darker than shot:LOL:
what strike's me is that you wrote you want to replace the 1DX II with an R model - that sounds odd to me as you will miss the frames per second (and the joystick ;-) ) - regardless of the banding "issue".
 
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tron

EOS 5DS R
Nov 8, 2011
3,725
118
#13
I pushed very hard my 5D4 to see banding at low ISO. But I had NEVER this issue in the real shots. Also I did not have banding at high iso shots (at least the ones I shot) up to ISO 20000 (FYI I was shooting at 1/40sec at f/1.4 with 85mm 1.4L IS: A young child was drinking milk in a room with light turned off and his mother just turned the light on in a nearby room for me to focus on the eye). The result had a lot of noise but it was properly exposed and after two denoising programs and a scale down the result - almost noise free - pleased the mother extremely (and she is a photographer). So a 5D4 is more than capable at least for my own needs. I wouldn't replace it for a camera with a sensor which obviously is not better (similar maybe but definitely not better).
 
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Likes: Viggo

tron

EOS 5DS R
Nov 8, 2011
3,725
118
#14
I wanna say thank you all for answering politely regarding this, I think I’m still buying and hopefully won’t see any issues. Every time I try to lift shadows I don’t like it, I then grab the slider look only at the picture and drag it back and forth until it looks good, and it’s ALWAYS on the minus side, darker than shot:LOL:
It is obviously your decision but selling your 1DxMkII and getting an EOS R seems like downgrading to me. A severe one!
 

Viggo

EOS 5DS R
Dec 13, 2010
3,352
62
#15
what strike's me is that you wrote you want to replace the 1DX II with an R model - that sounds odd to me as you will miss the frames per second (and the joystick ;-) ) - regardless of the banding "issue".
The thing is that I, due to health reasons, can’t carry the weight for more than 30-60 minutes ...

And I own and use the 35 L II and the 85 L IS, and the 85 is what I have both for all the portrait and other stuff that it’s great for, but also what I have to shoot my sons soccer games etc, and the 85 is like holding down the brake pedal on a Ferrari, it won’t focus well/fast enough. I used to own the 200 f2 and soccer with 1dx2 and 200 was pretty much flawless at f2.0, but the 85 holds the camera back. And since I’m happy with the lens and won’t be selling it or buying a new sport-type-lens, I see no point in having the 1dx2 AF monster, and with the R, if I get those 5 fps in focus, that’s better than I’m getting now:p
 

tron

EOS 5DS R
Nov 8, 2011
3,725
118
#16
The thing is that I, due to health reasons, can’t carry the weight for more than 30-60 minutes ...

And I own and use the 35 L II and the 85 L IS, and the 85 is what I have both for all the portrait and other stuff that it’s great for, but also what I have to shoot my sons soccer games etc, and the 85 is like holding down the brake pedal on a Ferrari, it won’t focus well/fast enough. I used to own the 200 f2 and soccer with 1dx2 and 200 was pretty much flawless at f2.0, but the 85 holds the camera back. And since I’m happy with the lens and won’t be selling it or buying a new sport-type-lens, I see no point in having the 1dx2 AF monster, and with the R, if I get those 5 fps in focus, that’s better than I’m getting now:p
It gets down to 3fps if you set it to focus priority.
 
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tron

EOS 5DS R
Nov 8, 2011
3,725
118
#18
I thought it was with the “continuous AF” it dropped to three and 5 in normal servo AF?
I think it has to do with whether we give priority to shooting or to focus in AI-Servo mode. At least these are the two selections in the rest of the Canon DSLRs...
 
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tron

EOS 5DS R
Nov 8, 2011
3,725
118
#20
How about testing focus with the 135 f/2L (with the 1DxII) ? It is cheaper and lighter than a 70-200 2.8L IS II