So what has become of the rumored EOS R and C200 video feature updates?

SecureGSM

EOS 6D MK II
Feb 26, 2017
935
62
WRT the decade long debate: stills vs video and get everything in one universal hybrid camera... even companies like SONY who are technology driven are being realistic about that:


  • Technology is the most important thing to Sony
Read more: http://sonyaddict.com/2019/04/04/dpr-cp-2019-sony-interview/#ixzz5kNFZaqiT
  • Stills and video have different needs so they should use different cameras
  • Sony doesn’t think you can make a perfect hybrid camera
Read more: http://sonyaddict.com/2019/04/04/dpr-cp-2019-sony-interview/#ixzz5kNEiRamL

so there we have it.
 
Reactions: Don Haines

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
7,909
1,262
Canada
WRT the decade long debate: stills vs video and get everything in one universal hybrid camera... even companies like SONY who are technology driven are being realistic about that:


  • Technology is the most important thing to Sony
Read more: http://sonyaddict.com/2019/04/04/dpr-cp-2019-sony-interview/#ixzz5kNFZaqiT
  • Stills and video have different needs so they should use different cameras
  • Sony doesn’t think you can make a perfect hybrid camera
Read more: http://sonyaddict.com/2019/04/04/dpr-cp-2019-sony-interview/#ixzz5kNEiRamL

so there we have it.
Yes, but the people who want the speed of a 1DX2, resolution of a 5Dsr, video of a C700, and cost of a T6 (used) will never agree with that...…..
 

Go Wild

EOS 80D
Dec 8, 2014
103
43
Yes, but the people who want the speed of a 1DX2, resolution of a 5Dsr, video of a C700, and cost of a T6 (used) will never agree with that...…..
Totally understand your point Don, of course, but if the market can give us that, by all means yes, we want that! :D

Of course the perfect thing to have is a dedicated camera for video, and a dedicated camera for stills. Some of you also can say...."Chill out man! Just do only stills, or do only video! Don´t do both!"
But these are thoughts from the past....nowadays it´s possible to do both and with high quality. And with the same camera!! If you are making big productions in video, and they pay you more than 50.000€ by production, well then you might need to think in delivering a product different of what a DSLR or mirrorless video can give to you. With that incoming you can think in cameras like the c700, the FS7 or alexa or Blackmagic or Arri! :)
But even in big productions we can shoot with high quality with mirrorless cameras, because they keep coming better and better and Atomos is doing a huge work providing external recorders than give you the hability of unleashing High quality features in video like prores raw.

I also solved the problem, I bought one 1dxmkII and at that time i wanted to buy the 5dsR, but then i looked to video specs....And they were not good. And this is ok, at the end of the day it is a Still camera. But then...i looked to the market...and wow!! A camera that have 42mp and great video features! Well...that´s what I want, that´s what i am going to buy! :) And I bought my first non Canon camera in 20 years......

Thing is...Canon must look at this. Canon must understand that this are no longer the 90´s or 2010. In these days yes...there are cameras in the market that can make those people happy, I can have almost a 1dxmkII ( A7r3 makes 10fps), with great video specs (ok, not a c700, but with atomos ninja gives me what i need) and at a cost of a 5dmkIV!

In Canon at this time, I can´t use my 1DxmkII with Atomos, it doesn´t allow me to record 4k in a external recorder! Can you imagine my frustration by having a top camera of 5000$ that doesn´t allow me this simple thing?? Not to mention zebras, focus peaking, C-log etc. Can you imagine the frustration of having a camera that records 4k60FPS with excelent image (with huge files but excelent)but lacking some basic features.... If Canon is not serious about giving the tools of video in a still camera, then it makes no sense giving possibility of professional image resource (4k60fps for example), but then cutting in some basic stuff....

At this time in Canon don´t have any camera (hybrid) that can compete with the market. The EOS R is a great camera, I loved the Canon move to mirrorless. Then i got angry by the huge amount of time they are taking to send to the market the "pro" bodys (specially because mirrorless cameras are in the market for years now!!). The R and RP are great, but still no good for most of photographers/videographers. Give you this has an example. What sense it makes to send to the market a great camera (EOS R) and then blow everything away with a stupid 120fps at 720p??? Not even youtubers want this!! They killed the camera for videographers with one single spec!!

I didn´t believe when I saw the rumor of the 4k prores raw external recording, that would be too damn good and honestly i don´t think Canon have "the bowls" to do that! Ohh and by the way, this only makes sense if they release also at least 1080p 120fps in external recording.

If Canon do this, then yes...EOS R gain another life! Still no good in FPS for stills, still doesn´t have the same eyefocus of Sony, but it´s a good way to go.

Well...but then..if Canon unleashes this in the EOS R....well this makes me think that a pro body is still way far on the horizon....Have a nice sunday!

I put here a link to the first presentation trailer that i am recording in Antarctica. I am going back there in November to finish the documentary. Thisi was filmed with the Canon 1dx mkII and Sony a7r3. would love to go back to Antarctica with a pro mirrorless Canon!!! :D

 
Last edited:

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
7,909
1,262
Canada
Don’t get me wrong, I like to shoot video. I have shot a fair bit of it on DSLRs. The quality of DSLRs for video is improving, but the controls are not. Once you have used a true video camera you gain appreciation for the relative ease of smooth zooming and focusing. Once you go off tripod, they are much easier to hold steady.

As to the codecs used, yes, they all seem to be far lower colour depth than is needed to do any significant post processing. Personally, I think we are at a knee in the curve. What is needed to significantly improve video on a DSLR is more computing power and faster storage. I think we are on the edge of its arrival.
 
Reactions: pj1974 and Go Wild

Go Wild

EOS 80D
Dec 8, 2014
103
43
Don’t get me wrong, I like to shoot video. I have shot a fair bit of it on DSLRs. The quality of DSLRs for video is improving, but the controls are not. Once you have used a true video camera you gain appreciation for the relative ease of smooth zooming and focusing. Once you go off tripod, they are much easier to hold steady.

As to the codecs used, yes, they all seem to be far lower colour depth than is needed to do any significant post processing. Personally, I think we are at a knee in the curve. What is needed to significantly improve video on a DSLR is more computing power and faster storage. I think we are on the edge of its arrival.
Yes, even with the Sony cameras and using the s-log or picture profiles you only have a small room to edit or post processing. If you do it too much everything starts falling apart...That´s the big difference to raw. It´s kinda like the stills world and editing jpg vs raw. You are right, a video camera is a video camera! You never get the true feeling of video and they do have a lot of advantages to a dslr or a mirrorless, but....but....:D The prices and most of all the portability....Then is the most big value form these hybrids (at least for me...) I can carry 2 cameras and both can film and shoot stills. In the past, if you wanted to film you must carry a videocamera and if you wanted to photograph you need another body, a stills camera. Now you can do both in every body! And this is insane! :D Atomos is playing a big role in here, not only being a great external recorder, but also in the controls and things we are able to control in the screen. It doesn´t transform completely a mirrorless or DSLR in a dedicated videocamera, but sure does help! :) Dedicated video-cameras shooting RAW are too expensive for most of the markets and that´s why mirrorless cameras are playing now big role in the market! They are way more cheaper and they deliver really good quality. Video cameras that are not interchangeable lenses i don´t really consider, because they give you big limitations in lenses (of course) and other things like controling DOF. For me, they are not so creative and more like documental style...

Let´s see what Canon do, I can´t wait to see a pro body (without mistakes!! :D ) Have nice Sunday Don!
 
Aug 1, 2017
291
166
My suggestion for a banner at Canon's NAB booth.

"Please refrain from attempting to shoot video with any Canon equipment outside of our Cinema line. We have taken measures to ensure that your experience will be unpleasant and ineffective.
If you insist on attempting to shoot video with a mirrorless stills/video hybrid; please visit the booths of our competitors. We are sure thay will be happt to assist you."

It could use a bit of word-smithing I suppose but I'll leave it up to the "geniuses' at Canon marketing to sort that out. ;)
 

peters

EOS T7i
Dec 25, 2017
52
47
I put here a link to the first presentation trailer that i am recording in Antarctica. I am going back there in November to finish the documentary. Thisi was filmed with the Canon 1dx mkII and Sony a7r3. would love to go back to Antarctica with a pro mirrorless Canon!!! :D

Wow, this looks incredible! Congratulation!
What kind of lenses/tripod/stabilization did you use to get that smooth shots?
 
Reactions: Go Wild

transpo1

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 12, 2011
723
74
I really cant here this tinfoil theory anymore :-D
What are the reasons that video production companies use cameras like the c300/700, reds, alexas, etc?
It is the professional and industry proven standards these cameras offer. Like XLR, proper Audio interfaces, buttons for all video settings, options for handles (build in, not attached with weird cages), big screens, SDI outputs, recording features to high end memory mediums like SSDs, reliability, raw, ports for everything, ..
If Canon would offer EXACTLY the same video quality from a c300 in a Canon EOS R II - than professional production companies would STILL not care about it. They would still not switch from the bigger and dedicated movie cameras. Nobody using a c300 and above would switch down to a mirrorless (unless the size is crucial and needed for a certain shot).

Canon does not need to "protect" the cinema line.
Thats like saying General Motors builds bad SUVs to "protect" their trucks....
I should add an addendum to my “like” on this comment:

But they do protect their cinema line.
 

peters

EOS T7i
Dec 25, 2017
52
47
I should add an addendum to my “like” on this comment:

But they do protect their cinema line.
I think canon is actualy having problems with the sensor readout and heat. They just cant process the full sensor in a decent speed and convert it to 4k. Thats why they stick to 1:1 pixel readout.
The 1DX II and 5D IV are offering excellent 4k quality with 1:1 pixel readout. But The full-hd image that uses the whole sensor and processes it down to 2mpixel is realy realy bad. We actualy switched to 2 gh4 for some videoproduction where we only need full-hd (but want better quality than the 1dx and 5d "hd"). The filesize wouldnt be feasable for these shootings, since we collect a lot of footage in a studio.
 
Reactions: Go Wild

RayValdez360

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2012
282
90
Yes, but the people who want the speed of a 1DX2, resolution of a 5Dsr, video of a C700, and cost of a T6 (used) will never agree with that...…..
That's false. Professionals with knowledge of cameras know the feature or camera tiers, know that the more you want, the more you have to pay. They dont expect RED quality and features in a REBEL or 5D. In the case of Canon, they see that they pay the same price or more for a Canon camera with less features than all the competition. Which is the reason why people switch from Canon canon to another brand. The majority of them switch because of video related features.
 
Reactions: Go Wild

Go Wild

EOS 80D
Dec 8, 2014
103
43
Wow, this looks incredible! Congratulation!
What kind of lenses/tripod/stabilization did you use to get that smooth shots?
Thank´s Peters! Hopefully it will be a good documentary when it´s finished. I use for filming the Canon 16-35 F4, 500mm f4 IS L, Tamron 70-200 F2.8 VC G2, this ones from Canon mount. From Sony, use the 24-105 F4 (but will change to the new Tamron 28-75 for E-mount. I also use the 50mm F1.8 from Canon sometimes.
For stabilization, I use the Feyutech a2000 with double hand bar (but honestly don´t recomend so much, I will change maybe for the new DJI or the new Zhiyun crane 3). The gimbal is very handfull specially in the rubber boats (zodiac boats) when filming in the water. In shore I use sturdy tripod with video head (S8 from Benro).
 

rrcphoto

EOS 5D MK IV
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
I think canon is actualy having problems with the sensor readout and heat. They just cant process the full sensor in a decent speed and convert it to 4k. Thats why they stick to 1:1 pixel readout.
The 1DX II and 5D IV are offering excellent 4k quality with 1:1 pixel readout. But The full-hd image that uses the whole sensor and processes it down to 2mpixel is realy realy bad. We actualy switched to 2 gh4 for some videoproduction where we only need full-hd (but want better quality than the 1dx and 5d "hd"). The filesize wouldnt be feasable for these shootings, since we collect a lot of footage in a studio.
you can't use logic with some people ;)

canon has alot of technical problems to overcome. but to some, they only do it to protect a cini line that has nothing to do with video in a DSLR/ILC.
 
Aug 1, 2017
291
166
Such as by not equipping their photo cameras with cooling fans needed for reliable video work?
More of the same old deflection. Countless hours of high quality video are reliably produced every year on devices without internal cooling fans.

Allowing the 1Dx Mark II and 5D Mark IV to export 4K over HDMI would have reduced the thermal load on those cameras not increased it. It would also have made those cameras very competitive with the Cinema cameras available at the time. The C200 has an internal fan but it can't stream 4K or write internally to a mid-level codec. If it could it would encroach on the C300 Mark II.

Canon is a private company and if they feel it's necessary protect their higher end products by limiting the features of lower cost models that's their prerogative. It's my prerogative to invest in equipement which I feel offers the most value and right now that is not Canon.

I don't expect Canon to be better than everybody else at every aspect of camera design. I understand there are challenges in developing the technology to produce a high end mirror-less line.

However, there are numerous things that Canon could do right now to enhance the video effectiveness of their cameras using proven, currently available, technology. The updates in the OP for instance.

Canon's competitors don't make perfect cameras but you often feel as though they are releasing the best products they are capable of delivering. In Canon's case it's usually closer to "what's the least we can get away with". If they don't feel absolutely compelled to release a feature they won't. As a result, they are falling behind.

When Canon is failing to catch up to the video offerings in a Nikon it's time to worry. Companies with little history in digital video (FujiFilm) are blowing past Canon like they are standing still. Some folks in this forum need to get out of their bubble.
 

peters

EOS T7i
Dec 25, 2017
52
47
Thank´s Peters! Hopefully it will be a good documentary when it´s finished. I use for filming the Canon 16-35 F4, 500mm f4 IS L, Tamron 70-200 F2.8 VC G2, this ones from Canon mount. From Sony, use the 24-105 F4 (but will change to the new Tamron 28-75 for E-mount. I also use the 50mm F1.8 from Canon sometimes.
For stabilization, I use the Feyutech a2000 with double hand bar (but honestly don´t recomend so much, I will change maybe for the new DJI or the new Zhiyun crane 3). The gimbal is very handfull specially in the rubber boats (zodiac boats) when filming in the water. In shore I use sturdy tripod with video head (S8 from Benro).
Nice work from the rubber boat! I could even get that great stable shots from a parking car in south africa :-D
 
Reactions: Go Wild

RayValdez360

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2012
282
90
More of the same old deflection. Countless hours of high quality video are reliably produced every year on devices without internal cooling fans.

Allowing the 1Dx Mark II and 5D Mark IV to export 4K over HDMI would have reduced the thermal load on those cameras not increased it. It would also have made those cameras very competitive with the Cinema cameras available at the time. The C200 has an internal fan but it can't stream 4K or write internally to a mid-level codec. If it could it would encroach on the C300 Mark II.

Canon is a private company and if they feel it's necessary protect their higher end products by limiting the features of lower cost models that's their prerogative. It's my prerogative to invest in equipement which I feel offers the most value and right now that is not Canon.

I don't expect Canon to be better than everybody else at every aspect of camera design. I understand there are challenges in developing the technology to produce a high end mirror-less line.

However, there are numerous things that Canon could do right now to enhance the video effectiveness of their cameras using proven, currently available, technology. The updates in the OP for instance.

Canon's competitors don't make perfect cameras but you often feel as though they are releasing the best products they are capable of delivering. In Canon's case it's usually closer to "what's the least we can get away with". If they don't feel absolutely compelled to release a feature they won't. As a result, they are falling behind.

When Canon is failing to catch up to the video offerings in a Nikon it's time to worry. Companies with little history in digital video (FujiFilm) are blowing past Canon like they are standing still. Some folks in this forum need to get out of their bubble.
Say it again. The people here are in a photography bubble. I dont think they respect people to do video for a living. DR, log profiles, focus assists. and framerates are more important for video than photography but half the people here proudly just say "I dont want video in my camera. i dont use it"