So where is the EF version of the new 50mm f/1.2?

Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
Mar 25, 2011
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I really doubt if we will see one, this is a area where the short flange back allows design of a much better lens, It a person wants $2K+ lenses, they won't mind buying a new R body for them will they?
 

YuengLinger

EOR R
Dec 20, 2012
2,311
330
Southeastern USA
I really doubt if we will see one, this is a area where the short flange back allows design of a much better lens, It a person wants $2K+ lenses, they won't mind buying a new R body for them will they?
So you're predicting the end of new higher-end lenses for EF? Or are you being facetious?

The new R mount is only fully compatible with supertelephoto lenses made in 2011 and after.
 

jd7

EOS 7D MK II
Feb 3, 2013
711
85
So you're predicting the end of new higher-end lenses for EF? Or are you being facetious?

The new R mount is only fully compatible with supertelephoto lenses made in 2011 and after.
I think this is actually a good question. I am not particularly keen to get an EOS R myself (because I still prefer OVF, short battery life, limited FPS in servo AF, etc) but I do wonder how much effort Canon will put into new EF lenses versus RF lenses. On the assumption a DSLR is going to remain better than a mirrorless for sports/action photography for a while yet, the new EF super teles make sense. However, is it possible that for fast primes which are likely to be used for things like portraits, such as the 50L, Canon will put all its efforts into RF now? If RF allows higher IQ (at least for that sort of lens/focal length), and considering mirrorless AF features (eg Eye-AF when using a very shallow depth of field), perhaps Canon won't bother with those sorts of lenses for EF in future?

A week ago I would have said there was no way the EF line was in any danger at all, but Canon does seem to be saying RF offers more advantages for lens design than I realised might be the case, and I get the feeling Canon sees RF as the future and that future may be closer than I was expecting.
 

YuengLinger

EOR R
Dec 20, 2012
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I think this is actually a good question. I am not particularly keen to get an EOS R myself (because I still prefer OVF, short battery life, limited FPS in servo AF, etc) but I do wonder how much effort Canon will put into new EF lenses versus RF lenses. On the assumption a DSLR is going to remain better than a mirrorless for sports/action photography for a while yet, the new EF super teles make sense. However, is it possible that for fast primes which are likely to be used for things like portraits, such as the 50L, Canon will put all its efforts into RF now? If RF allows higher IQ (at least for that sort of lens/focal length), and considering mirrorless AF features (eg Eye-AF when using a very shallow depth of field), perhaps Canon won't bother with those sorts of lenses for EF in future?

A week ago I would have said there was no way the EF line was in any danger at all, but Canon does seem to be saying RF offers more advantages for lens design than I realised might be the case, and I get the feeling Canon sees RF as the future and that future may be closer than I was expecting.
I agree. Nobody thought the EF lenses would be obsolete instantly, but if anybody with an open mind watches Rudy Winston's series of videos introducing the new FF mirrorless, Canon has clearly stated the R mount is the future of their pro/enthusiast line. Saying the R mount is "an addition, not a replacement," is soothing marketing talk.

Some of the hostility I've encountered when bringing up the possibility of the EF mount being retired is likely fueled by fear among photographers with a closet full of EF lenses. :confused:
 

padam

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 26, 2015
541
191
No I don't think it is at all. If we see a high-end RF mount Cinema camera, when we might see a very slow transition. But the fly-by-wire focus might not meet such a warm welcome there.

There will be new EF lenses like a 24-70/2.8 with image stabilisation.
They've made the 85/1.4 IS not too long ago as well, announced a brand new 70-200 f/4 IS II and so on. They are doing this the logical way, with as small overlapping as possible.

But of course if there are lenses which would appeal to a limited amount of buyers, they just won't make it, and the EF 50/1.2 is exactly like that, how many of the existing users would upgrade, if they saw the monumental increase in price weight and size?
 

jd7

EOS 7D MK II
Feb 3, 2013
711
85
No I don't think it is at all. If we see a high-end RF mount Cinema camera, when we might see a very slow transition. But the fly-by-wire focus might not meet such a warm welcome there.

There will be new EF lenses like a 24-70/2.8 with image stabilisation.
They've made the 85/1.4 IS not too long ago as well, announced a brand new 70-200 f/4 IS II and so on. They are doing this the logical way, with as small overlapping as possible.

But of course if there are lenses which would appeal to a limited amount of buyers, they just won't make it, and the EF 50/1.2 is exactly like that, how many of the existing users would upgrade, if they saw the monumental increase in price weight and size?
I had forgotten about the FBW focusing with the RF lenses ... which sounds like a negative to me, although I guess we need to wait and see what it's like in real use.

As for the recent releases of EF lenses like the EF 85/1.4L IS, etc, yes, they do suggest Canon hasn't given up on EF yet. Still, when you look at the MTFs for the RF 50/1.2L versus the EF 50mm lenses, and even the RF 28-70L versus the EF 24-70L II, it does seem like RF really might allow for a step forward in lenses. I know there is a lot more to a lens than its MTF so again we need to wait to see how the new lenses go in real use, but I am wondering about thet future of EF a lot more now than I was a week ago. I mean, 50mm is a commonly used focal length and both the EF 50/1.2L and EF 50/1.4 are fairly old designs, but instead of an update to either of those the first Canon high end 50mm in a long time is RF.

Anyway, personally I'll be happy if EF continues for the foreseeable future, but we will just have to wait and see I guess.
 
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padam

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 26, 2015
541
191
I had forgotten about the FBW focusing with the RF lenses ... which sounds like a negative to me, although I guess we need to wait and see what it's like in real use.

As for the recent releases of EF lenses like the EF 85/1.4L IS, etc, yes, they do suggest Canon hasn't given up on EF yet. Still, when you look at the MTFs for the RF 50/1.2L versus the EF 50mm lenses, and even the RF 28-70: versus the EF 24-70L II, it does seem like RF really might allow for a step forward in lenses. I know there is a lot more to a lens tan its MTF so again we need to wait to see how the new lenses go in real use, but I am wondering about thet future of EF a lot more now than I was a week ago. I mean, 50mm is a commonly used focal length and both the EF 50/1.2L and EF 50/1.4 are fairly old designs, but instead of an update to either of those the first Canon high end 50mm in a long time is RF.

Anyway, personally I'll be happy if EF continues for the foreseeable future, but we will just have to wait and see I guess.
It has more to do with the age of the lenses, it is six years older and also considerably lighter and cheaper. Back then it set a new general standard for sharpness while also becoming lighter then its predecessor.
There are advantages to the new mount of course and enabling other crazy designs, but overall it might not be night and day.
I expected the RF 50/1.2 to be shorter, but it seems that in that case you can't correct that well, if it still has internal autofocus, sealing, electronics, etc. and while I like fast lenses, in that case I might have preferred something slower (or relying more on software corrections) that is at least not that much heavier than the body itself. The RF 28-70/2 is borderline ridiculously heavy, but it does set a whole new standard, so I still like it.

You look at something like an EF 35/1.4 L II and you can see that while it might not be small, it is crazy sharp (actually slightly diffraction limited in the center reaching the peak at f/2.8 already) with almost no distortion or chromatic aberration at all.
It would be interesting to compare it to a Leica M 35/1.4 ASPH FLE or Zeiss ZM Distagon 35/1.4 lens on the EOS R to see how these two different design principles behave against each other (all I know is from using them, they are stiff competition)
I haven't taken a look at the RF 35/1.8 IS, but I would be surprised if the EF 35/1.4 L II wasn't beating it. But it is also a whole lot less cumbersome.

But you know, most of these newer lenses are so good generally, that a bit of MTF curve difference (with possible changes in measurement standards, like measuring the lowest EV AF with a faster lens...) won't make that much of a difference.
For instance apart from the distortion, the anciently old EF 35/1.4 is also very very sharp around at f/8, where the new lens 'degrades' to basically the same level or even a bit worse, because it was not optimized for that.
 
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YuengLinger

EOR R
Dec 20, 2012
2,311
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Southeastern USA
I had forgotten about the FBW focusing with the RF lenses ... which sounds like a negative to me, although I guess we need to wait and see what it's like in real use.

As for the recent releases of EF lenses like the EF 85/1.4L IS, etc, yes, they do suggest Canon hasn't given up on EF yet. Still, when you look at the MTFs for the RF 50/1.2L versus the EF 50mm lenses, and even the RF 28-70: versus the EF 24-70L II, it does seem like RF really might allow for a step forward in lenses. I know there is a lot more to a lens tan its MTF so again we need to wait to see how the new lenses go in real use, but I am wondering about thet future of EF a lot more now than I was a week ago. I mean, 50mm is a commonly used focal length and both the EF 50/1.2L and EF 50/1.4 are fairly old designs, but instead of an update to either of those the first Canon high end 50mm in a long time is RF.

Anyway, personally I'll be happy if EF continues for the foreseeable future, but we will just have to wait and see I guess.
Some of the very recent lens updates might include firmware to make them work better with the R mount adapter for EF. Rudy Winston said that only super-tele lenses built 2011 and after are fully compatible, so recent updates might include tweaks to make sure they are quick and accurate with the adapter.

If focus by wire is the new norm, and implemented with the feel of mechanical, I think it will be widely embraced.

padam's point about the limited appeal of a new 50mm 1.2L may be valid; I have no idea what the demand would be. But then why would one of the four lenses launched with the EOS R be a new version? I say EF is now a legacy technology that will be put out to pasture gradually--because of the massive "herd" of EF lenses in the hands of Canon customers.
 

LDS

EOR R
Sep 14, 2012
1,515
121
The new 50/1.2 looks to be fully designed to take advantage of the R mount design. The rear group, as shown in the R system white paper, is made with larger lenses closer to the sensor. I don't know if part of the design could be reused for an EF lens, but now I don't think it is possible.
 

te1973

I'm New Here
Nov 22, 2013
15
2
Canon seems to be completely without strategy.
On the one hand they consider the 50mm so important that it's one of the first lenses for the new system on the other
hand they do not update it since decades for the EF system. My point still is that the 50mm 1.2 EF is NOT properly
focussing for short distances even in live view. (focus shift) It's by design.
 

scipion

I'm New Here
Oct 8, 2017
12
8
the market will decide. Canon is not alone on the ef market, I doubt they are going to offer it to Sigma and Tamron! no chance!
there is already a 50mm 1.2. it may be not perfect, however it works on our reflex cameras for half price of the RF one...
 

BeenThere

EOS 6D MK II
Sep 4, 2012
829
161
Sure, some of the new lens designs will not be offered in EF mount. The big reason for the new short flange distance RF mount is the ability to produce new superior optical designs that were simply not possible in the EF mount. What is so hard to understand about that.
Over time, I believe that most of the Canon ff line of cameras and lens will migrate to RF. Then for remaining legacy EF glass there is an adapter.
 
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scipion

I'm New Here
Oct 8, 2017
12
8
MTF comparisons, like in the white paper, are not going to convince anyone. you need a real quantum jump to get a consumer decision. the new 28-70? no way, far too costly and heavy in my taste!! and I have still an "old" 28-70 L producing most excellent results - it is still a researched second hand product.
Canon is not going to make seppuku. they will continue to occupy all segments of the market, like they are doing very efficiently. engineering advancement will continue on reflex cameras.like on all their products. and in the end they will let the market decide.
as for today, after having already tried Sony, which is producing a (far) better product, as a consumer who prefer reflex cameras, I fail to identify why I would decide to by this one and thrown my reflex gear...
 
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YuengLinger

EOR R
Dec 20, 2012
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Sure, some of the new lens designs will not be offered in EF mount. The big reason for the new short flange distance RF mount is the ability to produce new superior optical designs that were simply not possible in the EF mount. What is so hard to understand about that.
Over time, I believe that most of the Canon ff line of cameras and lens will migrate to RF. Then for remaining legacy EF glass there is an adapter.
Superior? I'd be happy to have a 50mm that is equal to the new 35mm and new 85mm. What is so hard to understand about that?
 

dak723

EOS 6D MK II
Oct 26, 2013
1,141
434
.... I say EF is now a legacy technology that will be put out to pasture gradually--because of the massive "herd" of EF lenses in the hands of Canon customers.
Your prediction may be correct or may be completely wrong. The market will decide. Based on the initial comments in this forum, it seems as if most current Canon high end FF users have no intention to get the new camera, as their existing camera does what they want and need. Others see this as a new backup. Sports, Wildlife and Birders may NEVER switch to the new R due to battery issues.

Considering that Canon has put out 4 new EF lenses this year makes it seem like they have no intention of discontinuing the line. Considering that in North America and Europe DSLRs still outsell Mirrorless, only time will tell if DSLRs are phased out or will ALWAYS be sold side-by-side with mirrorless.

Even if - over the next decade - the EF lenses are put out to pasture, here's why you shouldn't worry.

1) You can use your existing lenses the rest of your life if needed (provided they don't break down). If I get the new R camera, I will be using an EF lens made in the late 1980's. Despite the hype, the improvements in lenses over the years have been minor, and if you don't pixel peep, many of the older lenses are as good as the newer models.

2) You will still be able to buy the existing EF lenses for many years to come - either new or used.
 

YuengLinger

EOR R
Dec 20, 2012
2,311
330
Southeastern USA
Your prediction may be correct or may be completely wrong. The market will decide. Based on the initial comments in this forum, it seems as if most current Canon high end FF users have no intention to get the new camera, as their existing camera does what they want and need. Others see this as a new backup. Sports, Wildlife and Birders may NEVER switch to the new R due to battery issues.

Considering that Canon has put out 4 new EF lenses this year makes it seem like they have no intention of discontinuing the line. Considering that in North America and Europe DSLRs still outsell Mirrorless, only time will tell if DSLRs are phased out or will ALWAYS be sold side-by-side with mirrorless.

Even if - over the next decade - the EF lenses are put out to pasture, here's why you shouldn't worry.

1) You can use your existing lenses the rest of your life if needed (provided they don't break down). If I get the new R camera, I will be using an EF lens made in the late 1980's. Despite the hype, the improvements in lenses over the years have been minor, and if you don't pixel peep, many of the older lenses are as good as the newer models.

2) You will still be able to buy the existing EF lenses for many years to come - either new or used.
All valid points, and I am accepting that innovation will be directed towards RF lenses. The new EF lenses you refer to seem to be clearing the old pipeline and perhaps including tweaks that make them work better with the RF adapter.
 

BeenThere

EOS 6D MK II
Sep 4, 2012
829
161
Superior? I'd be happy to have a 50mm that is equal to the new 35mm and new 85mm. What is so hard to understand about that?
So you think that Canon is going to release two wide aperture 50mm L lenses in two different mounts at about the same time? Good luck waiting for that.