Some deer - M6 Mk II

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,809
3,303
I didn't ask anybody to be a missionary, I asked either of the two keenest and vocal advocates of the software, and very regular posters here, to post an example that illustrated their enthusiasm. Neither would. All the rest I know.......
You wrote:
...free trials don't give you any experience in the programs use and it can take a big investment in time to come to the best use and workflow of a completely new (to the user) piece of software. I certainly haven't seen anything that makes me think that time investment is worth it.
If you can't be bothered to invest your time to educate yourself, don't expect Keith or me to jump to it and invest our time to do so, especially as you think we would be wasting our time anyway.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,963
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If you can't be bothered to invest your time to educate yourself, don't expect Keith or me to jump to it and invest our time to do so, especially as you think we would be wasting our time anyway.
Alan, really? My request was a simple one that would take virtually none of your time at all, just posting a before and after image of something you already have. If that is considered a big imposition then don't, I don't care. But don't turn and twist that simple request into me asking you to do all my learning as that simply isn't accurate or fair, you have posted hundreds of comparative images here proving obscure points before, that you aren't inclined to do that for this is absolutely fine but don't try and accuse me of being unreasonable or lazy.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
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I will, just not right now, for the reason I explained.
I stand corrected; neither have.

But I didn't ask for an M6 MkII image, any image you already have that you feel Noise Ninja did a really good job on was all I asked for. But it doesn't matter, it seems like I have hit a raw nerve so won't ask for such an imposition again from high profile posters.
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,809
3,303
Alan, really? My request was a simple one that would take virtually none of your time at all, just posting a before and after image of something you already have. If that is considered a big imposition then don't, I don't care. But don't turn and twist that simple request into me asking you to do all my learning as that simply isn't accurate or fair, you have posted hundreds of comparative images here proving obscure points before, that you aren't inclined to do that for this is absolutely fine but don't try and accuse me of being unreasonable or lazy.
I am not accusing you of being lazy - it was you who wrote that you did not wish to invest your time.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
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I am not accusing you of being lazy - it was you who wrote that you did not wish to invest your time.
I was saying to get the best out of any program it takes time, you and Keith have already invested that time and have both been very effusive and complimentary of the results you have gotten, I was simply asking to see those same results. I thought that was one of the things we did here, pointed people in directions that might make their results 'better', I have posted literally hundreds of illustrative images here, as have you, for the sole purpose of illustrating points and giving people truthful and unbiased visual confirmation of equipment and processes, I truthfully didn't think this was a big deal, or indeed any kind of intrusive request at all.
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,809
3,303
I was saying to get the best out of any program it takes time, you and Keith have already invested that time and have both been very effusive and complimentary of the results you have gotten, I was simply asking to see those same results. I thought that was one of the things we did here, pointed people in directions that might make their results 'better', I have posted literally hundreds of illustrative images here, as have you, for the sole purpose of illustrating points and giving people truthful and unbiased visual confirmation of equipment and processes, I truthfully didn't think this was a big deal, or indeed any kind of intrusive request at all.
You were pointed in the right direction: I posted you two links where an expert had written extensively about the programs, much more and better than I could have done.
 

StoicalEtcher

EOS 80D
Jan 3, 2018
181
83
Yorkshire
I was saying to get the best out of any program it takes time, you and Keith have already invested that time and have both been very effusive and complimentary of the results you have gotten, I was simply asking to see those same results. I thought that was one of the things we did here, pointed people in directions that might make their results 'better', I have posted literally hundreds of illustrative images here, as have you, for the sole purpose of illustrating points and giving people truthful and unbiased visual confirmation of equipment and processes, I truthfully didn't think this was a big deal, or indeed any kind of intrusive request at all.
Without really wishing to either get into, or extend, someone else's bun fight, I'd have to say that PBD has to be one of the most helpful of forum members here when it comes to sharing knowledge about what he knows, for no personal gain, including showing what he means.

Keep posting PBD, and if there's anything I could ever do to point you in a helpful direction (probably unlikely, due to my own shortcomings), I would! ;)
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
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Alan, I'd suggest taking another look at Photoshop, this is what I got after running my standard noise reduction and sharpening levels on the left hand image. Clearly Noise Ninja, whilst reducing noise to zero has a negative impact on color and detail.

11.jpg
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
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Without really wishing to either get into, or extend, someone else's bun fight, I'd have to say that PBD has to be one of the most helpful of forum members here when it comes to sharing knowledge about what he knows, for no personal gain, including showing what he means.

Keep posting PBD, and if there's anything I could ever do to point you in a helpful direction (probably unlikely, due to my own shortcomings), I would! ;)
Many thanks StoicalEtcher for those kind words, and Sporgon for agreeing. Mostly we can all help each other, sometimes we just get off on the wrong foot and it is easier to spend time writing clever insults than actually helping, but all is good.
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,809
3,303
Alan, I'd suggest taking another look at Photoshop, this is what I got after running my standard noise reduction and sharpening levels on the left hand image. Clearly Noise Ninja, whilst reducing noise to zero has a negative impact on color and detail.

View attachment 187407
No, it's no good. You can see the Moire in the feathers on the right half way down. Moire is the kiss of death.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
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No, it's no good. You can see the Moire in the feathers on the right half way down. Moire is the kiss of death.
No that's just the reduction to size for the forum, the original shows no moire. Oh, and FYI, Adobe do actually have an amazing moire filter, effectively a local color desaturation technique, it doesn't do much for pattern/interference moire but is very effective on this type of color interference.
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,809
3,303
You should have bought a 5DS Alan ;) :censored:
You are joking but here is some serious stuff from the help menu of PhotoNinja where you have a choice of what demosaicing to use. There is one setting for a conventional sensor with an AA-filter and others for those without, and it has an effect on Moire. It did work on one example better than PS and DPP, but I think I binned it. I have never found that anti-Moire filters be of any use with bird feather Moire.

From PhotoNinja

Photo Ninja uses a sophisticated demosaicing algorithm that yields natural-looking results with few interpolation artifacts, particularly when the camera uses an effective antialiasing filter. For cameras with inadequate antialiasing, Photo Ninja includes a more powerful algorithm that is among the best available for avoiding or reducing demosaicing errors.
The Strength setting determines which demosaicing algorithm is used:

  • The Conservative mode yields high-quality results with few artifacts for cameras that have proper antialiasing filters. This mode is the default and is recommended for most cameras.
  • The Moderate and Aggressive modes are specifically intended for cameras that lack antialiasing filters (usually certain medium-format and specialist SLRs). They can reduce directional artifacts and some cases of moire for such cameras. Demosaicing in the presence of aliasing is nearly pathological mathematically, so the algorithms are not perfect, and there is some risk that non-aliased edges will be adversely affected. However, on our suite of test images they work better than other algorithms that we have encountered. The Moderate and Aggressive modes are unnecessary and not recommended for conventional, antialiased cameras.
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,809
3,303
I have dug out some examples taken earlier this year with the 5DSR + 400mm DO II + 1.4xTC of a female kingfisher. Top is processed with DxO PL with PRIME noise reduction and lens sharpening on. Middle is PhotoNinja with standard conservative demosaicing, Bottom with Moderate demosaicing (all 100% crops). There is Moire in the wing feathers above the tail, which is least in the Moderate demosaicing. PN also automatically corrects highlights, which are noticeable in the DxO one.

3Q7A7207-DxO_Female_kingfisher_vvvvs.jpg
3Q7A7207_Kingfisher_conservative_demosaicing.jpg
3Q7A7207_Kingfisher_moderate_demosaicing.jpg
 
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