Sony Executive: Expects Canon and Nikon full frame mirrorless by this year

[Richard CR]

I’m sure this is quite worrying for Sony.

Up to now they have had this particular niche market for themselves; now it seems that Sony’s expecting competition soon.

DPReview interviewed Sony’s Senior General Manager of the Digital Imaging Business Group, Kenji Tanaka who has this to say;

Q: One of the reasons that companies like Sigma and Tamron are creating native Sony FE lenses is that they’re looking forward to a future where full-frame mirrorless is the norm. How long will that be?

A: This is just my personal opinion, but I think that maybe by next year’s CP+ you’ll see full-frame mirrorless cameras from Canon and Nikon. I think [by then] they will be participating in this market.

Just look at our technologies, like eye focus. All of that data comes from the imaging sensor. In DSLRs, the data comes from separate sensors. The main imaging sensor is blanked out, 90% of the time by the mirror. The sensor is turned off. But the imaging sensor is very important. So if cameras are going to develop, and be more able to capture the moment, manufacturers have to develop mirrorless technologies. So within one year, I think.

If Sony is thinking their own market is going to get more competition it’s probably a pretty good indication that both Canon and Nikon have serious development occurring as we speak.

Keep in mind that Canon has most of the pieces now demonstrated to make a fairly serious first version full frame mirrorless.

[list type=decimal]
[*]The 5D Mark IV sensor is competitive against it’s peers and supports over 24 million phase detection points on the sensor.

[*]DPAF and DIGIC 8 bring quicker AF, wider focus sensitivity which is now down to -2EV, and now supports Eye AF. For the video followers h.264 finally makes it into a camera DIGIC. All of these show up in the entry level EOS M50.
[/list]
While some questions still linger, how quick can DIGIC 8 run, and also how much support for video will there be, there’s good indications that Canon has certainly been working towards a full lineup of mirrorless cameras for a while now.

 

[BeenThere]

I don’t understand what is stopping Canon from putting out an entry level FF mirrorless camera now and getting some feedback to guide later pro-Sumer offerings.

 

[Woody]

Yup, this agrees with what Thom Hogan has been saying all along. I'm most puzzled why Canon Rumors said:

There is nothing on the 2018 road map that suggests Canon will be announcing a full frame mirrorless camera this year, though that could still change between now and Photokina, but we put the possibility of this happening quite low.

- http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=34660.msg711692#msg711692

Most bizarre.

 

[KirkD]

After the disappointment of the 6D II, I'll take a wait and see attitude. Along with FF mirrorless, I'd like to see in-camera image stabilization, two memory card slots, and an improved HDR on par with the Sony A7III. If Canon can do that, then I'm in.

 

[Richard CR]

I don’t understand what is stopping Canon from putting out an entry level FF mirrorless camera now and getting some feedback to guide later pro-Sumer offerings.

DIGIC, battery life, DPAF on a full frame sensor all had to be done first.

 

[Tugela]

I doubt Sony are too worried competitively, since they are already competing against DSLRs anyway. Head to head it is unlikely that either Canon or Nikon are able to produce a camera that would meet the capabilities of the a7 series, the only real advantage they have now are the benefits associated with optical viewfinders, such as they are. Take that away and Canikon are left with an inferior product.

It more likely will be the start of a very rapid decline in the DSLR space though as brand loyal people switch to MILC systems.

Those who say it will never happen are about to be in for a very rude awakening to reality

 

[Tugela]

I don’t understand what is stopping Canon from putting out an entry level FF mirrorless camera now and getting some feedback to guide later pro-Sumer offerings.

DIGIC, battery life, DPAF on a full frame sensor all had to be done first.

Based on the performance of the M50 I would say that the Digic processors are not quite there yet.

 

[neuroanatomist]

I doubt Sony are too worried competitively, since they are already competing against DSLRs anyway.

...awakening to reality

Sony used to compete against dSLRs directly, but they failed and bailed. Canon beat Sony for domestic MILC sales last year, and sells more FF ILCs than Sony, but you don't think Sony is too worried. I doubt you'd know reality if it bit you on the butt.

 

[Dantana]

I doubt Sony are too worried competitively, since they are already competing against DSLRs anyway. Head to head it is unlikely that either Canon or Nikon are able to produce a camera that would meet the capabilities of the a7 series, the only real advantage they have now are the benefits associated with optical viewfinders, such as they are. Take that away and Canikon are left with an inferior product.

It more likely will be the start of a very rapid decline in the DSLR space though as brand loyal people switch to MILC systems.

Those who say it will never happen are about to be in for a very rude awakening to reality

That seems pretty simplistic. Canon and Nikon both have a much better and diverse lens selection than Sony.

The A73 and A7r3 are super tempting in a vacuum, but I can’t get around the small selection of new and used native glass available.

 

[Richard CR]

I doubt Sony are too worried competitively, since they are already competing against DSLRs anyway. Head to head it is unlikely that either Canon or Nikon are able to produce a camera that would meet the capabilities of the a7 series, the only real advantage they have now are the benefits associated with optical viewfinders, such as they are. Take that away and Canikon are left with an inferior product.

It more likely will be the start of a very rapid decline in the DSLR space though as brand loyal people switch to MILC systems.

you massively underestimate the marketing muscle, and global machine of a nikon or canon.

Canon or nikon don't have to compete with sony, they will compete against each other and leave sony in the wake, not because of features but just because of everything else they can bring to bear on it.

If features were so important Sony would have been #1 years ago - they have always tried to win the war by tech, and it simply hasn't worked out for them. They tried with the A mount, flipped over to E mount APS-C than FE mount.

Mirrorless will overtake DSLR, only when Canon and Nikon deem it so - not by a Sony or Fuji.

 

[Richard CR]

I don’t understand what is stopping Canon from putting out an entry level FF mirrorless camera now and getting some feedback to guide later pro-Sumer offerings.

DIGIC, battery life, DPAF on a full frame sensor all had to be done first.

Based on the performance of the M50 I would say that the Digic processors are not quite there yet.

I doubt a full frame mirrorless would be powered by an LP-E12 .. there's alot that we don't know about how quick DIGIC 8 is.

and outside of 4K DPAF what performance problems is there with the M50?

 

[BeenThere]

I don’t understand what is stopping Canon from putting out an entry level FF mirrorless camera now and getting some feedback to guide later pro-Sumer offerings.

DIGIC, battery life, DPAF on a full frame sensor all had to be done first.

DPAF has been done on a full frame sensor. Battery life is a function of battery size. Bigger battery = longer life. Digic maybe, but dual digic has been used before.

 

[Isaacheus]

I don’t understand what is stopping Canon from putting out an entry level FF mirrorless camera now and getting some feedback to guide later pro-Sumer offerings.

DIGIC, battery life, DPAF on a full frame sensor all had to be done first.

Based on the performance of the M50 I would say that the Digic processors are not quite there yet.

I doubt a full frame mirrorless would be powered by an LP-E12 .. there's alot that we don't know about how quick DIGIC 8 is.

and outside of 4K DPAF what performance problems is there with the M50?

Not really a major performance issue, but the crop factor is also a bit of a concern: not that it bothers me here at this level (the lack of dpaf is the real drawback) but on a full frame model, I'd definitely hope for no crop.

I'll be very interested to see what Canon include in a mirrorless full frame, I'm hoping they'll be able to match the features of the latest Sony's, focus peaking, zebras, silent shooting, Ibis, 120 fps video etc, along with the typical Canon pluses.

 

[captainkanji]

I’d love to see a FF mirrorless that used EF lenses natively. I’m over due for a new body and I’m going to Japan again in 3 years. I just hope they make it a serious competitor.

 

[Yasko]

After the disappointment of the 6D II, I'll take a wait and see attitude. Along with FF mirrorless, I'd like to see in-camera image stabilization, two memory card slots, and an improved HDR on par with the Sony A7III. If Canon can do that, then I'm in.

I always wonder what everyone has to say against the 6D except the echoing "no 4K" and "miserable dynamic range"...
4K is obviously true, there is none. The dynamic range may be obvious when you lift shadows at 100 ISO by 4+ Stops... but who does that? I would say one rarely does that. On top there is bracketing when you want that pristine HDR effect.
The 6D mark II is an allrounder, and a very good one. One should focus more on the core tasks of a camera than all these bells and whistles that are put into a body with 2nd class handling, compared to Canon cameras bad reliability as soon as some rain drops or the temperature in the sun is exceeding 25°C..., bad battery life or as with Sony with an experimental menu experience on top.

I highly doubt that most of those who declare the 6d mk II a fail have
1.) ever had one in their hands and apart of it have USED one...
2.) ever had one of their "favorite" XY camera manufacturers camera in their hands and are telling tales from spec sheets
3.) a well established idea of what is generally important in photography. Yes, a good tool is always desirable, I guess pretty much any camera is a good tool by that means. They seem to be more in the "techie"-department than into photography, that doesn't state they are not into photography. Else, as I said... the 6D mark II's DR is better than it is stated in a lot of videos that jumped onto the boo-train.

 

[jolyonralph]

I’d love to see a FF mirrorless that used EF lenses natively. I’m over due for a new body and I’m going to Japan again in 3 years. I just hope they make it a serious competitor.

I think eventually you'll get just this - I think the next 1DX will likely be a FF mirrorless (or possibly a hybrid OVF/EVF) but not until 2021 I'd guess.

Before that you'll see a new semi-pro FF body from camera, and that will use the EF-M mount or some variant of it. Why? Canon could have made the EF-M mount smaller for APS-C and made even more compact/cheaper lenses. But they stuck to the size they did because that is the minimum size needed for a full-frame lens. Why do that if you're not going to use the mount for that?

Also, there's going to be a lot of people in the future wanting to upgrade from EF-M to full frame, and unlike EF-S to EF there's no reason the existing EF-M lenses couldn't be used (albeit in crop) on FF cameras.

Jolyon

 

[transpo1]

I don’t understand what is stopping Canon from putting out an entry level FF mirrorless camera now and getting some feedback to guide later pro-Sumer offerings.

DIGIC, battery life, DPAF on a full frame sensor all had to be done first.

2.5x 4K crop is a problem. And are we sure lack of DPAF in 4K is a limitation? Sounds suspiciously like a marketing decision.

Based on the performance of the M50 I would say that the Digic processors are not quite there yet.

I doubt a full frame mirrorless would be powered by an LP-E12 .. there's alot that we don't know about how quick DIGIC 8 is.

and outside of 4K DPAF what performance problems is there with the M50?

 

[transpo1]

I don’t understand what is stopping Canon from putting out an entry level FF mirrorless camera now and getting some feedback to guide later pro-Sumer offerings.

DIGIC, battery life, DPAF on a full frame sensor all had to be done first.

Based on the performance of the M50 I would say that the Digic processors are not quite there yet.

I doubt a full frame mirrorless would be powered by an LP-E12 .. there's alot that we don't know about how quick DIGIC 8 is.

and outside of 4K DPAF what performance problems is there with the M50?

Not really a major performance issue, but the crop factor is also a bit of a concern: not that it bothers me here at this level (the lack of dpaf is the real drawback) but on a full frame model, I'd definitely hope for no crop.

I'll be very interested to see what Canon include in a mirrorless full frame, I'm hoping they'll be able to match the features of the latest Sony's, focus peaking, zebras, silent shooting, Ibis, 120 fps video etc, along with the typical Canon pluses.

4K crop is a huge issue. That and DPAF are what are keeping me from buying it.

 

[littleB]

I highly doubt that most of those who declare the 6d mk II a fail have
1.) ever had one in their hands and apart of it have USED one...
2.) ever had one of their "favorite" XY camera manufacturers camera in their hands and are telling tales from spec sheets
3.) a well established idea of what is generally important in photography. Yes, a good tool is always desirable, I guess pretty much any camera is a good tool by that means. They seem to be more in the "techie"-department than into photography, that doesn't state they are not into photography. Else, as I said... the 6D mark II's DR is better than it is stated in a lot of videos that jumped onto the boo-train.

I have the same feeling. Paper (spec only) comparisons are so common nowadays. I always like when people do a well-founded and unbiased comparisons.
I was really amazed at Dustin Abbot's 5D4 vs Sonys multi-part review, because I know he used both systems simultaneously, and have genuine right to discuss the differences, free from any bias. As it turned out, the Canon vs Sony situation is not that black and white as some very vocal Sony supporters say. Each system has pros and cons, if judging real life usage. In one other review I saw quite ugly banding in night street photos from Sony A7R3, variable from frame to frame, likely from sodium vapor lights or whatever. The same shots by Canon were nowhere near that bad, and very consistent. I hear no cries from Sony side about such kind of fllaws. The real world experience is never that polarised as the forums tell us.
A few users here were quite sceptical about the 6D2, but when got it, they found that camera to be quite usable. When they finally got it, they did not start that DR talk or whatever, but rather concentrated on creative side of photography.

For me it was special fun and inspiration watching youtube videos of cheap camera challenges of digital rev, where Kai handed extremely cheap and crippled toy cameras to some well-known photographers, and they still managed to do the job. For it means that creative side of photography shoud be much more important than techonology aspect. A vision of the photo is much more important than DR, fps, or MP.

 

[tmroper]

In DSLRs, the data comes from separate sensors. The main imaging sensor is blanked out, 90% of the time by the mirror. The sensor is turned off.

That's not true when in Live View is it? If it is, why would the mirror have to be up when in Live View mode?