Stacked TCs - 1.4x III + 12mm Extension Tube + 2x III

[mackguyver]

I'm just wondering if anyone has tried stacking their Mk III extenders with the 12mm extension tube and attaching that to a Mk II super telephoto. I realize it would compromise image quality considerably, but I have all the parts other than the 12mm extension tube, and could see myself using it in some situations. I ask because I see George Lepp using similar combos with good results (see below) and wonder if it's worth getting the 12mm tube to use the extenders with my 300 2.8 IS II. I plan to use it for its intended purpose, but was curious about stacked TC results, too.

http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/how-to/shooting/extreme-close-up.html

 

[Deleted member 91053]

I can't speak for Mk3 extenders but I have tried stacked Mk2 extenders (no extension tube needed). On a early EF 400 F2.8 L the results weren't too bad and on a 600 F4 L IS they were a bit poorer. Stacked extenders didn't give me useable images but did give record shots that I would not have got otherwise. Both the lenses and the Mk2 2 x extender have since been traded and replaced with a 300 f2.8 IS, an 800 F5.6 IS and a 2 x Mk3. I haven't tried stacking extenders since but can confirm that the 2x Mk3 is considerably better than the Mk2 so there may be some potential in your idea.
P.S. My 300 F2.8 is a Mk1 and the 2 x Mk3 works VERY well with it.

 

[Eldar]

There was some posts about this in an earlier thread, can´t recall which. I believe Neuro tried it.

I have the III-extenders and the 12mm extension tube. I´ll try it with the 600mm when I get home.

 

[mackguyver]

Thanks for the replies and I'll try to find the old post. Also, Eldar, I remember reading somewhere that the order matters, and the IQ is better if one or the other is the one closest to the lens. I'm guessing lens-1.4x-tube-2x-body, but you might want to try both. Also, as George Lepp says, a remote shutter, solid tripod, etc. is paramount to get good results - not that you'd want to hand hold a 1680mm lens

 

[surapon]

I'm just wondering if anyone has tried stacking their Mk III extenders with the 12mm extension tube and attaching that to a Mk II super telephoto. I realize it would compromise image quality considerably, but I have all the parts other than the 12mm extension tube, and could see myself using it in some situations. I ask because I see George Lepp using similar combos with good results (see below) and wonder if it's worth getting the 12mm tube to use the extenders with my 300 2.8 IS II. I plan to use it for its intended purpose, but was curious about stacked TC results, too.

http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/how-to/shooting/extreme-close-up.html

Thanks for the great Link, Dear Mr. mackguyver.
Yes, Sir I will try tomorrow morning with my dear 600 mm. 1.4 X MK II and 25 mm. Tube and let you know.
Have a good Saturday night, Sir.
Surapon

 

[mackguyver]

I gave it a try with my 25mm Extension Tube, but as I suspected, this doesn't work very well because there's too much room between the extenders and you lose infinity focus. Shooting closer objects works pretty well, but it's a very cloudy, dark day here, making manual focus quite difficult and the IS helps, but not a lot. It looks like the 2x closest to the body has more contrast, but again, the weather has made testing this very difficult.

 

[Skulker]

here's one with a 12mm extension tube. I don't know if all lenses will do this. its a 300mm 2.8 with both converters.

on a light weight tripod, so it could have been better with better support.

 

[Caps18]

I have done this with a 300mm f/4 and a 1.4x II, 25mm tube, and 2x II. With my 5Dm2, I was still short of filling the entire frame.

The details are good, and I'm not sure if the atmosphere helped blur it at all (it was a cold day in February), but I would have liked to have another 2x or more. When I turned it towards Mars and Jupiter, I figured I would need to get up to something like 2700mm+.

 

[AlanF]

There was a thread about this. On the basis of the posts, I bought a Canon extension tube for my 1.4x and 2x series III TCs and 300mm f/2.8 II . The lens wouldn't focus on a 5DIII, irrespective of the order of the TCs.

 

[yorgasor]

I thought all the extenders would do is allow you to focus closer up, but you lose infinity focus. Is there some other magic that happens when you put an extension tube between a 1.4x and a 2x magnifier?

 

[neuroanatomist]

I thought all the extenders would do is allow you to focus closer up, but you lose infinity focus. Is there some other magic that happens when you put an extension tube between a 1.4x and a 2x magnifier?

The MkIII extenders cannot be physically stacked - putting the extension tube between them gets around that limitation.

 

[Skulker]

There was a thread about this. On the basis of the posts, I bought a Canon extension tube for my 1.4x and 2x series III TCs and 300mm f/2.8 II . The lens wouldn't focus on a 5DIII, irrespective of the order of the TCs.

Have you tried manual Focus? Or using live View? Both work for me on the 5D.

normal A can be hit or miss. It's hardly surprising as we are doing something canon specifically don't facilitate as the converters don't stack.

 

[Caps18]

I put the 2x closest to the camera, then the 25mm tube, and the lens+1.4x on it. I used the live view mode and pushed the AF button to focus. It isn't the fastest, but it was able to lock in.

The next question is, other than the Moon pictures, there isn't much to gain from this setup. I don't actually own a 2x, I borrowed the one for this test. You do need a stable tripod and a slow moving subject. Maybe if you are a PI and looking to get some covert pictures...

 

[yorgasor]

I thought all the extenders would do is allow you to focus closer up, but you lose infinity focus. Is there some other magic that happens when you put an extension tube between a 1.4x and a 2x magnifier?

The MkIII extenders cannot be physically stacked - putting the extension tube between them gets around that limitation.

Ah, thanks. I guess I just assumed they could normally be stacked. I'm surprised the extension tube doesn't prevent the combo from focusing to infinity. I also saw some notes about using an extension tube between multipliers and lenses that don't normally allow them. I'm going to have to play around with that and see what kind of results I can get

 

[AlanF]

There was a thread about this. On the basis of the posts, I bought a Canon extension tube for my 1.4x and 2x series III TCs and 300mm f/2.8 II . The lens wouldn't focus on a 5DIII, irrespective of the order of the TCs.

Have you tried manual Focus? Or using live View? Both work for me on the 5D.

normal A can be hit or miss. It's hardly surprising as we are doing something canon specifically don't facilitate as the converters don't stack.

I'll try again when there is a clear moon, and use the 70D.

 

[mackguyver]

I found some posts about stacking Mk II or Mk II + Mk III extenders, but didn't see any about two Mk IIIs. Skulker & Caps18, thanks for the posts, though I'm not sure how Caps18 took the shot with a 25mm tube. I tried mine and could not (manually) focus on anything that was more than about 20 feet away - I lost infinity focus. I see it was with the Mk II converters, so maybe that was why it worked.

Alan, since you have the same set up I'm looking to use 300 II + 1.4x & 2x III + 12mm tube, do you mean it wouldn't autofocus or do you mean it wouldn't (manual) focus at all using the 12mm tube?

P.S. I found this post from this thread (http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=9908.msg179147#msg179147) and now I'm really confused because I have read that they can be stacked with the 12mm tube in several places from respected sources:

So I just tested the canon 2XIII stacked with the canon 1.4xIII using an extension tube in between on my 300mm 2.8L. 12mm tube did not offer enough clearance to stack them but was successful using the 25mm tube. In camera AF did not work, manual focus worked, so did Live View AF. However as expected it would not infinity focus. I got maybe 25-30ft before reaching the stop. for those interested in close up high magnification shots this may be an option while still using the canon high quality III extenders stacked.

You can stack a 2X II and 2X III but not two III's. The IQ loss is significant. Better than not getting the shot but from a practical standpoint you are better off just cropping using a 2XIII only.

I personally think most of the loss is due to the 2XII.

I've heard of people using two IIIs with an extension tube in between but again you wont get an infinity focus...only good for closer up work. I haven't tried that but I will and see how it works out.

 

[neuroanatomist]

I thought all the extenders would do is allow you to focus closer up, but you lose infinity focus. Is there some other magic that happens when you put an extension tube between a 1.4x and a 2x magnifier?

The MkIII extenders cannot be physically stacked - putting the extension tube between them gets around that limitation.

Ah, thanks. I guess I just assumed they could normally be stacked.

The MkII (and MkI) versions can be stacked directly, and you can stack a MkII behind a MkIII. You just can't stack two MkIII's together (the extra elements in them compared to the MkII's didn't leave enough space at the back for the protrusion of the other extender).

 

[K-amps]

I think it is by design... they could have extended the barrel length allowing two mk.iii's to be stacked and also used with other lenses like the 70-300L native.

 

[mackguyver]

I think it is by design... they could have extended the barrel length allowing two mk.iii's to be stacked and also used with other lenses like the 70-300L native.

That's correct, Canon intentionally blocked the ability to stack Mk III teleconverters because, according to Chuck Westfall (http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2011/updates_supertelephoto_article.shtml)
"Canon does not recommend stacking Series III EF Extenders because the extenders’ optical performance and AF precision cannot be guaranteed in such cases."

I have read that they can be stacked with the 12mm tube, however, and that's what I'm curious about. Does it work (i.e. can they stack), and is it worth buying a 12mm tube, assuming the IQ isn't compromised to the point of being unusable or infinity focus is lost? I don't care about AF or having perfect IQ, but if it's decent and can be used in rare situations, I'd like to buy the tube.

 

[AlanF]

Here is the previous thread (5 pages): http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=13075.0