The Canon EOS 5D Mark V is in the works [CR2]

sfeinsmith

EOS M50
Aug 23, 2016
25
17
I glad to learn about Canon is working on EOS 5D Mark V, but it was not one that I need from Canon. Where is your plan for ultra-high-resolution EOS 5DS R Mark II included full 4K video mode with encrypted WiFi, GPS, and Bluetooth 4.0?
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
996
485
I think its 4 years on the top of the line models.
I agree with you, though its not that drastic. I got the 1DX II and it feels a bit "dated" in some of its features. Another codec option and a better touch integration (cant use touch in menu, which is silly) would be good. Also intervallometer and 4k HDMI output (only FHD). Waiting one more year for the next model feels a bit long for me.
I am in the silly situation where a C200 would be a bit overkill (I do photo AND video work, so I would love a good hybrid) but the 1DX II is a bit lacking the video front. And sadly the 5D IV, while great in photo, is quite a disaster in video mode. I think a 5D V right now would be great. A bit more resolution, a bit better video features and it would be great improvement. But waiting nearly 2 more years? brr
It's currently the tenth month of 2019. Feb/March 2021 is only 16-17 months away. That's not even a year and one-half.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
996
485
How do you define the darkest part your sensor can capture? Is it true black (pixel value of 0 for each channel)? Would that not lead to every sensor having almost exactly 14 stops of DR?

My understanding of Photons to Photos definition of this is the part where the noise transitions from being not to distracting too distracting. How visible the noise is is clearly related to your viewing distance / enlargement. So he adjusts the measured SNR to take this into account. And then the point where the adjusted SNR drops below his threshold is what he defines as his "darkest part".

I don’t understand how your concept of this part works. Could you please elaborate or give some site that uses that way of measuring?
Equating 1-bit to one stop of DR is just as misinformed as equating each zone in Adams' Zone System to one stop. The whole point of the zone system was to stretch or compress the DR of the scene into the DR of the display medium.
 

Quarkcharmed

EOS 5DMkIV
Feb 14, 2018
519
370
Australia
www.michaelborisenko.com
Equating 1-bit to one stop of DR is just as misinformed as equating each zone in Adams' Zone System to one stop. The whole point of the zone system was to stretch or compress the DR of the scene into the DR of the display medium.
But 1 extra bit does mean 1 extra stop of the DR. Only that it adds to the theoretical limit, and in practice 14-bit sensors have less than 14 stops of the DR.
 

Joules

EOS RP
Jul 16, 2017
323
251
Hamburg, Germany
Equating 1-bit to one stop of DR is just as misinformed as equating each zone in Adams' Zone System to one stop. The whole point of the zone system was to stretch or compress the DR of the scene into the DR of the display medium.
I'm sorry, but I'm not familiar with Adam and his Zone System I think.

And for linear RAW data, why is 1 bit different than 1 stop of DR, if noise is ignored?
 

Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,354
744
Even a single pixel has its own dynamic range
Yes, but it lacks spatial information, which is essential for photography.

DR is related to the information but it's defined differently. It is not the amount of information. It's the difference between the darkest and brightest parts the sensor can capture. It's a contributing factor but definitely not the amount of information.
For a single pixel, yes. For a photography, no. Every spatial frequency has its own DR.

In Photostophotos method, they also use some arbitrary constants like size of the print seen a certain distance. So changing the distance or print size changes the DR. If we make the prints bigger, the DR will drop. That sounds odd doesn't it?
No, it doesn't. They effectively measure the weighted DR across the spatial frequencies that they think are contributing to the photography. While their weights are somewhat arbitrary, they are still more suitable for the task than measuring a single-pixel DR.
 

Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,354
744
But 1 extra bit does mean 1 extra stop of the DR. Only that it adds to the theoretical limit, and in practice 14-bit sensors have less than 14 stops of the DR.
Theoretically, that's only true for linear sensors. A sensor with a concave [monotonic] transfer function (log, softly saturating...) can record a higher dynamic range of the scene. So, in the case of Adams, it was definitely false for b&w negative film.
 
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Mar 15, 2018
37
38
United States
One likely downside to a more rapid product cycle is that Canon will start to hold back on software updates to the EOS R to create product segmentation with the next generation of 5DV/Rii. IBIS and BSI are the only two significant technologies Canon has yet to implement. Is there anything else on the horizon that most photographers would care about? After these two, it's going to be a long time of very minimal, iterative hardware improvements, like with the iPhone, and increasingly more complex AI software updates.
 

koenkooi

EOS 7D MK II
Feb 25, 2015
491
290
One likely downside to a more rapid product cycle is that Canon will start to hold back on software updates to the EOS R to create product segmentation with the next generation of 5DV/Rii. IBIS and BSI are the only two significant technologies Canon has yet to implement. Is there anything else on the horizon that most photographers would care about? After these two, it's going to be a long time of very minimal, iterative hardware improvements, like with the iPhone, and increasingly more complex AI software updates.
Global shutter would be a big one, but AFAICT that still comes with the downside of soaking up a stop of light.
 
Jul 31, 2019
6
0
Canon doesn't follow anyone, they follow Canon!
Said that they know EOS R series was a punch in sales, but a lot photographers (not filmmakers) still going with DSLR.
I use EOS R for everything including filmmaking, but when I need to photograph soccer or NFL I back to 5DMkIV...because everyone knows if EOS RX comes will cost around $5.900, and that I'm not able to afford than probably I will still going with 5DMkV.
 

Quarkcharmed

EOS 5DMkIV
Feb 14, 2018
519
370
Australia
www.michaelborisenko.com
No, it doesn't. They effectively measure the weighted DR across the spatial frequencies that they think are contributing to the photography. While their weights are somewhat arbitrary, they are still more suitable for the task than measuring a single-pixel DR.
Because of this arbitrariness, they're suitable for comparisons between different sensors, but again - the absolute DR values are meaningless. They only make sense when you print 8"x10" a view at a certain distance. or when you accidentally view the image with the same scaling on your screen.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,907
1,050
119
So how many bits and what type of ADC did Adams have in his b&w negative film?
His recording medium, at best, was 11 stops of DR. His reproduction medium, photographic paper, at the very best with whiteners and good lighting 7 stops of DR. Of course if you digitize it the argument is you don't need more then the 11 stops of the original capture medium but it is nice to have some headroom. But basically any modern digital camera or scanner could be used to digitize any of Adams work without loss of quality.

Having said that if you used a 16 bit process and 8,000 pixels per inch you'd be at the level of resolving the film grain and have a decent enough headroom in bit depth to save any lurking shadow details deep in the negatives.
 
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privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,907
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Because of this arbitrariness, they're suitable for comparisons between different sensors, but again - the absolute DR values are meaningless. They only make sense when you print 8"x10" a view at a certain distance. or when you accidentally view the image with the same scaling on your screen.
Of course its arbitrary, ultimately it has to be because as a visual medium it is, by definition, different for every person looking at it. That is why dof is rated at 'acceptably in focus'. Similarly the bottom value, if it isn't zero which isn't realistic, is also arbitrary and can vary by scene and luminosity. But manufacturers measure to zero which is why they say this or that camera has 15 stops of DR, which technically it does, but we can't use more than 12 because all the signal below x% is drowned in noise. But at what point is too much noise too much, that is dependent on the viewer, arbitrary.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,907
1,050
119
So what the numbers are giving you is a constant, if you find the value to be acceptable then anything with that same value will appear similar, anything above it will look better and anything below it will look worse. If you find the value to be too high or low you can still use the figures because you know what other sensors are like in comparison.
 

amorse

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 26, 2017
479
481
www.flickr.com
I glad to learn about Canon is working on EOS 5D Mark V, but it was not one that I need from Canon. Where is your plan for ultra-high-resolution EOS 5DS R Mark II included full 4K video mode with encrypted WiFi, GPS, and Bluetooth 4.0?
All of the rumours have suggested that the 5DSR II is not coming and a comparable camera would be released in mirrorless. I probably wouldn't hold my breath for a 5DSR II, but I am hoping that the mirrorless equivalent will hold true to the 5DSR's build quality.