The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]

[rrcphoto]

@RRC Please elaborate and explain why it’s a myth.

it's a myth that Canon cares so much about it.

Canon has actually stated the reverse. They view as their products as competing against each other.

Canon is bright enough to realize a cheap M6 styled 4K camera isn't going to compete against any other camera canon currently has, and if the user buys that so what? they stayed within the ecosystem.

 

[unfocused]

@RRC Please elaborate and explain why it’s a myth.

it's a myth that Canon cares so much about it...

...Canon is bright enough to realize a cheap M6 styled 4K camera isn't going to compete against any other camera canon currently has, and if the user buys that so what? they stayed within the ecosystem.

Yes. I am amused (but also frustrated) by this myth that Canon "hobbles" one product to benefit another.

Every company differentiates between products. To expect that a low-cost product should have the same features as a high-end product is goofy. It doesn't happen in any other industry or with any other product. Why should we expect Canon to put the same feature set in cameras that cost a fraction of what the higher end bodies cost?

 

[unfocused]

I suspect we have seen the last of the enthusiast level Canons that do not have 4K. Whichever comes next, the 90D or the 7DIII will almost certainly offer 4K. And, then, forum dwellers can move on from "Canon is cheating me by not offering 4K" to "Canon is cheating me by not offering the same level of 4K that they offer in their Cinema EOS line."

 

[JBSF]

I just don't get why Honda has to cripple the Civic, when they could put the 573 hp NSX engine/drivetrain and suspension in it and sell it to me for $18K.

 

[tmroper]

It will be overpriced and crippled, thus selling poorly, and Canon will conclude from that one, that 4K is overrated and customers don't want it. :-D
That's how it works at Canon really.
I don't shoot video, so it's not an issue for me, but I can imagine how they lost the development workforce for this, instead of for something more exciting.
Long live Canon!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sJBq0z2Vmu4

Canon is already selling mirrorless 4K video cameras, and making a lot of money doing it. So if anything, the problem for developing a small, cheap consumer mirrorless camera might be getting the Canon workforce motivated to work on them rather than the pro level where they're already doing and shipping great products. Sony and Panasonic have found the motivation, though, so Canon should be able to, too.

 

[transpo1]

I suspect we have seen the last of the enthusiast level Canons that do not have 4K. Whichever comes next, the 90D or the 7DIII will almost certainly offer 4K. And, then, forum dwellers can move on from "Canon is cheating me by not offering 4K" to "Canon is cheating me by not offering the same level of 4K that they offer in their Cinema EOS line."

Thank you, this is the path forward

Seriously, though, my position ALWAYS has been that if they put the guts of the 1DXII video features into a 5D-type body- let's call it a 5DC- took out the mirror and gave it an EVF and FF crop factor in 4K with a better codec, they could charge whatever they want for that and people would buy it. I'd easily pay 7-8K for something like that if it had very competitive video features, like 4K 60p and 1080 120p (leaving the stellar stills capability of course).

 

[transpo1]

@RRC Please elaborate and explain why it’s a myth.

it's a myth that Canon cares so much about it.

Canon has actually stated the reverse. They view as their products as competing against each other.

Canon is bright enough to realize a cheap M6 styled 4K camera isn't going to compete against any other camera canon currently has, and if the user buys that so what? they stayed within the ecosystem.

Your statements contradict one another. They don't care about cannibalization but they care about their cameras competing against one another? That means they care about cannibalizing their products

Perhaps what you meant is that they WANT their products to compete against each other. Which, I'm sure, is true for some of their products, especially within their lower-end camera lines (which have so many options) but certainly not for their higher-end products. They certainly don't want those (at least in the past) to have serious competition from their cheaper cameras, as we can see in the Cinema EOS line, etc.

With your last statement you are partially right- Canon is bright enough NOW to realize a cheap M6... etc.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I'd say this is getting new sensor technology as well as a new processor. Canon's APS-C sensors have not been capable of 4K, so something has changed. Of course, any camera can be made to do 4K, but to do it right is another matter.

 

[mkabi]

Canon is bright enough to realize a cheap M6 styled 4K camera isn't going to compete against any other camera canon currently has, and if the user buys that so what? they stayed within the ecosystem.

I don't know what optimistic fairy tale you live in....

Coming back to reality, these are the real prices of Canon gear without 4K:

M100:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/c/search?Ntt=canon%20eos%20m100&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ps#searchOpen

M5:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/search?N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search&Ntt=canon%20eos%20m5

M6:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/search?N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search&Ntt=canon%20eos%20m6

Now reality with one of their cheapest 4K offering:

XC15:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1278108-REG/canon_1456c002_xc15_4k_professional_camcorder.html

In fact, even though this rumor is a CR3, it's still a rumor... And, I can't see Canon jumping ahead of their schedule to put 4K in their Mirrorless camera... Before the 7D mark 3, 90D, t8i.... It's a gamble that they won't risk.... I mean given that NAB 2018 is coming it would be smarter to put C-log in the 1dx mark 2, but you don't see that happening. They put in C-log in the 5D mark IV but neglect it in the 1dx mark 2... That's pretty illogical to me and Im sure most here, but Im sure it has something to do with appealing to the masses while at the same time not hurting the sales of their other products.

With that said, what are the chances that they are going to give you something equal or better than what the 5D mark IV or the XC15 has to offer???

*snort* bwahahaha and at half the price haha of Fuji's X-H1 price tag ($1899). Man... You're a funny guy.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Some people don't realize that a CR3 Rumor usually happens just before a release when information becomes known to a larger group of people.

There are people who actually know who leak information to CR, and when there different reliable known sources confirming the data, its virtually guaranteed.

If you have other information that is different, please send it to CR Guy, just claiming that Canon won't do it without any factual data is just a wish.

Its very rare that a CR3 is not a firm fact, sometimes Canon pushes a announcement out into the future, but a CR3 is 98% at least correct.

 

[Talys]

I suspect we have seen the last of the enthusiast level Canons that do not have 4K. Whichever comes next, the 90D or the 7DIII will almost certainly offer 4K. And, then, forum dwellers can move on from "Canon is cheating me by not offering 4K" to "Canon is cheating me by not offering the same level of 4K that they offer in their Cinema EOS line."

Thank you, this is the path forward

Seriously, though, my position ALWAYS has been that if they put the guts of the 1DXII video features into a 5D-type body- let's call it a 5DC- took out the mirror and gave it an EVF and FF crop factor in 4K with a better codec, they could charge whatever they want for that and people would buy it. I'd easily pay 7-8K for something like that if it had very competitive video features, like 4K 60p and 1080 120p (leaving the stellar stills capability of course).

You're probably right. For me, it's just a simple question of cost -- if there's no premium, sure, why not? But since I will never use it, the only reason for it is a little bit of resale value, after 7-10 years.

I think it's absurd to compare Cinema EOS 4k features, because people who shoot on enthusiast cameras probably have a whole different process (and expectation) after the video is recorded. But I think it's totally fair for reviewers to compare different ILCs that can record 4k video, and compare which ones are easier to use, given that most people will not have super-sophisticated software, the most powerful desktops that money can buy, or the desire to use either.

Some people don't realize that a CR3 Rumor usually happens just before a release when information becomes known to a larger group of people.

There are people who actually know who leak information to CR, and when there different reliable known sources confirming the data, its virtually guaranteed.

If you have other information that is different, please send it to CR Guy, just claiming that Canon won't do it without any factual data is just a wish.

Its very rare that a CR3 is not a firm fact, sometimes Canon pushes a announcement out into the future, but a CR3 is 98% at least correct.

The way to look at it is, how often has a CR3 been wrong in a material way? I can't recall the last time.

 

[rrcphoto]

@RRC Please elaborate and explain why it’s a myth.

it's a myth that Canon cares so much about it.

Canon has actually stated the reverse. They view as their products as competing against each other.

Canon is bright enough to realize a cheap M6 styled 4K camera isn't going to compete against any other camera canon currently has, and if the user buys that so what? they stayed within the ecosystem.

Your statements contradict one another. They don't care about cannibalization but they care about their cameras competing against one another?

obviously you had trouble reading that.

They view all their products as competing with one another because no matter what because a customer is always going to make a choice of one product over another.

That really wasn't hard was it?

 

[rrcphoto]

XC15:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1278108-REG/canon_1456c002_xc15_4k_professional_camcorder.html

the XC15 actually is a broadcast compliant camera and matches with the C300 codec. it's actually one of the cheapest cameras that is broadcast certified.

Don't expect that on a M6 video camera. we'd be lucky to get a 100mb 4k or even MJPEG.

 

[mistaspeedy]

I mean given that NAB 2018 is coming it would be smarter to put C-log in the 1dx mark 2, but you don't see that happening. They put in C-log in the 5D mark IV but neglect it in the 1dx mark 2... That's pretty illogical to me and Im sure most here, but Im sure it has something to do with appealing to the masses while at the same time not hurting the sales of their other products.

My guess is that Canon's ideology is this: if you want BOTH of the following two features, then you need to buy the Cinema EOS:
4K 60p
C-LOG

Giving C-LOG to the 5D mark IV does not make it equal Cinema EOS in certain specs. However, giving C-LOG to the 1D mark II would.

 

[sanj]

Slowly but surely the discussion on this forum if 4k is necessary or not will end. Good good.

 

[Don Haines]

A welcome surprise, but what interests me more is if they have gone to the UHS-2 SD cards yet

 

[Don Haines]

It will be interesting to compare high bitrate 2K to low bitrate 4K......

 

[sanj]

Great. Hopefully, some people will shut up now. ;D

True that.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Great. Hopefully, some people will shut up now. ;D

True that.

Unlikely. Whiners gonna whine.

 

[hachu21]

wow. now there's alot of questions. why did they hide the sensor from view? it sounds to me like it's a super-35 and most likely 9mp such as their cini cameras.

otherwise, why hide the sensor?

I'd say this is getting new sensor technology as well as a new processor. Canon's APS-C sensors have not been capable of 4K, so something has changed. Of course, any camera can be made to do 4K, but to do it right is another matter.

Agreed to both. All that could explain the M50 moniker : first 4k, but lower range for stills (9mp), diffrent sensor tech compared to the classic 24mp and possibly a DV chip instead of Digic 7 (IMHO, a single digic 7 cannot handle 4k 60P footage).

We'll see!