The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]

[transpo1]

I'd say this is getting new sensor technology as well as a new processor. Canon's APS-C sensors have not been capable of 4K, so something has changed. Of course, any camera can be made to do 4K, but to do it right is another matter.

This is exciting- looking forward to seeing what this is. Multi-aspect sensor maybe like the GH5s but APS-C size of course?

Curious if anyone has any thoughts on the tech they might put into a sensor in a lower-tier camera like this.

 

[sanj]

wow. now there's alot of questions. why did they hide the sensor from view? it sounds to me like it's a super-35 and most likely 9mp such as their cini cameras.

otherwise, why hide the sensor?

I'd say this is getting new sensor technology as well as a new processor. Canon's APS-C sensors have not been capable of 4K, so something has changed. Of course, any camera can be made to do 4K, but to do it right is another matter.

Agreed to both. All that could explain the M50 moniker : first 4k, but lower range for stills (9mp), diffrent sensor tech compared to the classic 24mp and possibly a DV chip instead of Digic 7 (IMHO, a single digic 7 cannot handle 4k 60P footage).

We'll see!

Who told you that?!?

 

[rrcphoto]

wow. now there's alot of questions. why did they hide the sensor from view? it sounds to me like it's a super-35 and most likely 9mp such as their cini cameras.

otherwise, why hide the sensor?

I'd say this is getting new sensor technology as well as a new processor. Canon's APS-C sensors have not been capable of 4K, so something has changed. Of course, any camera can be made to do 4K, but to do it right is another matter.

Agreed to both. All that could explain the M50 moniker : first 4k, but lower range for stills (9mp), diffrent sensor tech compared to the classic 24mp and possibly a DV chip instead of Digic 7 (IMHO, a single digic 7 cannot handle 4k 60P footage).

We'll see!

I'm wondering the exact same thing. they nerfed the bitrates down from the XC15 down to a single DIGIC DV and reduced heat envelope and slapped in a super-35 sensor. to get around cropping issues, they simply put in a low resolution sensor from one of their other camera lines and called things good.

it would be close enough really that probably all the EF-M lenses would work okay.

highly speculative but shoving a 24MP aps-c sensor and getting it to do good 4k would be most likely problematic for Canon. it would have around a 1.3 to 1.4 crop unless they upped their game dramatically.

 

[mistaspeedy]

My guess is that the sensor will not be anything exclusive or special. It could be a new sensor, but it would be recycled through a few other cameras that are coming in the future (like the 90D)

I doubt they would do a native 4K resolution sensor like the Cinema EOS.

 

[rrcphoto]

My guess is that the sensor will not be anything exclusive or special. It could be a new sensor, but it would be recycled through a few other cameras that are coming in the future (like the 90D)

I doubt they would do a native 4K resolution sensor like the Cinema EOS.

I don't know. it makes no sense to be side by side the M6 so soon. the silhouette we are going by was the M6, not the M5. if it was a fill rez 4k stills and video why not just replace the m5 which is due for an upgrade?

who knows, but there will sure be alot of speculation until the darn thing is out.

 

[mistaspeedy]

What I'm curious about is the pricing.

Z CAM E1 Mini 4K is $249 (4k30p m43)
Panasonic G7 is $600 (4K30p m43)
Sony a6300 is $800 (4K30p APSC)
Sony a6500 is $1300 (4K30p APSC + IBIS)
Panasonic GH5 is $2000 (4k60p m43 + IBIS)
Panasonic GH5s is $2500 (4k60p m43)

Which camera will it be directly competing against? (and others not on this list)....

 

[transpo1]

What I'm curious about is the pricing.

Z CAM E1 Mini 4K is $249 (4k30p m43)
Panasonic G7 is $600 (4K30p m43)
Sony a6300 is $800 (4K30p APSC)
Sony a6500 is $1300 (4K30p APSC + IBIS)
Panasonic GH5 is $2000 (4k60p m43 + IBIS)
Panasonic GH5s is $2500 (4k60p m43)

Which camera will it be directly competing against? (and others not on this list)....

I wonder if it will be much more pricey than people are expecting. It's unlike Canon to put 4K in something and not charge a premium for it.

To answer your question, though- a camera like this with decent and efficient 4K codec and crop and DPAF would keep a lot of vloggers from jumping ship to the GH5 and A6500. All Canon really has to do is give it a consumer friendly codec without a crop and many would stay in the fold. Or come back to it if they have Canon glass. Canon seems to care about the vlogger demo so that may be who they are targeting.

If it had 4K 60p (which I don't expect) with no crop, they could easily charge $1.5 to $2K for this thing and people would pay it to have DPAF.

 

[mistaspeedy]

My guess is close to $2000, but will struggle to compete with the $600 G7. Since competing would mean undermining the Cinema EOS series.

People have been comparing the G7 to the C200, commenting how close they are for the massive price difference.
http://www.4kshooters.net/2017/12/18/canon-c200-vs-panasonic-g7-can-you-guess-which-is-which/

The Panasonic lacks Canon's color science, sensor size and autofocus (among other things)... a Canon competitor to the G7 would have all those features, and suddenly the gap to the C200 becomes a lot smaller (for those who do not need all the pro level features, connectivity and all other things associated with the EOS Cinema series.)

 

[bhf3737]

Great. Hopefully, some people will shut up now. ;D

Let's hope. But not so sure. As long as there are buzz words to whine. Ok, here there are a few:
DCI, 4:2:2, IBIS, 10 bit, 60P, vector scope, db, HDMI out, shutter angle, SDI, XLR, waveform, 400mbps, zebra, cine-lens, super 35, and after those, will come 6k, buttons and many of them, and finally all should be free!

 

[transpo1]

Great. Hopefully, some people will shut up now. ;D

Let's hope. But not so sure. As long as there are buzz words to whine. Ok, here there are a few:
DCI, 4:2:2, IBIS, 10 bit, 60P, vector scope, db, HDMI out, shutter angle, SDI, XLR, waveform, 400mbps, zebra, cine-lens, super 35, and after those, will come 6k, buttons and many of them, and finally all should be free!

All the 4K haters on this forum should realize that if people are shouting at your company for the features they want on future products, that is a VERY good problem to have, and only shows how Canon products are highly valued and how loyal those customers are.

The intelligent ones at Canon will take that as a compliment and a gift, whether or not they give those loud 4K people what they want

 

[Architect1776]

We <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/will-the-next-mirrorless-camera-from-canon-have-4k-video-cr1/">reported last month</a> that the next mirrorless from Canon would shoot 4K video and it looks like we’ve confirmed that it will.</p>
<p>This would make the EOS M50 the first APS-C shooter in the Canon lineup to shoot 4K and adds a bit of <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-sends-invites-to-dealers-for-major-mirrorless-presentation-next-month/">credence to that special</a> invite from one of Canon’s subsidiaries we were told about last month</p>
<p>The EOS M50 will remain an EF-M mount camera. Unfortunately, we have no other specifications at this time.</p>
<p><em>More to come…</em></p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>

When the M5 has about 30 mp minimum, 10fps, 4K and low noise with high DR I will snag it up immediately. Canon needs to pull out all the stops on a new M5 and impress us like nothing else. I want to revive my FD, FL and R lenses with a top quality M series camera to match the quality of my old L lenses.

 

[Talys]

When the M5 has about 30 mp minimum, 10fps, 4K and low noise with high DR I will snag it up immediately. Canon needs to pull out all the stops on a new M5 and impress us like nothing else. I want to revive my FD, FL and R lenses with a top quality M series camera to match the quality of my old L lenses.

Since nothing remotely resembling this exists in any APSC camera, I think you'll be disappointed for a while

All the 4K haters on this forum should realize that if people are shouting at your company for the features they want on future products, that is a VERY good problem to have, and only shows how Canon products are highly valued and how loyal those customers are.

The intelligent ones at Canon will take that as a compliment and a gift, whether or not they give those loud 4K people what they want

I'm not a 4K hater. I just don't want to pay any extra money for it as a feature, because I'll never use it.

 

[transpo1]

When the M5 has about 30 mp minimum, 10fps, 4K and low noise with high DR I will snag it up immediately. Canon needs to pull out all the stops on a new M5 and impress us like nothing else. I want to revive my FD, FL and R lenses with a top quality M series camera to match the quality of my old L lenses.

Since nothing remotely resembling this exists in any APSC camera, I think you'll be disappointed for a while

All the 4K haters on this forum should realize that if people are shouting at your company for the features they want on future products, that is a VERY good problem to have, and only shows how Canon products are highly valued and how loyal those customers are.

The intelligent ones at Canon will take that as a compliment and a gift, whether or not they give those loud 4K people what they want

I'm not a 4K hater. I just don't want to pay any extra money for it as a feature, because I'll never use it.

Good thing there are many EOS-M cameras from which to choose

 

[rrcphoto]

Great. Hopefully, some people will shut up now. ;D

Let's hope. But not so sure. As long as there are buzz words to whine. Ok, here there are a few:
DCI, 4:2:2, IBIS, 10 bit, 60P, vector scope, db, HDMI out, shutter angle, SDI, XLR, waveform, 400mbps, zebra, cine-lens, super 35, and after those, will come 6k, buttons and many of them, and finally all should be free!

All the 4K haters on this forum

there's a difference between thinking that 4K should be on select cameras with targeted ergonomics and capabilities versus screaming and stomping around that EVERY SINGLE camera NEEDS to have it.

what I'm surprised about is that some can't see the difference there.

Frankly video on a DSLR is half a solution. if and when Canon gets full frame DPAF and video on a mirrorless, then you have something that SHOULD definitely have top notch video.

 

[transpo1]

Great. Hopefully, some people will shut up now. ;D

Let's hope. But not so sure. As long as there are buzz words to whine. Ok, here there are a few:
DCI, 4:2:2, IBIS, 10 bit, 60P, vector scope, db, HDMI out, shutter angle, SDI, XLR, waveform, 400mbps, zebra, cine-lens, super 35, and after those, will come 6k, buttons and many of them, and finally all should be free!

All the 4K haters on this forum

there's a difference between thinking that 4K should be on select cameras with targeted ergonomics and capabilities versus screaming and stomping around that EVERY SINGLE camera NEEDS to have it.

what I'm surprised about is that some can't see the difference there.

Frankly video on a DSLR is half a solution. if and when Canon gets full frame DPAF and video on a mirrorless, then you have something that SHOULD definitely have top notch video.

Mirrorless is of course better for video- and as soon as they have a mirrorless with FF 4K 60p and no crop, friendly but quality codec and 1080 120p, I’ll be satisfied.

Also- it’s always funny to me how those who are screaming and stomping accuse others of screaming and stomping.

 

[Talys]

I'm not a 4K hater. I just don't want to pay any extra money for it as a feature, because I'll never use it.

Good thing there are many EOS-M cameras from which to choose

Well, when it becomes a "standard enthusiast feature", which well may happen moving forward, I'm happy to have it on the camera even if I don't use it.

That being said, I do not own a MILC yet because I'm not really happy with the best EVFs on the market yet, but I have almost an M5 a half dozen times for other reasons (mostly GAS). If the M50 is not too expensive and feels great to me, who knows, maybe Canon will make me open up my wallet.

Mirrorless is of course better for video- and as soon as they have a mirrorless with FF 4K 60p and no crop, friendly but quality codec and 1080 120p, I’ll be satisfied.

Also- it’s always funny to me how those who are screaming and stomping accuse others of screaming and stomping.

If by "they" you mean Canon, you'll kind of need to wait til they have a mirrorless FF at all

But by then, people will probably want 6k or 8k, or whatever

Anyways, save yourself the heartache, and just buy that $3,500 broadcast quality camcorder someone linked earlier today. That sounds like a sweet video rig. As those come down in price, perhaps the appeal of a $3000 mirrorless FF to make 4k video will diminish.

 

[transpo1]

I'm not a 4K hater. I just don't want to pay any extra money for it as a feature, because I'll never use it.

Good thing there are many EOS-M cameras from which to choose

Well, when it becomes a "standard enthusiast feature", which well may happen moving forward, I'm happy to have it on the camera even if I don't use it.

That being said, I do not own a MILC yet because I'm not really happy with the best EVFs on the market yet, but I have almost an M5 a half dozen times for other reasons (mostly GAS). If the M50 is not too expensive and feels great to me, who knows, maybe Canon will make me open up my wallet.

Mirrorless is of course better for video- and as soon as they have a mirrorless with FF 4K 60p and no crop, friendly but quality codec and 1080 120p, I’ll be satisfied.

Also- it’s always funny to me how those who are screaming and stomping accuse others of screaming and stomping.

If by "they" you mean Canon, you'll kind of need to wait til they have a mirrorless FF at all

But by then, people will probably want 6k or 8k, or whatever

Anyways, save yourself the heartache, and just buy that $3,500 broadcast quality camcorder someone linked earlier today. That sounds like a sweet video rig. As those come down in price, perhaps the appeal of a $3000 mirrorless FF to make 4k video will diminish.

Yes, you are correct- a mirrorless FF camera with 4K will require a mirrorless FF camera. :

If I had wanted a broadcast rig, I would have bought one long ago. I need a stills / video hybrid with the features I mentioned.

 

[rrcphoto]

Great. Hopefully, some people will shut up now. ;D

Let's hope. But not so sure. As long as there are buzz words to whine. Ok, here there are a few:
DCI, 4:2:2, IBIS, 10 bit, 60P, vector scope, db, HDMI out, shutter angle, SDI, XLR, waveform, 400mbps, zebra, cine-lens, super 35, and after those, will come 6k, buttons and many of them, and finally all should be free!

All the 4K haters on this forum

there's a difference between thinking that 4K should be on select cameras with targeted ergonomics and capabilities versus screaming and stomping around that EVERY SINGLE camera NEEDS to have it.

what I'm surprised about is that some can't see the difference there.

Frankly video on a DSLR is half a solution. if and when Canon gets full frame DPAF and video on a mirrorless, then you have something that SHOULD definitely have top notch video.

Mirrorless is of course better for video- and as soon as they have a mirrorless with FF 4K 60p and no crop, friendly but quality codec and 1080 120p, I’ll be satisfied.

Also- it’s always funny to me how those who are screaming and stomping accuse others of screaming and stomping.

they still have to solve problems.

which is why this may be an exciting first camera out the door this way for canon. if it shows 4k with a h.264 codec, then canon finally is in business to put it around the lineup.

 

[transpo1]

Great. Hopefully, some people will shut up now. ;D

Let's hope. But not so sure. As long as there are buzz words to whine. Ok, here there are a few:
DCI, 4:2:2, IBIS, 10 bit, 60P, vector scope, db, HDMI out, shutter angle, SDI, XLR, waveform, 400mbps, zebra, cine-lens, super 35, and after those, will come 6k, buttons and many of them, and finally all should be free!

All the 4K haters on this forum

there's a difference between thinking that 4K should be on select cameras with targeted ergonomics and capabilities versus screaming and stomping around that EVERY SINGLE camera NEEDS to have it.

what I'm surprised about is that some can't see the difference there.

Frankly video on a DSLR is half a solution. if and when Canon gets full frame DPAF and video on a mirrorless, then you have something that SHOULD definitely have top notch video.

Mirrorless is of course better for video- and as soon as they have a mirrorless with FF 4K 60p and no crop, friendly but quality codec and 1080 120p, I’ll be satisfied.

Also- it’s always funny to me how those who are screaming and stomping accuse others of screaming and stomping.

they still have to solve problems.

which is why this may be an exciting first camera out the door this way for canon. if it shows 4k with a h.264 codec, then canon finally is in business to put it around the lineup.

I completely agree. If they do have to solve overheating and processing problems, etc., maybe this a sign that they’ve turned that corner.

I’m excited to see how they enact this if it turns out to be true.

 

[hachu21]

I'd say this is getting new sensor technology as well as a new processor. Canon's APS-C sensors have not been capable of 4K, so something has changed. Of course, any camera can be made to do 4K, but to do it right is another matter.

Who told you that?!?

There's various issue for a good 4K camera :
- enough dedicaed processing power (see the specialized DV chips in the XC-15)
- thermal management (overheating problems in many existing cameras, including 5D's when used for long period)
- sensor readout speed. line skipping introduce artefacts, central cropping introduce...cropping (Tadaaa!)
- rolling shutter introduce the so-called "Jello effect". no directly linked to the readout speeds, but herited from the stills-oriented chip architecture...
If you look at the latest Sony sensors, you'll see that a lot of work has been done to reduce drastically the readout speed, including adding on-chip procesing units.

As for Canon 24mp APSC sensor:
- there no 4K camera with it yet.
- cropping the center can't be a viable solution (think in combination with EF glass)
- the fatest cameras equipped with it are
EOS M5 : digic 7, 9 fps, 30Mbps 1080 60P video H.264
80D : Digic 6, 7 fps, 90Mbps 1080 30P video .MOV

Well, from there it seems reasonable to extrapolate : adding a good 4K footage (even 30P) without changing either processor and/or sensor type seems higly unlikely.

Maybe, the 90D with the latest digic 7 could prove me wrong. Wait and see!