The Canon EOS R5 has passed Bluetooth certification

usern4cr

EOS 80D
Sep 2, 2018
187
138
Kentucky, USA
You actually can, those single 18650 sized powerbanks are awesome. And unlike Canon cameras, you can charge your phone during use.
I haven't been looking into powerbanks for phone, so thanks for the heads-up on this. It would probably be a good thing to have for the phone on a trip, regardless of camera issues. My current camera can't charge via USB, but hopefully the R5 & future cameras can, so that would mean a powerbank could assist the camera if it had GPS as well, so that would allow extra power to whichever way you get GPS.
 
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bbb34

5D3
Jul 24, 2012
102
97
Amsterdam
If the phone GPS(&bluetooth on both) takes as much power as the camera inbuilt GPS, then you have not saved any power really since you'll just drain both batteries. And you can't carry little spare phone batteries as easily as spare camera batteries which you probably carry anyway. And it's way more awkward to use both since you need to bring the phone and pray that the connection will work 100%.
It totally depends on the scenario.

But you are missing two points:

a) There are not many people nowadays who go out without a phone. If bluetooth and location services are on anyway, there is not much additional power used.

b) A camera without inbuilt GPS can power down very deep. If you power down a GPS, it has to acquire the satellites at startup. That takes a lot of time. You definetely don't want to wait 1-2 minutes for the GPS before you can take a picture (with location).

A GPS in a phone circumvents this startup-problem, because it can work in the background, and it is using data assistance from the mobile phone infrastructure.
 

jolyonralph

EOS R5 Mark II
Aug 25, 2015
1,200
466
London, UK
www.everyothershot.com
A GPS in a phone circumvents this startup-problem, because it can work in the background, and it is using data assistance from the mobile phone infrastructure.
Yes, when it works. I've used both the bluetooth connection with the EOS R and the external GPS GP-E2 adaptor extensively - for example during a trip to Madagascar last year.

When it stayed connected the bluetooth was fine. But it doesn't. It drops frequently, and worst of all you don't get any obvious warning that the GPS has disconnected. With the GP-E2 your only worry is ensuring a stable supply of AA batteries for it, but once connected it's a solid reliable signal. In fact, the only reason I got to compare the GP-E2 with bluetooth from my phone last year was that I didn't ensure a stable supply of AA batteries :)

Now, the bluetooth connection with the app is poor, but what is a thousand times worse is the remote connectivity for shooting from the phone. You need to manually reconnect (which is a pain) every time you turn the camera off/on. So when I was doing things such as astrophotography where I was using the phone as a remote, I ended up giving up turning the camera off when switching lenses in order to keep the connection alive.
 

usern4cr

EOS 80D
Sep 2, 2018
187
138
Kentucky, USA
It totally depends on the scenario.

But you are missing two points:

a) There are not many people nowadays who go out without a phone. If bluetooth and location services are on anyway, there is not much additional power used.

b) A camera without inbuilt GPS can power down very deep. If you power down a GPS, it has to acquire the satellites at startup. That takes a lot of time. You definetely don't want to wait 1-2 minutes for the GPS before you can take a picture (with location).

A GPS in a phone circumvents this startup-problem, because it can work in the background, and it is using data assistance from the mobile phone infrastructure.
Thanks - I wasn't thinking about the power-up issue. In my current camera usage I turn on the camera, take pictures, turn it off, walk a ways (even if only of brief duration), and repeat. This drastically increases battery life and it's automatic to me so I don't mind the power up & down at all. If the future in-camera GPS had to wait a minute or two then it would indeed be worthless to me to use.

With that said, if the phone was in my pants pocket, I will either be holding the camera in various positions, or sometimes place it down nearby (within say 10 feet). If the distance to the phone causes intermittent loss of bluetooth/wifi connection that requires re-work on my part to restart, then that will turn out to be worthless to me. In addition, since I prefer to turn my camera on/off so often to save battery I would not want to have to manually do anything to start/restart the phone connection, so there would have to be an optional auto-start feature to get GPS usage or otherwise it'd be too much trouble for me anyway. That may be a lot to expect, or maybe they finally have figured out how to make it that robust.
 
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magarity

EOS RP
Feb 14, 2017
228
132
Call me old fashioned...I disable everything in my cameras that is not needed for video or photography. To me battery life is more critical than BT.
So yes, using BT functions is definitely one of those "if you want it fine otherwise never mind" things. As for power consumption the newer BT protocols are so low powered it doesn't make a real difference if its on or not. Its Wifi that sucks down the power at an alarming rate. Yet Canon uses BT in depressingly unimaginative ways. I don't think they use it to do any more than remote shutter trigger. Yet at up to 2Mb/sec BT is more than fast enough to do everything on the camera short of live view.
 
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usern4cr

EOS 80D
Sep 2, 2018
187
138
Kentucky, USA
Yes, when it works. I've used both the bluetooth connection with the EOS R and the external GPS GP-E2 adaptor extensively - for example during a trip to Madagascar last year.

When it stayed connected the bluetooth was fine. But it doesn't. It drops frequently, and worst of all you don't get any obvious warning that the GPS has disconnected. With the GP-E2 your only worry is ensuring a stable supply of AA batteries for it, but once connected it's a solid reliable signal. In fact, the only reason I got to compare the GP-E2 with bluetooth from my phone last year was that I didn't ensure a stable supply of AA batteries :)

Now, the bluetooth connection with the app is poor, but what is a thousand times worse is the remote connectivity for shooting from the phone. You need to manually reconnect (which is a pain) every time you turn the camera off/on. So when I was doing things such as astrophotography where I was using the phone as a remote, I ended up giving up turning the camera off when switching lenses in order to keep the connection alive.
The GP-E2 is quite interesting - thanks for mentioning it. It might be a good enough solution to the R5 to allow GPS usage with it. Do you know how soon after turning the GP-E2 on you can take a picture and have it GPS tagged? Also, is there sufficient warning on the GP-E2 about a low (but usable) battery so that you can change the battery at a convenient time, as well as avoiding taking pictures thinking you had GPS but not getting it since the GPS battery ran out without you knowing it?

What would be nice is if a hotshoe mounted GPS unit could be powered by the camera's battery as well as by it's own internal battery (or vice versa!) so that you would basically have a bigger total battery for use by both the camera and hotshoe device - Maybe the hotshoe device could contain a removable identical battery as the camera so that voltage matching was more possible, as well as more convenient for the user? But then again, that battery might be much too big & heavy to be up on top.
 
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jolyonralph

EOS R5 Mark II
Aug 25, 2015
1,200
466
London, UK
www.everyothershot.com
Do you know how soon after turning the GP-E2 on you can take a picture and have it GPS tagged?
Also, is there sufficient warning on the GP-E2 about a low (but usable) battery so that you can change the battery at a convenient time, as well as avoiding taking pictures thinking you had GPS but not getting it since the GPS battery ran out without you knowing it?
It can take about 30 seconds for it to get a reliable GPS lock, but don't forget because the GP-E2 is NOT powered from the camera, when you turn off the camera you can leave the GP-E2 powered on, which in general I do if I'm likely to be shooting again in the next few minutes.

There is a separate battery indicator that flashes when the battery is getting low.
 
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shunsai

EOS R5
Oct 15, 2011
278
196
It totally depends on the scenario.

But you are missing two points:

a) There are not many people nowadays who go out without a phone. If bluetooth and location services are on anyway, there is not much additional power used.

b) A camera without inbuilt GPS can power down very deep. If you power down a GPS, it has to acquire the satellites at startup. That takes a lot of time. You definetely don't want to wait 1-2 minutes for the GPS before you can take a picture (with location).

A GPS in a phone circumvents this startup-problem, because it can work in the background, and it is using data assistance from the mobile phone infrastructure.
I'm pretty sure your scenario b) is exactly why Canon has 3 distinct GPS modes (at least on the one that's built into the 5D Mark IV). Mode 1 (still active even when camera is off), Mode 2 (off when camera is off, but periodically receives signals), and then Disabled Mode which I'm pretty sure means it is completely off. Pretty sure when mine is off, it powers down just as deep as cameras without built-in GPS. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Definitely not interested in using my phone as my GPS for my camera. More cumbersome than it needs to be, and also just not as reliable in my experience. I also find that keeping location services on really drains my battery. The thought of bringing a powerbank along with me and keeping it attached to my phone, and keeping my phone near the camera to make sure it connects as opposed to a built-in GPS that you can simply turn on or off based on your needs? For me it's not even a question. It's also one of the few reasons I opted not to get the R. Hopefully GPS will be built into the R5.
 
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bbb34

5D3
Jul 24, 2012
102
97
Amsterdam
I don't know much about certification requirements, but the big difference is that a Bluetooth module contains both, receiver and transmitter, while the GPS has only a receiver. These radio certifications are mainly about the transmitters.
 
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melgross

EOS 7D MK II
Nov 2, 2016
516
336
I will be buying an R5 and a couple of lenses, at least as a beginning of my movement to mirrorless.

when? Well, considering that we really don’t yet know when the actual availability will be, and how that will fit into the Covid problem, I have to say that I just don’t know.
 
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usern4cr

EOS 80D
Sep 2, 2018
187
138
Kentucky, USA
I'm pretty sure your scenario b) is exactly why Canon has 3 distinct GPS modes (at least on the one that's built into the 5D Mark IV). Mode 1 (still active even when camera is off), Mode 2 (off when camera is off, but periodically receives signals), and then Disabled Mode which I'm pretty sure means it is completely off. Pretty sure when mine is off, it powers down just as deep as cameras without built-in GPS. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Definitely not interested in using my phone as my GPS for my camera. More cumbersome than it needs to be, and also just not as reliable in my experience. I also find that keeping location services on really drains my battery. The thought of bringing a powerbank along with me and keeping it attached to my phone, and keeping my phone near the camera to make sure it connects as opposed to a built-in GPS that you can simply turn on or off based on your needs? For me it's not even a question. It's also one of the few reasons I opted not to get the R. Hopefully GPS will be built into the R5.
You mention the 5D Mark IV GPS mode 2 being: off, but periodically receiving signals - Does this mean that as soon as you turn the camera back on you can take a pictures which store the last periodically received position until a new position is established? That wouldn't be bad at all! :) - Do you have control over how frequent the periods are?
 

koenkooi

EOS 6D MK II
Feb 25, 2015
886
664
[..] In fact, the only reason I got to compare the GP-E2 with bluetooth from my phone last year was that I didn't ensure a stable supply of AA batteries :)
[..]
I bought a USB powered AA charger from Ikea, the VINNINGE, a while back for €3. It works great to top up the GP-E2 battery each while you sleep.

I also keep a tracklog on my phone, just in case :)
 

shunsai

EOS R5
Oct 15, 2011
278
196
You mention the 5D Mark IV GPS mode 2 being: off, but periodically receiving signals - Does this mean that as soon as you turn the camera back on you can take a pictures which store the last periodically received position until a new position is established? That wouldn't be bad at all! :) - Do you have control over how frequent the periods are?
Yeah, that's my understanding of it. I usually use Mode 2 (particularly when I'm hiking). Initial startup can take some time to pinpoint the current location, but after that it doesn't take much time to update in this mode as far as I can tell. No, there's no way that I know of to specify the frequency.
 
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Sep 6, 2019
7
5
FWIW, I tried to get a quote from Adorama, and they won’t do that unless you ship the camera to them. Seems only useful for people who live in proximity to them.
 
Sep 6, 2019
7
5
Yes, when it works. I've used both the bluetooth connection with the EOS R and the external GPS GP-E2 adaptor extensively - for example during a trip to Madagascar last year.

When it stayed connected the bluetooth was fine. But it doesn't. It drops frequently, and worst of all you don't get any obvious warning that the GPS has disconnected. With the GP-E2 your only worry is ensuring a stable supply of AA batteries for it, but once connected it's a solid reliable signal. In fact, the only reason I got to compare the GP-E2 with bluetooth from my phone last year was that I didn't ensure a stable supply of AA batteries :)

Now, the bluetooth connection with the app is poor, but what is a thousand times worse is the remote connectivity for shooting from the phone. You need to manually reconnect (which is a pain) every time you turn the camera off/on. So when I was doing things such as astrophotography where I was using the phone as a remote, I ended up giving up turning the camera off when switching lenses in order to keep the connection alive.
The obvious indication is a clear GPS indicator in the viewfinder. Not sure what else you’d want?
 

TinTin

EOS M50
Sep 18, 2019
25
39
You mention the 5D Mark IV GPS mode 2 being: off, but periodically receiving signals - Does this mean that as soon as you turn the camera back on you can take a pictures which store the last periodically received position until a new position is established? That wouldn't be bad at all! :) - Do you have control over how frequent the periods are?
That's my understanding of mode 1: the GPS unit continues to track location, even if the camera is switched off. Thus, when you switch on, the GPS unit does not have to re-acquire the satellites. Location data are recorded in images.
In mode 2, the GPS unit is off (so less power is used than for mode 1), but, when you switch on the camera, the GPS comes on as well and will re-acquire the satellite signal and, once acquired, will place location data into images from that point onwards.
If disabled, the GPS unit is inactive and no location data will be recorded.
 
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