The Canon EOS R6 is still scheduled to be announced in May [CR2]

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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20MP is certainly *enouph* to make great prints. However more MP can be an advantage, and the trade offs for more MP are very small until you start going silly with the numbers. Will this new 20MP sensor manage better IQ than the 30MP of the R & 5D4?
Probably not, but it may manage better IQ than the 26 MP 6D Mark II, which is the target for which most of us see it is shooting.
 

tomri

I'm New Here
Jun 4, 2014
22
4
Where do you read substandard? It is lower than 5 series. It is a 6series quality build. As in RP or 6D II. Yeah?
The 6d’s build quality is sub-standard, considering it sold for 3200,- Euro initially with the L kit lens. Just look at the cover material used for the 2 screens, they scratched much more quickly than on the 40d which I used much more often; the feel of the thumb wheel and the flush buttons on the back. If the R6 is anything like that, it wont sell me into a mirrorless system which is an investment of several thousand Euros after all. Especially if the sensor has not improved much.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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It's interesting that no one has yet considered this may be a mirrorless replacement for both the 6D AND 7D lines. That would account for the dual card slots and lower MP in exchange for higher fps. Those sports/nature 7DII shooters are at the very tail end of their body lifecycle. Yes, the birders always could use more MPs to crop, but they did just fine with the 7D, although the crop gave more reach. If they can get decent enough build quality, the R6 could hit all these market segments - semi-pro FF under $2k, sports/nature, YouTuber/light video creatives.
The 7D Mark II has the same pixel density as the 50 MP 5Ds/5Ds R.

20 MP before the crop is far less dense than 20 MP after the crop. 2.56X less dense, to be precise.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
2,302
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What I find concerning from the original post, it states "Build Quality not as good as R5" - Question is, how "poor" is the build quality? why would canon put out a "sub-standard" camera if they want to attract more customers?
Wah, wah, wah!!! Why can't I get Rolex quality for a Timex price?
 

SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
1,945
865
The 6d’s build quality is sub-standard, considering it sold for 3200,- Euro initially with the L kit lens. Just look at the cover material used for the 2 screens, they scratched much more quickly than on the 40d which I used much more often; the feel of the thumb wheel and the flush buttons on the back. If the R6 is anything like that, it wont sell me into a mirrorless system which is an investment of several thousand Euros after all. Especially if the sensor has not improved much.
Just a couple of things:
1. I bought glass screen protectors for both of my 5d4s @ around $1 per each. Let me tell you: this is the best $2 I ever spent in my life. Both protectors are now scratched, dinted and cracked but the lcd screen behind is in a pristine condition. I have replaced protectors twice already. It is just works. I suggest you do the same for your cameras.
2. 6Ds sold for 3200 Euro? Ouch... they are more like $1000 a pop online these days.
btw, 6DII build quality is quite good. I used one shortly. It does not feels cheap or unusable. Certainly is quite a camera.
 
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The difference in overall "sharpness" between the 1D X Mark II and 1D X Mark III with identical sensor resolutions is palpable when used with the highest quality lenses.

Canon claims the new low-pass filter on the 1D X Mark III gives it the same resolution ability in terms of lines per mm on a test chart as a 24 mp sensor using their older low-pass filter technology. So before you totally excoriate Canon for reducing the 26 MP sensor resolution of the 6D Mark II down to 20 MP for the R6, perhaps you should wait and actually look at some real world examples of the same scenes shot by both cameras with the same lenses? The results may surprise you.
So much wording, and yet you completly forgot one argument - the space to crop.
 

padam

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 26, 2015
792
413
I don't think that's a safe assumption at all.
but crop for 4k60 is always a possiblity.

the sensor still shoots at 20mp @ 20 fps - it's not exactly a slow sensor.
I still think it is, as the the 1DXIII can shoot shoot video with the full width of the sensor at 60fps.
This won't be able to do that.
So while they can both shoot the same 20fps for stills with electronic shutter, the rolling shutter is going to be worse on the EOS R6.

The question is, how much worse.

Here are some rolling shutter numbers collected from the three of the most recent Canon FF cameras in milliseconds.
('up to' means it remains the same, when it is 24p, 30p, 60p, etc.)

EOS RP
1080p FF up to 60p 11ms
UHD4K crop 33ms

EOS R
1080p FF up to 60p 14ms
UHD4K crop 28ms

1DX Mark III
FF 1080p FF up to 60p 10ms
C4K FF (5.5K RAW) 30p 28ms
C4K FF (5.5K RAW) 60p 14ms
C4K crop up to 60p 13ms

I guess the EOS R6 readout speed is going to be somewhere between the second two.

From these measurements taken, I think it quite interesting, that the 1DX III full sensor mode mode with higher frame rates have the AF disabled (Canon says due to lack of processing power) but in this mode, the rolling shutter also gets to be half as much.
I think the behaviour changes depending on the recording mode selected in-camera. So switching to MF or using MF lenses lenses won't change it, it would be quite cool, if it did, as it would become a lot closer to cinema cameras.
This indicates that for video, in some cases, disabling the AF and switching to a different processing mode seems to help with the readout speed for some reason.

So we could see it disabled on the EOS R6 as well in some modes.
 
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mariosk1gr

EOS M50
Jan 4, 2019
35
14
Six series being a baby 1 series? All at around two grand a pop. Okaaay.
I am sorry to ask: Do you even understand how fast the viewfinder needs to be In order to keep up with a fast action shooting? Low latency is the key word. Now read again what is the rumoured specs around R6 viewfinder.... not even close.
So why Canon provides 12/20 fps when there is going to be so much latency as you believe. It won't be a 1dx mark iii performance wise. Rumours are rumours and we just speculating right now... but the latency has to be improved on milc cameras with newer bodies and fw updates as it has already (at some level ofc) on eos R. Also don't forget that Canon is a company that has used many times the same sensors on their bodies. As for 6 series you mention surprised, a year ago you wouldn't believe what Canon did with 1Dx Mark III, R5, cinema series etc...
 

padam

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 26, 2015
792
413
As it said in the article: "lower your expectations" so there will be more backlash on this one, just like other Canon cameras, but it won't change they just work nicely.

Since the R5 looks like a heavily revised and beefed up EOS R body, and we know there is no top LCD on this one, it might be more logical to see the EOS RP as the 'basis' for some of the specs and design, so:
More compact with a smaller battery, lower dynamic range sensor, no Canon Log, 8-bit internal IPB only codecs with 8-bit 4:2:2 external output, DPAF disabled in some modes, no joystick, lower cost EVF and screen etc.

But it will shoot 4k60p, it will shoot 12/20fps stills, it will have dual card slots and it will have the IBIS in it, it will be good at high ISO, and it will cost a lot less than the EOS R5, maybe they are designing it to be 2000$ or less.

And they will have much cheaper RF lenses to go with it as well.
 
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SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
1,945
865
So why Canon provides 12/20 fps when there is going to be so much latency as you believe. It won't be a 1dx mark iii performance wise. Rumours are rumours and we just speculating right now... but the latency has to be improved on milc cameras with newer bodies and fw updates as it has already (at some level ofc) on eos R. Also don't forget that Canon is a company that has used many times the same sensors on their bodies. As for 6 series you mention surprised, a year ago you wouldn't believe what Canon did with 1Dx Mark III, R5, cinema series etc...
I had to read your post 3 times and I cannot squeeze a drop of a sense out the entire post. I am sorry. It did not work. I have no doubt that your photography skills are excellent. Please do what you do best.
Did I mention that your photography skills a great?
 

cpsico

EOS RP
Mar 27, 2011
370
24
This could be a great camera if it doesn't follow the path of the 6D MarkII. Canon terminally crippled that camera with an APSC auto focus system, shoddy sensor with poor dynamic range, and then a camera with wonderful ergonomics and battery life. It was a Frankenstein creation of nightmares
 

padam

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 26, 2015
792
413
This could be a great camera if it doesn't follow the path of the 6D MarkII. Canon terminally crippled that camera with an APSC auto focus system, shoddy sensor with poor dynamic range, and then a camera with wonderful ergonomics and battery life. It was a Frankenstein creation of nightmares
The IBIS in this camera will do a handful for extra power draw, so they could certainly make it with an LP-E17 class battery to achieve the worst battery life ever, and heavily limit record times as well, so like with an older Fuji, pretty much everyone has to buy the 200$ vertical battery grip and 50$ battery (plus a few extras) just to make it usable. Pity the camera's hardware development is already finished, so if they read this, they will realise the extra profit opportunity they've missed.
 

cpsico

EOS RP
Mar 27, 2011
370
24
The IBIS in this camera will do a handful for extra power draw, so they could certainly make it with an LP-E17 class battery to achieve the worst battery life ever, and heavily limit record times as well, so like with an older Fuji, pretty much everyone has to buy the 200$ vertical battery grip and 50$ battery (plus a few extras) just to make it usable. Pity the camera's hardware development is already finished, so if they read this, they will realise the extra profit opportunity they've missed.
Hopefully the battery is a good size because this is a wedding photographers dream camera for reception,candies,etc. 20 megapixels is in that just right file size range, and would produce better high ISO then a bigger megapixel camera. I much prefer my 6D to my 5DIV when shooting reception pictures, because of the high ISO capabilities are a little better on the 6D,( don’t kill me this is my opinion) And the Centerpoint is absolutely golden in low light focusing even though it doesn’t have the sophisticated focusing system of the 5DIV the Centerpoint is absolutely golden in low light focusing and is still very useful.
 
Feb 17, 2020
5
13
Concerning announcement timelines for the R5 and R6, I believe Canon are going to make announcements for both of these Cameras in the latter part of May, as they had originally intended.

Canons annoncements will / have been made around the dates of Shows/Exhibitions now cancelled.

So the announcement re the C300 Mark III was made on April 20th via Virtual News Conference.

The dates for the cancelled NAB show was April 18th to Apr 22nd.

Of course because of the Video capabilities of the R5, and because NAB is primarily video related, the R5 got a mention towards the end of the News Conference … but only the specs relevant to the topic i.e. video.

The next show is Photokina , which has been cancelled, but was to due to be held between May27th and May 30th.
The following is a copy and paste from the Canon Rumors “2020 Trade Show Schedule”

“Photokina 2020 – Cologne, Germany

May 27, 2020 – May 30, 2019 Cancelled due to coronavirus

Canon has promised to make a splash at the next Photokina.”

Now the splash Canon refer to I believe is the announcement of the R5 and R6.

Of course happenings in the wider world re covid-19 may influence the above but the logic used for the C300 announcement may hold good for the Photokina dates and the much anticipated formal announcement of the R5 and R6. So watch out for an invitaion to join the next virtual News Conference.
 
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KristinnKr

I'm New Here
Oct 4, 2018
9
6
You wouldn't buy a Canon 1DXII/1DXIII for $2k? You wouldn't buy a Nikon D5/D6 for $2k? Both of these pro lines are 20MP sensors, and I've never heard the pros who use them to pay their rent complain about MPs. 90% of display mediums these days probably wouldn't show much difference between a 12MP and 40MP sensor. Plenty of great photography being done on iPhones, after all, and while low light is a problem, hardly anyone complains they're not enough MP.
No I would in fact not buy a bulky 20MP sports camera even if it only cost 2000 USD. The needs of a consumer photographer and those of a professional sports photographer are wildly different. A sports photographer needs to be 100% certain that he is able to get an in-focus image of precise moments, meaning he has a lot of demand on the focusing system and fps count, but publishes his photos as small images in news papers and websites, meaning he doesn't need a lot of resolution. Someone who takes photos of his family, landscapes, and maybe some street photography does not have these hyper-specific demands, and benefits much more from increased resolution. Not just for printing large images, but also cropping, for example if he likes the face and perspective on his child or partner in a wider photo, and wants to print it as a portrait.

I am convinced that releasing the R6 for more than lets say 1300 USD would be a great mistake.
 

Adelino

EOS RP
Jan 21, 2015
370
241
Whoops!! Apparently I read right over that. Well then that info is brand new as of this post. That's very interesting then. I can't image what the big difference would be that Canon would make another 20MP sensor on top the one they are already making now.

I wonder if perhaps IBIS necessitates this? Otherwise I can't imagine what difference in performance ( if any at all) in the sensor itself there will be between the two...

Or perhaps it's just classified as a new sensor because of IBIS? Someone with more insight than me on that one is gonna have to chime in.
They did call the sensors in the R and the RP "all new" just because they were ever so slightly redesigned for mirrorless so, there's that.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
2,302
1,289
So much wording, and yet you completly forgot one argument - the space to crop.
What advantage does 26 MP give you when cropping if there is no more actual detail in the image than the amount of detail a different 20 MP sensor can give you?
 
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