The first supertelephoto for the RF mount to be an RF 500mm f/4L IS [CR1]

SecureGSM

EOS 6D MK II
Feb 26, 2017
936
67
** Your implication is that the 5DIV is an option for any outdoor shooter that has to keep shooting no matter the weather conditions, and I disagree with that. What meets that need are the more recent 1-series cameras.

SGSM: 5D series are sufficiently enough weather protected camera bodies according to numerous weather test and experience of wedding photogs. ( just an example).

** Interesting that your examples to support the need for a second card slot come from people who actually had a second slot and didn’t use it
SGSM: obviously because this group of careless people are affected by their own negligence the most. People that use both cards would not need an emergency recovery as they would have had a copy of the failed card content replicated on to the second card as backup. It’s a non-issue for them. Goes to demonstrate that backup is a must.

* Also, you specify failure of CF cards. Unlikely that a current MILC would use a CF card due to the larger size. How many SD cards have you had to recover due to failure?

SGSM: CF cards only in my experience but only due to the fact that CF was the only card that was used. No second card as per above.

* For sports/action shooters, there is a good reason to not use that second slot, as mentioned above it slows you down when shooting bursts
SGSM: it is a trade off. Chose between certain performance degradation or risk your entire card content with potential implications. Many sport photogs shoot JPEGs tethered in order to delivery content to agencies ASAP. These are seemingly unaffected by card failure issue but also less affected by decreased frame rate issue.

*** With thousands of AF points a joystick is probably not the most efficient way to move between them

SGSM: Is a theoretical concerns expressed from.... etc. there is no such a Canon camera exist yet hence we can only theoritise about such a system. I would imagine that you should be able to set joystick to push and hold mode as in a continuous af point selection mode. Meaning that if you hold the joystick say pushed to the right, selected af point will be changed rapidly from left to right and camera will continue to do so until joystick was released. With Approx 50 af points across, I see this as a viable option potentially.

* I had no problems using the touchscreen for AF point movement (with the thumb of my left hand) when using the EVF and the screen next to my cheek

SGSM: are you saying that instead of supporting you long and heavy lens with your left palm you let lens go, hold camera in your right hand and while you hold long and heavy assembly singlehandedly by the camera body grip you use your left hand to move af points around?
I do not see this being practical unless the lens attached is a smaller one.
It has to be done with The same hand you holding camera in. I have tried. It did not work for me the way I expected. Joystick Would address the issue.

I wear glasses. This augments the issue further as you put smudges on your glasses when you touch around screen while you hold camera next to your cheek.

I have not tried gloves. E-tip gloves should work. I agree.
What about wet fingers? 5DIV touch screen does not respond to a wet touch.

Yes, I used my friends EOS R for about an hour.
 

unfocused

EOS 5D SR
Neuro said:
I had no problems using the touchscreen for AF point movement (with the thumb of my left hand) when using the EVF and the screen next to my cheek
SGSM: are you saying that instead of supporting you long and heavy lens with your left palm you let lens go, hold camera in your right hand and while you hold long and heavy assembly singlehandedly by the camera body grip you use your left hand to move af points around?
I do not see this being practical unless the lens attached is a smaller one.
It has to be done with The same hand you holding camera in. I have tried. It did not work for me the way I expected. Joystick Would address the issue.

I wear glasses. This augments the issue further as you put smudges on your glasses when you touch around screen while you hold camera next to your cheek.
Everyone's experience is different.

I used my left hand to hold a 70-200, just as I do with a DSLR. I used my right thumb to move the autofocus points around the viewfinder while looking through the viewfinder. I had no problem with my face getting in the way. I also wear glasses. I did not notice any unusual or additional smudging of my glasses. I'm right handed and my dominant eye is my right eye, so maybe that makes a difference

I did not use it with a 100-400, but because of my age and being a wimp, I get usually too fatigued holding either the 100-400 or the Sigma 150-600 for long periods and use a monopod.

This all seems pointless frankly. Some people like the "R" some like DSLRs, some like both. (I'm in that category). Buy and use whatever you prefer. One reason why DSLRs aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
 
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Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,005
886
Alberta, Canada
Interesting that the lens thread generates so many camera comments, which only emphasizes the fact that the two must work together well or what have you gained.

As far as operating a joystick versus touchscreen, I find the joystick to be somewhat challenging if you're talking really fast and greater distance movements of the AF point and bumping up against the "ledge" with the 1DX2 really bugs me. You must move up or down first in order to continue sideways.

Another thing; there needs to be more than one choice for a 1 level camera to minimize compromises such as, the 1DX2 is the only camera with illuminated focus points. That mentality was fine when there was only a "best" or "flagship" camera in years gone by but is ridiculous now when it can't satisfy the various needs folk have of a high level camera.

Jack
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,005
886
Alberta, Canada
My daughter (small hands and not a large person) shot for hours with the 70-200 II with the 1.4X attached and acquired virtually as many good shots as me. In other words she was not complaining at all. In fact I was the one complaining about such things as my lower resolution and the MFD of the 400 DO II. Unfortunately she was often focal length limited while I was the opposite with 400 X2 with no time to swap. However, overall, any time I dropped back to 400 I ended up regretting it because 20 MPs doesn't allow for much cropping if you're FLL. In spite of her FLL situation there was seldom a missed AF, which tells you something about the R; even though its focus point is not as small, it is smarter.

Back to the 500. A camera the size of the R simply will not satisfy many customers using that size/weight of lens. Consider the complaints about Sony regarding a small camera on a big lens - what have you gained with the smallness of the camera?

Jack
 

Dantana

EOS RP
Jan 29, 2013
200
49
Los Angeles, CA
www.flickr.com
My daughter (small hands and not a large person) shot for hours with the 70-200 II with the 1.4X attached and acquired virtually as many good shots as me. In other words she was not complaining at all. In fact I was the one complaining about such things as my lower resolution and the MFD of the 400 DO II. Unfortunately she was often focal length limited while I was the opposite with 400 X2 with no time to swap. However, overall, any time I dropped back to 400 I ended up regretting it because 20 MPs doesn't allow for much cropping if you're FLL. In spite of her FLL situation there was seldom a missed AF, which tells you something about the R; even though its focus point is not as small, it is smarter.

Back to the 500. A camera the size of the R simply will not satisfy many customers using that size/weight of lens. Consider the complaints about Sony regarding a small camera on a big lens - what have you gained with the smallness of the camera?

Jack
I agree with the issue of lens size VS body size that the 500 would have on the R. I think the fact that there is no reported timeline on its release could mean that it will come alongside or relatively close to the release of a larger, action oriented body. Seems like a nice way to roll out both products.

That being said, this is the kind of lens that I'll only be able to lust after, or perhaps rent. Maybe the price of older EF big whites will drop a little.
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,005
886
Alberta, Canada
Well neither can I afford it but I've scrimped and managed to get what I have, which gives me great pleasure. I feel for those who can't even do that. I doubt I'll ever swing another big purchase unless I sell and switch to mirrorless and eat some losses. However, at my age I can't handle more weight than what I have now so probably 500 is a no go. Crazy - what I have is good, how can I be having GAS.:confused:

Jack
 

Otara

EOS RP
Jul 16, 2012
243
32
I suspect what people are really asking for is a modern 5DIV, ie really closer to a 5DV equivalent.

With the R a true silent shutter is worth a lot wildlife wise to me, but I do really notice the frame rate at times. I do still struggle a bit with AF point movement at times too, either moving it by accident or finding it a bit clunky to position when not being able to use face detect. And IS not having a sleep to conserve battery does irritate with my 500mm. But simply by being mirrorless with preview etc Im sold on it overall compared to my 5d3.

Cant imagine getting an RF 500 though unless it offered something awfully compelling.
 

YuengLinger

EOR R
Dec 20, 2012
2,275
294
Southeastern USA
I keep seeing comments like this, but I don’t understand them. The EOS R is pretty much a 5DIV, actually a bit better in some ways. People fixate on two fewer frames per second in Servo, but ignore the fact that the RAW buffer on the R is more than twice as deep. The R can track faces in Servo AF. The only significant advantage of the 5DIV is a second card slot, and using it for the only purpose it can be reasonably claimed it’s necessary (writing files to both cards in case one fails) means slower shooting once that shallower buffer is full, and substantially longer time to clear that buffer. I wonder how many comments like this can be attributed to 5DIV owners feeling bitter that an equivalent if not better camera was released for over $1K less than they paid.

Now, if the argument is there will be no RF supertele before an RF mount 1-series equivalent body, I see the logic there.
The 5D IV is great for portraiture, events, wildlife, and sports. It is a robust performer. While the R is attractive as a portrait, landscape, and still-life camera, I don't see the R being as good as the 5D IV in terms of build or ergonomics--especially ergonomics. I'm simply waiting for a better built RF mount camera before I start spending money on RF lenses. That's my choice, and I think I expressed it in straightforward, civil terms.

It is sad that you have to use words such as "fixate" and "bitter" when responding to others posting their opinions. In your reply, you have brought to my attention a spec I was unaware of, the RAW buffer size. Thanks for that, Neuro. But your tossing out of a red herring saying that 5D IV owners are "bitter" because the R costs less is beneath you. It's just plain silly.

And you also claim that the "only significant advantage of the 5D IV is a second card slot..." In fact, many shooters, wrongly or rightly, see a real advantage in the optical viewfinder. If you say that it isn't "fair" to compare the optical to the EVF, fine, but don't ignore it has a significant advantage in sports and wildlife. I'd love to see a breakthrough in EVF tech, but even a significant improvement, combined with better ergonomics and build, would convince me to buy an RF body to then buy the new 50mm 1.2 and the 85mm 1.2. (I have the ef 85mm 1.4L IS but find it to be somewhat disappointing. I regret selling my 85mm 1.2L II, as the 1.4 is not as good for portraiture--for me.)

Frame rate, for some, is also significantly better on the 5D IV. I see it that way.

Over and over, you respond to posts you don't like by denigrating the intelligence, mental state, and character of the person posting--sometimes bluntly, sometimes with a bit of subtlety. Such posts do not help make CR a friendly place.
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,005
886
Alberta, Canada
YuengLinger you make some valid points and I'm with you on keeping the threads as friendly or easy going as possible. I also think that we need take some of the posts with a grain of salt or ignore them, which isn't always easy. Like shopping in the supermarket, we scan everything and choose what we will benefit from.

Except for the odd really wild post most do offer some food for thought. I remember when the 6D came out and I bought it, I wasn't too thrilled with all the negative comments that largely proved to be wrong or insignificant. I'd love to jeer at those who complained it was stupid to put WiFi in it, if they'd just identify themselves!:)

Jack
 

degos

EOS 80D
Mar 20, 2015
177
103
I'd love to jeer at those who complained it was stupid to put WiFi in it, if they'd just identify themselves!:)

I'd still contend that wifi or GPS have no place in a camera. As an add-on module, sure; that way it can be upgraded with new developments in protocols.

Baking it into the circuit board just introduces complexity, bugs, vulnerabilities and technological dead-ends. The camera should be an apparatus optimised for taking photos and storing them. Posting them to Instagram is a different process.
 

Otara

EOS RP
Jul 16, 2012
243
32
I'd still contend that wifi or GPS have no place in a camera. As an add-on module, sure; that way it can be upgraded with new developments in protocols.

Baking it into the circuit board just introduces complexity, bugs, vulnerabilities and technological dead-ends. The camera should be an apparatus optimised for taking photos and storing them. Posting them to Instagram is a different process.
The Rs ability to immediately backup to your phone is a pretty great option in my view, as its use as a remote. I think 'posting to instagram' rather understates its utility to current photography. Just wish it still had NFC like the M5.
 

Joules

EOS 80D
Jul 16, 2017
155
76
Hamburg, Germany
The camera should be an apparatus optimised for taking photos and storing them.
Using WLAN you can improve on both aspects. Using the EOS Remote App makes it possible to take pictures while standing away from your camera. Last week I inserted myself in a landscape shot for a change, which would not have been possible without some wifi capabilities.

And storing pictures on your phone in addition to the camera is a thing as well. If Canon would allow that feature to be used for RAW then it would even eliminate the need for a second card slot, or at least be a nice additional backup.

If it would require additional hardware, that would make it less likely to be used I think. Also, with all the capabilities present in smart phones, from a consumer perspective it is easy to perceive cameras as outdated, when they can't even match those abilities (4K video beeing present in many smartphones and few Canon bodies is brought up frequently in discussions about video).
 

Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
898
377
I'd still contend that wifi or GPS have no place in a camera. As an add-on module, sure; that way it can be upgraded with new developments in protocols.

Baking it into the circuit board just introduces complexity, bugs, vulnerabilities and technological dead-ends. The camera should be an apparatus optimised for taking photos and storing them. Posting them to Instagram is a different process.
Actually, it's the other way around. WiFi is a great way to wirelessly connect add-on modules to the camera, reducing the camera's own "complexity, bugs, vulnerabilities and technological dead-ends".
 
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neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,091
1,323
** Your implication is that the 5DIV is an option for any outdoor shooter that has to keep shooting no matter the weather conditions, and I disagree with that. What meets that need are the more recent 1-series cameras.

SGSM: 5D series are sufficiently enough weather protected camera bodies according to numerous weather test and experience of wedding photogs. ( just an example).
Possibly, but there's really no definition of 'sufficient' short of an IPF rating. As I said, personally I wouldn't use the 5DIV or R in heavy rain. However, I would use either in a sprinkle. But the 1-series is unquestionably better sealed.

* For sports/action shooters, there is a good reason to not use that second slot, as mentioned above it slows you down when shooting bursts
SGSM: it is a trade off. Chose between certain performance degradation or risk your entire card content with potential implications. Many sport photogs shoot JPEGs tethered in order to delivery content to agencies ASAP. These are seemingly unaffected by card failure issue but also less affected by decreased frame rate issue.
Quite true.

*** With thousands of AF points a joystick is probably not the most efficient way to move between them

SGSM: Is a theoretical concerns expressed from.... etc. there is no such a Canon camera exist yet hence we can only theoritise about such a system. I would imagine that you should be able to set joystick to push and hold mode as in a continuous af point selection mode. Meaning that if you hold the joystick say pushed to the right, selected af point will be changed rapidly from left to right and camera will continue to do so until joystick was released. With Approx 50 af points across, I see this as a viable option potentially.
Theoretical and no such Canon camera exists? Canon has already disproven your 'theory': "The EOS R camera’s AF system features an incredible 5,655 manually selectable AF points." The RP has 4,779 AF points. Good luck wiggling your joystick around. ;)

I'm sure it's possible to have a variable-speed movement of the selected AF point with a joystick, but practically there will be a lag...how does the camera know if you want to move a dozen points or zip across the frame? With the touchscreen, it's easy.

* I had no problems using the touchscreen for AF point movement (with the thumb of my left right hand) when using the EVF and the screen next to my cheek

SGSM: are you saying that instead of supporting you long and heavy lens with your left palm you let lens go, hold camera in your right hand and while you hold long and heavy assembly singlehandedly by the camera body grip you use your left hand to move af points around?
I do not see this being practical unless the lens attached is a smaller one.
It has to be done with The same hand you holding camera in. I have tried. It did not work for me the way I expected. Joystick Would address the issue.
Apologies, that was an error on my part. AF point selection on the touchscreen is with the right thumb. FYI (maybe you're unaware with your limited experience using the R), the area of the touchscreen used for AF point selection does not need to be the whole thing, the selection area can be restricted to one side or one quadrant, and the upper right quadrant (which is my selection choice) is easily and fully accesssible by my right thumb with my finger on the shutter button.


I wear glasses. This augments the issue further as you put smudges on your glasses when you touch around screen while you hold camera next to your cheek.
Again, I suspect this stems from inexperience. Even the specs tell most of the story – the VF is about 1cm behind rear LCD (the scren itself, the eyecup extends further), and the eye relief on the EOS R is 23mm – that means your eye is about 33mm (1.3") away from the LCD. In practice, that means when holding the EOS R normally, looking through the EVF with my right eye and adjusting the AF point with my right thumb, the back side of my thumb is actually touching the tip of my nose. Do your glasses extend further than the tip of your nose? I would think not but I suppose it's possible.

184724


What about wet fingers? 5DIV touch screen does not respond to a wet touch.
Just went and tried it, and yes – when my thumb is wet I can still use it for selection of menu items and AF points on my EOS R.
 
Aug 1, 2017
291
166
How is the 500 II on the mc-11 adapter?

Been thinking of renting the A9 to see.
This is why we won't be seeing any more interesting EF lenses from Canon.

I expect Canon deeply regrets the amount of "aid & comfort" their EF lenses provided to Sony when they were rolling out full-frame e-mount. It's hard to imagine that system getting much traction without the availability of EF lenses.

I guess it's posible we'll still see an update or two for essential lenses aimed at pro DSLR's but I'd say EF lenses are safely in Canon's rear view mirror. Despite the fact that EF mount bodies will be the majority of the market for Canon lenses for many years to come.

It appears they've been sitting on a lot of new lens designs waiting for the RF rollout. IMO it's unlikely that any of Canon's RF lenses will ever operate on anything but Canon branded bodies. What remains to be seen is how far into the future EF support will extend for the R bodies once Canon has built out their RF lens portfolio.

edit: Call me cynical but it sure looks like Canon is a lot more interested in building out their new closed, proprietary, lens system than they are in developing new RF bodies that could be used with the lenses currently owned by their customers. Sure the new lenses are tempting but be aware they are attached to a big shiny barbed hook.
 
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blackcoffee17

EOS 80D
Sep 17, 2014
139
105
What is the advantage of the RF mount for these lenses. Other than native mount and better communication i don't see any advantage. Surely not in size over the EF mount.
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,005
886
Alberta, Canada
This is why we won't be seeing any more interesting EF lenses from Canon.

I expect Canon deeply regrets the amount of "aid & comfort" their EF lenses provided to Sony when they were rolling out full-frame e-mount. It's hard to imagine that system getting much traction without the availability of EF lenses.

edit: Call me cynical but it sure looks like Canon is a lot more interested in building out their new closed, proprietary, lens system than they are in developing new RF bodies that could be used with the lenses currently owned by their customers. Sure the new lenses are tempting but be aware they are attached to a big shiny barbed hook.
Perhaps but does canon really care, if they sell a lens, what camera it goes on?

A little cynical since we know there are a great number of future photographic benefits associated with the new mount.

Jack
 
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Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,005
886
Alberta, Canada
What is the advantage of the RF mount for these lenses. Other than native mount and better communication i don't see any advantage. Surely not in size over the EF mount.
Who knows exactly what benefits are associated with the electronics, but I suspect quite a few. Has any technical expert tried to assess what potential there is in the new communication link?

Jack