The future of the Canon EOS-1D X series [CR1]

Aug 1, 2017
303
169
At least throw a bone to us current 1DXMkII owners before dumping it and give us a C-Log update!
I’ll be the first to admit that my grading skills aren’t that great, but I’ve given up on the c-log in my 5D Mark IV. I rarely get a final grade I like and the Canon provided LUTs don’t help. I think 8 bit log is a bit of an oxymoron. If anybody else is getting good results with that version of log I’m not hearing much about it. I mainly use the technicolor cinestyle profile which I find grades pretty well on both the 1DX2 and 5D4.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,466
497
119
I’ll be the first to admit that my grading skills aren’t that great, but I’ve given up on the c-log in my 5D Mark IV. I rarely get a final grade I like and the Canon provided LUTs don’t help. I think 8 bit log is a bit of an oxymoron. If anybody else is getting good results with that version of log I’m not hearing much about it. I mainly use the technicolor cinestyle profile which I find grades pretty well on both the 1DX2 and 5D4.
It's funny, when I looked into video with the 1DX MkII I did all the research, loaded the Technicolor flat profiles and corresponding LUT's and after a lot of time and trouble realized one of the best reasons for using Canon video was the fact that the out of camera colors were pretty darn good, if you start off with the optimal exposure I found all the pushing and pulling simply wasn't worth the time or effort for the minimal differences.

I watched a video by Parker Wallbeck the other day where he did yet another comparison between Sony and Canon [
And even though on his plus side the Sony out scored the Canon he came to the conclusion that the pros on the Canon side outweighed the pluses on the Sony side for his specific uses. Very pragmatic and intelligent assessment of two cameras he owns and he isn't sponsored by either company. His two biggest pluses for Canon? Out of camera colors and the AF in video.
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,026
906
Alberta, Canada
Haha, obviously:LOL:
Hi Viggo,

I'm now sitting with a 1DX2 and an R. Suddenly my wish-list for a 1DX3 has grown. Included would be a full AF spread which a DSLR can't give me, sadly. Silent shooting is another. However, the size of the R makes it extremely uncomfortable for my 400, especially with added extenders.

Clearly, those who crave small bodies, and I think all of us long shooters always knew this, are not using the camera like we do.

I'm thankful it's a smallish body for other use scenarios and it is relatively comfortable but not what I'd call light. I'm afraid I could never give up the 1DX2 with R as the replacement but as an alternate case backup I think it is fine. The AF speed with the 400 DO II is decent as is the AF with 70-200 and extenders. Lots of positives about the camera and lack of joystick can be handled well with its alternate program options.

An R version 1DX could be a killer if they get it right. At the moment I like manual with ISO on the control ring and fail to see any problem with just setting exposure by eye through the viewfinder - that's another big plus. The large AF point is a negative for eye focus on small creatures and I just cant live without exposure linked to the AF point for my style of manual shooting. I don't like the viewfinder when the camera is in motion.

From what I've outlined, for me the R just doesn't tick enough boxes for wildlife etc., but with a 50 1.2 as you tend to shoot I can see that it would.

Jack
 
Reactions: Viggo
Aug 1, 2017
303
169
If I’m just shooting a couple clips and the lighting is going to be pretty consistent than I just go with whatever style I would uses for JPGs since that’s basically what your shooting with MJPEG. If I’m shooting for a longer project or stock that will include clips with varying light , contrast etc shot over a period of days or months or years I still find it’s worth using a flat profile like cinestyle.
I’m pretty sure that if Canon thought Log was a benefit when using the 1DX2 they would have either included it at launch or provided an upgrade by now. That MJPEG codec has pluses and minuses and it may be that log doesn’t provide much benefit. Of course, I’m entirely self taught on video and I may just be doing it wrong.
 

ethanz

1DX II
Apr 12, 2016
975
239
ethanzentz.com
If I’m just shooting a couple clips and the lighting is going to be pretty consistent than I just go with whatever style I would uses for JPGs since that’s basically what your shooting with MJPEG. If I’m shooting for a longer project or stock that will include clips with varying light , contrast etc shot over a period of days or months or years I still find it’s worth using a flat profile like cinestyle.
I’m pretty sure that if Canon thought Log was a benefit when using the 1DX2 they would have either included it at launch or provided an upgrade by now. That MJPEG codec has pluses and minuses and it may be that log doesn’t provide much benefit. Of course, I’m entirely self taught on video and I may just be doing it wrong.
Interesting to note about your experiences with CLog. I've never really seen much need to "grade" (not that I know how to do that) or change the colors too much in my videos PP. I only make minor adjustments to white balance and some vibrance. I guess I'm spoiled by the 1dx2 video.
 
Aug 1, 2017
303
169
Interesting to note about your experiences with CLog. I've never really seen much need to "grade" (not that I know how to do that) or change the colors too much in my videos PP. I only make minor adjustments to white balance and some vibrance. I guess I'm spoiled by the 1dx2 video.
You have to grade log or flat profile footage. Theoretically a LUT can do that for you but I haven’t had much luck with any of the Canon LUTs.
If you use one of the jpeg styles and you're happy with the way it looks than it’s probably not necessary. I could do that but then I'd lose some editing flexibility later.
My videos often blend multiple sources so I have to try to balance everything out to keep things consistent or it changes with every cut and looks awful. I’m sure I’m making it harder on myself than Is probably necessary but that’s just the way I do things.
 
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HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
399
29
A click or klick is one kilometer. This is a simple fact that is easily verifiable.

This calls into question your other pronouncements.
---

In the Military, this is technically true as One Klick is truly around 0.6 Miles (one KM!) but the COLLOQUIAL expression for OLD-than-millennials for many American/Canadian persons is that One Click is One Mile (I use "C" rather than the common "K" within the term expression Click). This is an AGE-related expression! One Click = One Mile! (i.e. I'm driving 200 Clicks = 200 Miles linear distance) Since MANY Millennials and younger-thans, haven't really heard the term "Click" (or Klick!) they really have no clue what it means linear distance-wise. My friends know what it means, my elderly parents and grandparents and THEIR friends know what "Click" means coloquially which is MILES in theirs/ours common language! I have noted this expression even REGIONALLY say between British Columbia, Texas to Ohio to Nova Scotia! If you are older than 45+, a click is a mile in MANY CASES!

In BOTH Canadian Forces and the US Department of Defence in every branch, the Metric system is used. By definition any unofficial colloquial term would be (should be?) referring to linear distance as ONE KM or 1000 metres rather than miles. I should note, I HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN discrepencies between younger and older enlisted and officer personnel within US forces specifically! The millennials refer to KM and the 45+ refer to Miles/Feet/Gallons versus the Millennials' KM/Metres/Litres! This has many times caused quite some scares within flight operations in my own experience! This is one reason WHY checklists are always used! For some dumb reason flight levels are still in FEET!
 
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HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
399
29
Harry is an oversize tick, feeding himself on forum blood!

and this "Tick" has FEASTED MIGHTILY here!

Anyways..... Canon is DOOOOOOOOOOMED I tell you! UTERLY DOOOOOOOOOOOOMED !!!!

Canon is about to be eaten for lunch camera-wise and smartphone-wise!

Their low end is going to be OBLITERATED by 2/3rd inch and one inch sensor equipped smartphones and their high end is going to nearly annihilated by a 56 mm sensor equipped combined Medium Format 8K Video/ 50.3 megapixel stills eco-system!

They can't (and won't!) do anything! All I can do is watch the digital train wreck in slow-motion!
.
 

Viggo

EOS 5D SR
Dec 13, 2010
3,943
460
Hi Viggo,

I'm now sitting with a 1DX2 and an R. Suddenly my wish-list for a 1DX3 has grown. Included would be a full AF spread which a DSLR can't give me, sadly. Silent shooting is another. However, the size of the R makes it extremely uncomfortable for my 400, especially with added extenders.

Clearly, those who crave small bodies, and I think all of us long shooters always knew this, are not using the camera like we do.

I'm thankful it's a smallish body for other use scenarios and it is relatively comfortable but not what I'd call light. I'm afraid I could never give up the 1DX2 with R as the replacement but as an alternate case backup I think it is fine. The AF speed with the 400 DO II is decent as is the AF with 70-200 and extenders. Lots of positives about the camera and lack of joystick can be handled well with its alternate program options.

An R version 1DX could be a killer if they get it right. At the moment I like manual with ISO on the control ring and fail to see any problem with just setting exposure by eye through the viewfinder - that's another big plus. The large AF point is a negative for eye focus on small creatures and I just cant live without exposure linked to the AF point for my style of manual shooting. I don't like the viewfinder when the camera is in motion.

From what I've outlined, for me the R just doesn't tick enough boxes for wildlife etc., but with a 50 1.2 as you tend to shoot I can see that it would.

Jack
I would agree with that. My subjects are general shooting and kids, often with a strobe, and that is very different from supertele wildlife shooting.
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
7,948
1,335
Canada
I would agree with that. My subjects are general shooting and kids, often with a strobe, and that is very different from supertele wildlife shooting.
I am in agreement too. I tried the R.... it is a great camera, but it isn't the one for me. It will take at least the 5D equivalent to get me to jump in. So far, we have seen the bottom of the R line, and we have also seen what Panasonic and Olympus can do with features on their high end mirrorless. I hope Canon follows up with something equivalent. I predict bad times ahead for our bank accounts :)
 
Reactions: Del Paso and Viggo

QuisUtDeus

EOS 80D
Feb 20, 2019
115
80
I am in agreement too. I tried the R.... it is a great camera, but it isn't the one for me. It will take at least the 5D equivalent to get me to jump in. So far, we have seen the bottom of the R line, and we have also seen what Panasonic and Olympus can do with features on their high end mirrorless. I hope Canon follows up with something equivalent. I predict bad times ahead for our bank accounts :)
Right there with you. The ergonomics were too compromised for the minimal reduction in size, and I really missed the joystick to move the AF point. And hated the touch bar in actual use. And the VF freeze. And the VF and LCD seemed to always be selecting the wrong one to be active.

The crazy thing is, like the girlfriend who's bad for you, I kinda miss it.

I do wish Canon would allow a joystick + tilty-flippy on the same body.
 
Dec 6, 2018
51
67
I am in agreement too. I tried the R.... it is a great camera, but it isn't the one for me. It will take at least the 5D equivalent to get me to jump in. So far, we have seen the bottom of the R line, and we have also seen what Panasonic and Olympus can do with features on their high end mirrorless. I hope Canon follows up with something equivalent. I predict bad times ahead for our bank accounts :)
For general purpose shooting, I find the EOS R to clean the 5D mk iii's clock, and basically keep pace with the 5D mk iv, although out-performing that body in dim light like reception areas. So shy of 2 card slots, and a couple more frames per second many don't need, it's a good alternative. But at the same time, waiting is a good alternative too for those who have time to wait.

I've been enjoying some videos today posted by excellent photographers like Cliff Mautner on Youtube, from years ago like 2010 and 2012. They did some very nice professional photography back then with less than we had available a full year ago. So it got me to thinking that anything else in the future is a luxury more than a need.
 

dcm

Good or bad - it's not the gear.
Apr 18, 2013
711
31
---

In the Military, this is technically true as One Klick is truly around 0.6 Miles (one KM!) but the COLLOQUIAL expression for OLD-than-millennials for many American/Canadian persons is that One Click is One Mile (I use "C" rather than the common "K" within the term expression Click). This is an AGE-related expression! One Click = One Mile! (i.e. I'm driving 200 Clicks = 200 Miles linear distance) Since MANY Millennials and younger-thans, haven't really heard the term "Click" (or Klick!) they really have no clue what it means linear distance-wise. My friends know what it means, my elderly parents and grandparents and THEIR friends know what "Click" means coloquially which is MILES in theirs/ours common language! I have noted this expression even REGIONALLY say between British Columbia, Texas to Ohio to Nova Scotia! If you are older than 45+, a click is a mile in MANY CASES!

In BOTH Canadian Forces and the US Department of Defence in every branch, the Metric system is used. By definition any unofficial colloquial term would be (should be?) referring to linear distance as ONE KM or 1000 metres rather than miles. I should note, I HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN discrepencies between younger and older enlisted and officer personnel within US forces specifically! The millennials refer to KM and the 45+ refer to Miles/Feet/Gallons versus the Millennials' KM/Metres/Litres! This has many times caused quite some scares within flight operations in my own experience! This is one reason WHY checklists are always used! For some dumb reason flight levels are still in FEET!
Checked with an older officer in the USAF. My father served 1952-1978 as a Navigator and Instructor Navigator. He was introduced to clicks/klicks = kilometers during his training in 1952. And all air operations are done in nautical miles and feet since that is the scale on navigational maps. Guess we live in different worlds. Now back to the original discussion...

I have a 1DX2 and M5. Don't think I'll be in the market to update the 1DX2 anytime soon (mirrorless or otherwise). It does everything I need it to do and more. I can't imagine a 1DX3 will be a huge leap ahead. Still looking for something to fill the gap between my bodies since I gave away my 6D, thinking the next R might be a winner if a 5DS/r replacement.
 
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Reactions: Michael Clark

tiggy@mac.com

Pentax K-1000
Jan 20, 2014
476
149
Thetford, VT
www.ForestMetrix.com
Jack, I think your comments on the R-versus-1dx2 best reflect my own experiences with both those cameras, though I'd add a couple points...

AGREE R CONS:
  • AF point is overly large. As a side note, I would very much like Canon to use as a focus point graphic in the viewfinder some sort of shape that actually reflected the true area used for focus, rather than a representative icon that sometimes is quite a bit smaller than actual focusing area. This goes for 1dx2 also.
  • Metering not tied to focus point used. Another aside: would like this to be applicable on 1dx2 also to modes other than spot focus as well, so even things like center weighted average could be moved around via focus point selection.
AGREE R PROS:
  • AF Point area coverage is several times better than 1dx2
  • Quieter shooting
ADDED R CONS:
  • Frustrated that back screen focus point control can't operate simultaneous to servo focus (this would be a magical combined capacity). As it is now, you need to repeatedly press focus points, rather than drag, and that's not suited to viewfinder use.
  • Of course, the frame rate on the R is dismal.
  • There is a lag at times similar to what I experienced with the M5. Seems intermittent, but ruins my confidence in the use of back screen for focus.
MY NEEDS FOR FUTURE R:
I sold my R last Thursday and cancelled my RP pre-order. When they come out with a pro model, will probably come back to it. Requisites include...
  • At least doubling fps on the R
  • Adding joystick (or fixing back screen focus implementation)
  • Tie metering to focus point
  • Not reducing megapixels to 1dx2 level
  • Reducing lag incidents
  • IBIS
  • Form factor between R and 1dx2 (Think both of those are suboptimal. Need a Goldilocks form factor.)
  • Adding the RAW cooking Canon does in 1DX2 series. As unpopular as that is to utter out loud, I appreciate its effects. Just did some testing between 5d4 and 1dx2 regarding that, and was surprised how well 20mp comes out versus 30 mp, even when processed to give it an apples-to-apples IQ comparison.



Hi Viggo,

I'm now sitting with a 1DX2 and an R. Suddenly my wish-list for a 1DX3 has grown. Included would be a full AF spread which a DSLR can't give me, sadly. Silent shooting is another. However, the size of the R makes it extremely uncomfortable for my 400, especially with added extenders.

Clearly, those who crave small bodies, and I think all of us long shooters always knew this, are not using the camera like we do.

I'm thankful it's a smallish body for other use scenarios and it is relatively comfortable but not what I'd call light. I'm afraid I could never give up the 1DX2 with R as the replacement but as an alternate case backup I think it is fine. The AF speed with the 400 DO II is decent as is the AF with 70-200 and extenders. Lots of positives about the camera and lack of joystick can be handled well with its alternate program options.

An R version 1DX could be a killer if they get it right. At the moment I like manual with ISO on the control ring and fail to see any problem with just setting exposure by eye through the viewfinder - that's another big plus. The large AF point is a negative for eye focus on small creatures and I just cant live without exposure linked to the AF point for my style of manual shooting. I don't like the viewfinder when the camera is in motion.

From what I've outlined, for me the R just doesn't tick enough boxes for wildlife etc., but with a 50 1.2 as you tend to shoot I can see that it would.

Jack
 

HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
399
29
Checked with an older officer in the USAF. My father served 1952-1978 as a Navigator and Instructor Navigator. He was introduced to clicks/klicks = kilometers during his training in 1952. And all air operations are done in nautical miles and feet since that is the scale on navigational maps. Guess we live in different worlds. Now back to the original discussion...

I have a 1DX2 and M5. Don't think I'll be in the market to update the 1DX2 anytime soon (mirrorless or otherwise). It does everything I need it to do and more. I can't imagine a 1DX3 will be a huge leap ahead. Still looking for something to fill the gap between my bodies since I gave away my 6D, thinking the next R might be a winner if a 5DS/r replacement.
===

Well! Evidently there seems to be a difference between various experiences in terms of regionality and age. Many contemporaries HERE (in Pacific Northwest region of North America) speak of One Click = One Mile. There may even be town-to-town differences but I as of yet haven't noticed that. Your experiences are obviously different and that's fine. I personally find it weird that Feet, Nautical Miles and Gallons are still used for seagoing and aviation operations when KM, Metres, CM and Litres are far easier to convert and relate to other measurement units.

Again, I have noted FRIGHTENING incidents between older and younger military and commercial flight operations personnel where Gallons/Feet have been mixed up with Litres/Metres. Pick ONE peoples! Use ONLY Imperial or Metric measurements!

.

Anyways NEXT SUBJECT! Canon has 120, 240 and 440 megapixel sensors RIGHT NOW! They just need to be put them into ANY DECENT body such as the XC-15 body-style which would make a GREAT combined video/stills camera! If Canon is going to KEEP being stupid, then that recent layoff announcement at Canon USA headquarters will be happening more and more often as OTHER manufacturers start eating Canon's breakfast, lunch and dinner by making fancy big-sensor smartphones and high-feature-set combined stills and video cameras at attractive prices!
.
 

3kramd5

EOS 5D MK IV
Mar 2, 2012
2,953
330
===

Well! Evidently there seems to be a difference between various experiences in terms of regionality and age. Many contemporaries HERE (in Pacific Northwest region of North America) speak of One Click = One Mile. There may even be town-to-town differences but I as of yet haven't noticed that.

Your universe is getting less universal with each post :p