The Radical 1Ds Mark IV [CR1]

[Canon Rumors Guy]

<p><strong>So what’s going on?

<span style="font-weight: normal;">I have received some cryptic information from a good guy about the 1Ds Mark IV or whatever it’ll be called.</span></strong></p>
<p>We have already stated the new camera wouldn’t be around for Photokina and would be released in 2011. With each passing day, I’m believing that more and more.</p>
<p><strong>So what’s so radical?</strong></p>
<p><strong></p>
<ul>
<li><span style="font-weight: normal;">I’m told to take a look at the 4K camera for clues. </span></li>
<li><span style="font-weight: normal;">Don’t disregard the large sensor Canon showed off. Obviously it wouldn’t be that big, but there is something radical about the 1Ds4 sensor.</span></li>
<li><span style="font-weight: normal;">The word “Modular” came up.</span></li>
</ul>
<p></strong></p>
<p>That’s all I have for now.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>

 

[hsmeets]

Hi,

A camera with bigger sensor? Physically bigger? that would most likely warrent for new lenses/mount as the image circle of current lenses would not cover the bigger sensor.

A bigger sensor to archieve what? Same resulotion but better S/R and sensitiity or Higher resolution at same level of S/R and sensitivity? What does this tell us: 'we' hit the limits within the 36x24mm sensor size, 'we' cant no longer improve on one aspect without substantially sacrificing other aspects of the sensor?

Canon trying to take market share from medium format folks? Canon judges the Pentax 645D as a thread?

How big is that MF market in terms of contribution to the net revenue of the Canon Camera Division?

 

[olav]

Modular?
Sounds like digital back so you can update on sensor instead of buying a new camera.

 

[afrank99]

My bet is a square 36x36mm sensor. Square full frame would mean a 50% larger imaging area (thus lower noise) and the possibility to shoot portrait without rotating the camera.
(while maintaining full EF lens compatibility)

The other possibility would be a really large sensor (e.g. 645) with new lenses but with a "crop" option to use existing EF lenses (would give the word "modular" some meaning).

 

[afrank99]

A bigger sensor to archieve what? Same resulotion but better S/R and sensitiity or Higher resolution at same level of S/R and sensitivity? What does this tell us: 'we' hit the limits within the 36x24mm sensor size, 'we' cant no longer improve on one aspect without substantially sacrificing other aspects of the sensor?

I'm starting to repeat myself, but SNR is mostly dependent on sensor surface area. So a physically larger sensor would mean better SNR regardless of its resolution.
And if you can't reduce noise significantly (because technology is at its limits) the only thing you can do is enlarging the signal (equals to "more light" equals to "larger sensor").

 

[Stuart]

My bet is a square 36x36mm sensor. Square full frame .................(while maintaining full EF lens compatibility)

the 24-105mm lens has a rectangular rear section, so this lens would not be suitable for a 36x36mm sensor.

If the lens was further from the sensor then a bigger sensor could be used, though the lens might not focus throughout the whole focal range.
Bite the bullet Canon new Lenses for MF, EVIL, M4/3, and existing FF users - as well as silent focusing for all for video mode... How bust will then be.

 

[Stuart]

A bigger sensor to archieve what? Same resulotion but better S/R and sensitiity or Higher resolution at same level of S/R and sensitivity? What does this tell us: 'we' hit the limits within the 36x24mm sensor size, 'we' cant no longer improve on one aspect without substantially sacrificing other aspects of the sensor?

I'm starting to repeat myself, but SNR is mostly dependent on sensor surface area. So a physically larger sensor would mean better SNR regardless of its resolution.
And if you can't reduce noise significantly (because technology is at its limits) the only thing you can do is enlarging the signal (equals to "more light" equals to "larger sensor").

Your right if we are talking about Bigger Pixel site areas!

 

[ms]

maybe canon is finally realizing that their only FF camera with decent weather sealing and AF should not be 7-8k... since they don't want to loose the elite high price market they need to offer something more in this department (bigger sensor, unprecedented video, etc) while letting the FF/good AF/weather sealing trickle down to the "lower" models.... lets face it, weather or not they care about Nikon you know that the D300 had something to do with the eventual release of the 7D (well, and all the moaning and groaning of us Canon folks)... perhaps the likes of the d700 and the cheap sony FFs (and all the crying about the relative sluggishness of the 5D by the canon crowd) is finally getting them to relent... perhaps its just wishful thinking but hey, Im still hoping for a small, nimble FF body with the big, beautiful EOS mount ... and hey, if the modular thing turns out to be true then they charge a lot more upfront for the 1ds successor if you'll be able to upgrade only parts (sensor) of it later for a lot less then the whole (though I would imagine new sensors need new processors?).

 

[afrank99]

Your right if we are talking about Bigger Pixel site areas!

No, I'm talking about overall sensor size. Pixel size does not matter (much) for overall image noise. I'm getting tired to explain why, but to keep it simple: more light = less noise. Bigger pixels gives more light per pixel, but less pixels, so the overall amount of light (and thus noise) is roughly the same.

 

[Mark D5 TEAM II]

Foveon-type true RGB sensel array, after all, they already have a patent for their version of it, as do Nikon. No more AA LPF, crisp pixels even at 100% pixel-peeping view.

 

[Stone]

I wouldn't be surprised if this pans out. As I said in the other 1Ds thread, there's a lot more money to be made by moving the 1Ds upscale into the medium format space where $20K+ price tags are the norm. Buyers in this market are looking to spend that kind of coin and a killer Medium Format HDDSLR could shake things up in that market quite nicely. Quad Digic V's pushing 50MP files anyone? Canon could also offer a new line of lenses that are not EF mount made specifically for this new system. These customers have the money and Canon believes it has the tech, I have no reason to doubt them.

When it comes to the 1Ds, a lot of people are still thinking about beating Nikon/Sony/Panasonic, I'm willing to bet Canon is thinking about stealing some market share from Leica/Mamiya/Red, I'm definitely cheering for them.

This rumor has me even more excited about the possibilities for the 5DIII, Canon won't need to hold anything back, Go Canon!!!!!!

 

[off topic]

Does the "Modular" reference go back to a rumor from before the 7D released (prior to the site redesign) when there were reports about new DSLR video accessories being tested?

I think bigger sensor refers to higher resolution video capture on 35mm sensor 2K, 4K not a larger physical sensor. Since the rumors of 35mmx35mm square sensor never die maybe that is possible. However, Canon getting into Medium format is unlikely since their cameras have successfully replaced the MF in the still photographers studio and that market segment is not growing at all

 

[J-Man]

Modular: to connect 2 1DsMkIV's to permit 3D VIDEO.
Pixel binning vs line skipping, Foveon type sensor,
4K rez? Time code synchronization, xlr audio in,??
?able to swap EF mount with PL mount.

Just about anything is possible,
With 5DIII coming and a possible 3D... And then there's RED.

 

[afrank99]

Foveon-type true RGB sensel array, after all, they already have a patent for their version of it, as do Nikon. No more AA LPF, crisp pixels even at 100% pixel-peeping view.

I don't think so.
It's better to increase pixel density and scale down afterwards. Remember, Bayer pattern sensor do deliver more details than a Foveon sensor with 1/4th pixel count.
As the total amount of light does not increase with Foveon sensors, there's no noise advantage either.

I'd prefer a 24 MP Bayer pattern sensor over a 8 MP Foveon sensor any time.

 

[Rocky]

I don't think so.
It's better to increase pixel density and scale down afterwards. Remember, Bayer pattern sensor do deliver more details than a Foveon sensor with 1/4th pixel count.

Can you substantiate this????

 

[unfocused]

Okay, time to have a little fun and predict the future. Check back in 2011 or 2012 and see how close I come.

Sensor somewhere in the 50-100mp range. (Not that difficult since Canon has already unveiled a 120mp APS-H sensor.)

Flexible scaling of file size for both RAW and JPEG files, allowing photographer to adjust resolution depending on shooting conditions and needs. (Already available in limited form as small-RAW, small-JPEG, large-JPEG, etc, just more choices and more resolution.)

Digital zoom function that allows photographer to select full frame, 1.3x crop, 1.6x crop, 2x and maybe even 3x or 4x. 100 mp sensor means no appreciable loss in quality, so the photographer can use a 300mm f2.8 lens as a 600mm or 900mm if needed for sports or wildlife shooting. (Canon has been upgrading their L Series lenses to meet the demands of the next generation of high resolution sensors)

Dual card slots, but also can be tethered to an external hard drive, so photographer can wear a portable terabyte hard drive on his belt to store image files while shooting. (Modern-day equivalent of bulk film backs.)

Will NOT have a modular back to change sensors. (Canon has built their reputation on sport and nature photography under extreme conditions. A modular camera just makes weather sealing more difficult and increases the odds of failure. The last thing they want is for the back to leak in the middle of the rain forest. Besides, with a 100 mp sensor, there is no need to switch backs.)

"Modular" may refer to some optional accessories for video use. Not sure, but it will probably have some special features or options available for video. I know nothing about video, so I'll leave that to someone else.

Everything I've identified is already available or under development, so it's all very do-able, but also would cement Canon's position at the head of the technology wars if they put it all together.

That's my prediction. Anyone else want to venture a guess.

 

[Justin]

Creative, but too ambitious. Canon doesn't need to make one camera that does everything. Medium format quality in a full frame sensor. Dynamic cropping in camera is a possibility. Dynamic range should be the primary focus of this camera. EF mount lives on. 50mpx is no problem.

Okay, time to have a little fun and predict the future. Check back in 2011 or 2012 and see how close I come.

Sensor somewhere in the 50-100mp range. (Not that difficult since Canon has already unveiled a 120mp APS-H sensor.)

Flexible scaling of file size for both RAW and JPEG files, allowing photographer to adjust resolution depending on shooting conditions and needs. (Already available in limited form as small-RAW, small-JPEG, large-JPEG, etc, just more choices and more resolution.)

Digital zoom function that allows photographer to select full frame, 1.3x crop, 1.6x crop, 2x and maybe even 3x or 4x. 100 mp sensor means no appreciable loss in quality, so the photographer can use a 300mm f2.8 lens as a 600mm or 900mm if needed for sports or wildlife shooting. (Canon has been upgrading their L Series lenses to meet the demands of the next generation of high resolution sensors)

Dual card slots, but also can be tethered to an external hard drive, so photographer can wear a portable terabyte hard drive on his belt to store image files while shooting. (Modern-day equivalent of bulk film backs.)

Will NOT have a modular back to change sensors. (Canon has built their reputation on sport and nature photography under extreme conditions. A modular camera just makes weather sealing more difficult and increases the odds of failure. The last thing they want is for the back to leak in the middle of the rain forest. Besides, with a 100 mp sensor, there is no need to switch backs.)

"Modular" may refer to some optional accessories for video use. Not sure, but it will probably have some special features or options available for video. I know nothing about video, so I'll leave that to someone else.

Everything I've identified is already available or under development, so it's all very do-able, but also would cement Canon's position at the head of the technology wars if they put it all together.

That's my prediction. Anyone else want to venture a guess.

 

[Master_of_the_Universe]

can be tethered to an external hard drive, so photographer can wear a portable terabyte hard drive on his belt to store image files while shooting.

You can already do this with the wireless grips.

Although only with USB,Firewire 800 would be better.

 

[Edwin Herdman]

You can already [store to external drives] with the wireless grips.

Although only with USB,Firewire 800 would be better.

USB 3.0 would be better yet.

Unfortunately, USB 3 adoption has been remarkably slow even on PC motherboards, let alone peripherals or other devices. We don't even have the 4GB limit per file removed from the 60D (that I know of), so this is a feature for perhaps a few years from now, but maybe sooner.

 

[Master_of_the_Universe]

Except USB has a much heavier CPU overhead than Firewire, so I think Firewire is better in this instance than USB.

However the extra speed could be useful.