The rest of 2019 for Canon will be about updating dated product lines [CR2]

QuisUtDeus

EOS 80D
Feb 20, 2019
115
80
The point is Canon has alot of competitions compared to the yesteryear of mostly Canon vs Nikon. Everyone is offering something different and will take a piece of the pie away from Canon.
The thing that boggles my mind is all the people who insist that they really want the Nikon/ Sony/ Fuji/ whatever pie... but would really rather just whine about it while still buying Canon.
 

jvillain

EOS 80D
Sep 29, 2018
101
82
I am positive that a read an interview with an executive from Canon that said there would be no 90D. I will look for it on the weekend.

That's why I think the next EOS R Pro won't be a revolutionary product. It will have realistic upgrades and take a longer time for a 5D IV replacement. They are trying to reduce as much R&D in their camera body on a dying market especially if they know it's harder to recoup those cost with less sales. This probably why they use used 5D IV sensor in their EOS R and 6D II in their EOS R.
Here is what I don't get about this opinion and you are fully entitled to it. Canon is the big swinging thing when it comes to cameras. So they have far more sales to amortize the research over. So why do they have the smallest research budget and are years behind the other companies in development? Here we have them taking another years vacation. I thought they were turning it around when they promised regular software upgrades but where are the promised fixes for the EAF on the R?
 

bokehmon22

EOS RP
Oct 31, 2016
356
186
The thing that boggles my mind is all the people who insist that they really want the Nikon/ Sony/ Fuji/ whatever pie... but would really rather just whine about it while still buying Canon.
Not according to data. I'm not whining about it neither do many people who has already switched to another FF mirrorless.

https://photorumors.com/2018/11/07/bcn-ranking-full-frame-mirrorless-camera-market-share-sony-67-canon-22-1-nikon-10-4/

https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Mirrorless-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/3109924011/ref=zg_bs_pg_1?_encoding=UTF8&pg=1
 

bokehmon22

EOS RP
Oct 31, 2016
356
186
I am positive that a read an interview with an executive from Canon that said there would be no 90D. I will look for it on the weekend.



Here is what I don't get about this opinion and you are fully entitled to it. Canon is the big swinging thing when it comes to cameras. So they have far more sales to amortize the research over. So why do they have the smallest research budget and are years behind the other companies in development? Here we have them taking another years vacation. I thought they were turning it around when they promised regular software upgrades but where are the promised fixes for the EAF on the R?
Maybe it's because they see the camera market declining a lot and would rather use the profit to invest in their other more profitable and lucrative business. They spent R&D on lenses and just enough for people to buy into the system. I could be wrong, but the results of their last couple FF mirrorless body hasn't been that impressive.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,611
2,075
The point is Canon has alot of competitions compared to the yesteryear of mostly Canon vs Nikon. Everyone is offering something different and will take a piece of the pie away from Canon.
That’s been the case for several years, and no one has eaten any of Canon’s pie yet. But feel free to make that claim if Canon actually loses ILC market share. Until then, the claim is baseless.
 
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rrcphoto

EOS 5D MK IV
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
that's hardly quantitive data.

and your one is just linking "full frame mirrorless" which is only a small portion of the overall market, what the heck good is that?
here's real world data of course it doesn't fit with your narrative that you seem to be consistently posting on.
https://www.canonnews.com/canons-2018-financials-the-market-slides-and-canon-with-it



2016 was artificially high. so if you discount that year, Canon's marketshare has been steadily growing since 2015. In a declining market.
 
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neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,611
2,075
LOLz at the Amazon 'data'. The only thing on the list is a 3rd party 'kit' with a bunch of crap thrown in. Amazon's listings for the RP are confused. The RP + RF24-105 with the free mount adapter is #118 in Camera Lens Adapters & Converters. Yeah, that's where it belongs. Better yet, one of the kits with the EF 24-105 STM is #48,963 in Men's Novelty T-Shirts. An even more appropriate category. Way to go, Amazon.
 
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unfocused

EOS 1D MK II
Jul 20, 2010
5,008
1,366
66
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
I am positive that a read an interview with an executive from Canon that said there would be no 90D. I will look for it on the weekend.
I think either your memory or your source is faulty. It would be very uncharacteristic of Canon to make such a statement, even if true.

...Canon is the big swinging thing when it comes to cameras. So they have far more sales to amortize the research over. So why do they have the smallest research budget and are years behind the other companies in development?...
I was not aware that Canon made their research budget public. Do you have figures on what they spend in comparison to other companies, or is this something you are making up?

I'm also curious how they are "years behind the other companies." As I recall, they tend to be industry leaders in patents and they seem to regularly announce new innovations that they are working on.

Invariably, when people on this forum claim that Canon is "behind" in an area, they are simply cherrypicking the facts -- giving other companies extra points for features the individual finds desirable and discounting features of Canon cameras that others find innovative and desirable.
 

rrcphoto

EOS 5D MK IV
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
I think either your memory or your source is faulty. It would be very uncharacteristic of Canon to make such a statement, even if true.



I was not aware that Canon made their research budget public. Do you have figures on what they spend in comparison to other companies, or is this something you are making up?

I'm also curious how they are "years behind the other companies." As I recall, they tend to be industry leaders in patents and they seem to regularly announce new innovations that they are working on.

Invariably, when people on this forum claim that Canon is "behind" in an area, they are simply cherrypicking the facts -- giving other companies extra points for features the individual finds desirable and discounting features of Canon cameras that others find innovative and desirable.
he's making it up..

R&D (billions of yen)Net Sales (billions of yen)R&D as a percentage of Net Sales
Nikon
66.781​
819.388​
8.15%​
Sony
458.5​
7231.613​
6.34%​
Canon
315.852​
3951.937​
7.99%​

Looking at the last fiscal year financials for the top three.

Seems Sony spends the least against a percentage of sales, which is the common method of looking at R&D expenditures.

Nikon spends the most. Canon is just a shade under Nikon.

Even by actuals Canon spends alot of money on R&D, that's around 2.8 billion USD per year. Yet that's not enough for some.. lol

but hey, can't let facts get in the way of a good narrative ;)
 
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preppyak

EOS 6D MK II
Oct 18, 2011
990
59
I'm curious too, the 80D is only 3 years old, and it's not lacking much (other than possibly 4K). Give it a resolution bump, maybe the better AF system from the 7d Mk II, I'm not even sure what else. A few FPS?

The 7d mark ii is 4.5 years old, I wonder if there still is a chance that these lines get merged?
For it to retail at the same price as the RP, it'll definitely need a few major updates. 4k the bare minimum (and with no DPAF or crop limitations), the competitors all do 1080/120 too, but I doubt Canon matches that. AF system will need more points and a better spread. Probably need to bump the normal and burst FPS by at least 1 if not 2 shots per second.

But you're sort of getting at why the XXD line probably isnt long for this world. While its a great start-out all rounder, it just cant compete spec-wise with say, an a6400...which is gonna double a 90D's frame rate, 10x its AF points, and include things like eye-AF, at 70% the price. A new 7DIII would, but would die at a retail price of $1799 or so for anyone but pros.

In a way, it makes more sense to keep selling 80D's at something like $899 for a while. Because there's no sign that the sensor tech, iso performance, etc is gonna take any major leap forward any time soon to really justify a new version.
 

Chaitanya

EOS 6D MK II
Jun 27, 2013
1,119
202
33
Pune
I'm curious, other than 4K, what would you be hoping for?
No AA filter, deeper buffer, dual card slots(both uhs-ii), usb-c port with charging capability, either af joystick or touch to drag af point selector. Maybe a good quality 1080p 60fps and 4k 30fps(dont mind crop mode). Also if rumours of merging 7D and x0D line are true then implementation of CFexpress slot.
 
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Del Paso

M3 Singlestroke
Aug 9, 2018
560
537
Canon is finished. Dead. Sony will release a beast in a few month, Apple will release a new iphone with 2x better low light capabilities and insane image computing, and by 2022 Canon will realize they actually need to do something that looks like a professional product. We’re in a world today where we talk Iphone 100MP when canon is releasing the RP without 24 frames per second. They diserve their losses
You must have read this in a bird's entrails, or was it in the tea leaves?
Your contributions to this forum are so wonderfully negative.
Do you perhaps take your wishes for realities? If so, expect a huge disappointment!
 

Del Paso

M3 Singlestroke
Aug 9, 2018
560
537
LOLz at the Amazon 'data'. The only thing on the list is a 3rd party 'kit' with a bunch of crap thrown in. Amazon's listings for the RP are confused. The RP + RF24-105 with the free mount adapter is #118 in Camera Lens Adapters & Converters. Yeah, that's where it belongs. Better yet, one of the kits with the EF 24-105 STM is #48,963 in Men's Novelty T-Shirts. An even more appropriate category. Way to go, Amazon.
AND: DPReview belongs to Amazon, so their "statistics" are certainly totally unbiased...:ROFLMAO:
 
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LDS

EOR R
Sep 14, 2012
1,580
152
pple will release a new iphone with 2x better low light capabilities and insane image computing [...[ We’re in a world today where we talk Iphone 100MP
Maybe, but I bet that iPhone XXX with 4TB memory (and no removable card support, nor battery, of course) will cost at least $6,999..... and being Apple, its AI will take only the photos it likes to take. :D
 
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bokehmon22

EOS RP
Oct 31, 2016
356
186
LOLz at the Amazon 'data'. The only thing on the list is a 3rd party 'kit' with a bunch of crap thrown in. Amazon's listings for the RP are confused. The RP + RF24-105 with the free mount adapter is #118 in Camera Lens Adapters & Converters. Yeah, that's where it belongs. Better yet, one of the kits with the EF 24-105 STM is #48,963 in Men's Novelty T-Shirts. An even more appropriate category. Way to go, Amazon.
Feel free to provide any sale info where Canon is gaining shares in the last couple years with more and more competitions entering the market