The Sony Juggernaut?

Bennymiata

EOS 6D MK II
Most large Japanese manufacturers like to make their own major components.
That was one thing that the son of the original Mr Toyoda demanded as he thought that Toyota should not be in the control of other manufacturers and the possible problems relating to short supply or the supplier going broke. So every major component had to be made by either Toyota themselves or by partnership companies - except for tyres.
Toyota made its own engines, gearboxes, even shock absorbers.
This was a big part of their success and Canon seems to have a similar mindset and it's been very successful for them, so why change.
For real photographers, cameras need certain talents and Canon cameras still have gorgeous colour and are very comfortable to hold and use (which Sony R cameras are not) and produce beautiful images even if their specs don't seem to be as good on paper, but in reality, their images are at least as good as any others.
 
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YuengLinger

EOR R
Dec 20, 2012
2,423
476
Southeastern USA
Canon is apparently not interested in buying full frame sensors from Sony as has Nikon. Is this simply NIH hubris or belief that Canon sensors are Superor for Canon’s needs.
How has buying Sony sensors for flagship cameras worked out for Nikon in terms of sales? Folk like to come here and claim Canon is losing market share, but, wow, once-mighty Nikon seems to be fading into complete irrelevance.
 
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sdz

EOS RP
Sep 13, 2016
218
115
Pittsburgh, PA
Canon executive: “Because we can. We don’t really need to, of course, since our excellent Market Research Division confirms that we have dominated the ILC market for 16 years, and over the past few years when Sony has sold Exmor sensors we have gained even more ILC market share.”

Canon serf: “Domo arigato, Boss-san. I understand well, even if many internet-surfing baka do not.”
A mindless effort to mimic my sarcasm. I suppose Canon has gotten to the top of their market by fusing money down the toilet.....
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,423
2,565
Canon does and has used Sony sensors for some time now - the 1" as in the latest G7 III and G5 III. I am not suggesting by this that Canon should use them for FF but just pointing out that Canon does buy in important components when they deem appropriate.
 

sdz

EOS RP
Sep 13, 2016
218
115
Pittsburgh, PA
If he had read the review he would have seen that the link came via CR! (https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-inc-boss-wants-to-see-more-innovation/)
You are doubting I read the interview?

The man made a statement that referred to all of Canon's technology. That includes, logically, the key technological component of its primary business unit, camera senors.

You can tell responders have nothing when they split hairs to conceal the obvious. All of this in response to a post meant to ridicule Sony and Sony trolls. I suppose nuanced thinking passes well over the heads of Canon kool-aid drinkers.
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,423
2,565
You are doubting I read the interview?

The man made a statement that referred to all of Canon's technology. That includes, logically, the key technological component of its primary business unit, camera senors.

You can tell responders have nothing when they split hairs to conceal the obvious. All of this in response to a post meant to ridicule Sony and Sony trolls. I suppose nuanced thinking passes well over the heads of Canon kool-aid drinkers.
I didn't mention interview. It was rather amusing that you were challenged by Kit. to produce your evidence and you gave a link to a review by petapixel, which at the end quoted CR as its source, which you had clearly missed! We had already discussed it at length here a while ago.
 

3kramd5

EOS 5D MK IV
Mar 2, 2012
3,077
397
Why would Canon try to "match" performance of a non-DPAF sensor?
Do you realize that DPAF sensors require twice the pixel count and twice the throughput compared to non-DPAF sensors of the same resolution?
Isn’t that why they would want to match (or exceed) the sensor in a9’s throughout? Because for an even image size they’re reading twice as many sensels.
 

Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,138
552
Isn’t that why they would want to match (or exceed) the sensor in a9’s throughout? Because for an even image size they’re reading twice as many sensels.
Achieving twice as high throughput as your best competitor is not called "to match" and is a bit unrealistic. If Canon wants "to match" the performance of the fastest Sony sensors, they need to drop DPAF.

Now, the question is: do Canon's customers really want that?
 
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3kramd5

EOS 5D MK IV
Mar 2, 2012
3,077
397
Achieving twice as high throughput as your best competitor is not called "to match" and is a bit unrealistic. If Canon wants "to match" the performance of the fastest Sony sensors, they need to drop DPAF.
Now, the question is: do Canon's customers really want that?
All else being equal within its line, Sony was able to achieve triple the readout speed with the sensor they use in a9.

I expect Canon could similarly increase readout by using a memory-integrated stacked dual pixel sensor. That would benefit the AF engine by providing data more frequently. Also EVF responsiveness would improve.

I’m a canon customer, and yes, i’d want that. It might even motivate me to try mirrorless again. Why wouldn’t others? Cost maybe?

You seem to be thinking ‘or.’ Why not ‘and’? Do you believe DPAF and stacked architecture are mutually exclusive?
 
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Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,138
552
All else being equal within its line, Sony was able to achieve triple the readout speed with the sensor they use in a9.
And compared to the competition? To the older 1DX II, in 4k60p DPAF mode?

Sony still had the room to catch up, right?

I expect Canon could similarly increase readout by using a memory-integrated stacked dual pixel sensor. That would benefit the AF engine by providing data more frequently. Also EVF responsiveness would improve.
Unless Canon can implement DPAF cross-correlation calculation logic on the sensor itself, without overheating it, I don't see how integrating memory on the sensor will help with mitigating the doubling of the sensor bandwidth required by DPAF.

I’m a canon customer, and yes, i’d want that. It might even motivate me to try mirrorless again. Why wouldn’t others? Cost maybe?
Or the convenience and precision of DPAF that you are going to miss?

You seem to be thinking ‘or.’ Why not ‘and’? Do you believe DPAF and stacked architecture are mutually exclusive?
No, I just don't believe in silver bullets.
 

3kramd5

EOS 5D MK IV
Mar 2, 2012
3,077
397
And compared to the competition? To the older 1DX II, in 4k60p DPAF mode?
Sony still had the room to catch up, right?
I don’t know, that type of data isn’t really disclosed. I’ve seen indications that most cameras read out at about 1/40-1/50, and that an a9 reads out at about 1/160. Seems like they were all relatively even. There is only one apples to apples comparison I can make; I can’t cross brands.

Unless Canon can implement DPAF cross-correlation calculation logic on the sensor itself, without overheating it, I don't see how integrating memory on the sensor will help with mitigating the doubling of the sensor bandwidth required by DPAF.
I expect they could capable of just that. They aren’t particular aggressive, however, so they probably won’t. I’m happy using SLR and don’t record video so it doesn’t particularly matter to me.

No, I just don't believe in silver bullets.
Nor do it. Silicon chips on the other hand I do.
 
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Jul 12, 2011
375
8
I really don't care what Sony does. I still have several Sony PC's from before they abandoned them. I'm not going to get stuck with a bag of Sony equipment when they decide consumer cameras are a declining business.
 
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