The Unthinkable: Swapped out 5D3 for 6D

[CarlTN]

Yesterday night I was able to take some pictures at a bar with almost no light. I had my 5D3 with 35mm 1.4L.
I was using an off center point and I was amazed that it was able to focus 80% of the time when I couldn't almost see anything with my eyes! I understand that I wasn't close to EV0 but still I was impressed (ISO was either 25K or 50K , f was set to 1.4, speed 80 to 100 and compensation was at +2/3 stop) OK I wasn't going for a masterpiece but for snapshots with lots of noise. The camera/lens combination delivered. I do not know if 6D could do that (off-center focus under these conditions)...

Frankly I don't believe off center focus was vital in your scenario. Post some of the pictures, to help prove otherwise. Focusing at a distance of 5 feet or more, is not going to make a big difference if you focus then recompose. If the focal plane is less than 5 feet (with the 35mm lens), then I could see requiring the off center focus points. But focusing accurately 80% of the time, is not as good as focusing accurately in low light 100% of the time with the 6D's center point, then recomposing. And don't quote the above out of context without this part: For that particular lens, it's likely the 5D3 is a better overall match, especially if you must use AF points outside the center. But as you said, in low light, the 5D3 has some trouble...missing focus for 20% of the shots.

 

[CarlTN]

Part of producing great IQ is auto focus accuracy. The 5D3's AF accuracy is overall, superior. The 6D is also worse in flash sync speed. The 6D's IQ is not better than the 5D3's by any measureable amount. So...

I cannot think of any reason that if you already had a 5D3, you'd gain anything by selling that, and getting a 6D. Starting with the 6D is a great decision, because it's a great camera. But even for things that are great, there is always something better. Going from a 5D3 to a 6D would be a net loss.

Not true at all, it most definitely is better by the ISO noise performance standard I mention over and over. Pure opinion by a 5D3 fanboy...

 

[JohnDizzo15]

If all you shoot is your family and it's still portraiture, the 6D will be SUPERIOR to the 5D3 for most scenarios. Not all, but most.

Oh my, I won't get into an argument with you, but this is sooooo unreasonable - with a faster lens like f2.8 which you'll often use for portraiture, the 6d's center point is non-cross, meaning you carefully have to focus on an appropriate contrast part or you'll get af (micro)-misses. The bit of 6d less noise (if any) certainly doesn't compensate for that.

Agreed. It is these kinds of comments, that the 6D is superior to the 5D III "for most scenarios", that is so wrong. The 6D is superior "technically, in a FEW areas", but in EVERY respect and in every scenario, the 5D III is the superior camera that will perform superiorly and produce better images.

Definitely agreed regarding actually making images. I loved my 5d3 for the fact that it made getting the shot easier for me. I am definitely getting more misses and need to be much more mindful of the AF. Did a 4 hour shoot on Friday that would have definitely been easier with the 5D.

Results based on glass used:

24II was off a lot. Not completely. But definitely was not focusing critically most of the time. Yes, it has been run through FoCal with the new body.

24-70II was having a hard time capturing focus at all but was decent when it finally hit.

70-200II worked perfectly. But it was also solely used in the outdoor portion of the event

50L was performed on par with how it was on the 5D just based on memory (surprisingly).

8-15 fine as expected just due to the type of lens

The 5D? You mean the 5D classic? I find that difficult to believe.

My apologies for the ambiguity. I'm referring to the 5d3. For all future conversations, I will never be referring to prior iterations of the 5D unless specifically stated.

 

[CarlTN]

Part of producing great IQ is auto focus accuracy. The 5D3's AF accuracy is overall, superior. The 6D is also worse in flash sync speed. The 6D's IQ is not better than the 5D3's by any measureable amount. So...

I cannot think of any reason that if you already had a 5D3, you'd gain anything by selling that, and getting a 6D. Starting with the 6D is a great decision, because it's a great camera. But even for things that are great, there is always something better. Going from a 5D3 to a 6D would be a net loss.

At high ISO, the 6D does have a measurable improvement over the 5D III. It isn't huge, we aren't talking about anything along the lines of the D800's ISO 100 gap, by any means. But in the cases where clean high ISO performance is useful, such as astrophotography, I would pick the 6D over the 5D III any day (assuming, that is, that I picked a DSLR...for truly serious astrophotography, I'd probably get something like this: QHY11 11mp FF Monochrome CCD ;D)

Thank you for at least clarifying this. However, you seem to disagree with it when I say it...

 

[CarlTN]

If all you shoot is your family and it's still portraiture, the 6D will be SUPERIOR to the 5D3 for most scenarios. Not all, but most.

Oh my, I won't get into an argument with you, but this is sooooo unreasonable - with a faster lens like f2.8 which you'll often use for portraiture, the 6d's center point is non-cross, meaning you carefully have to focus on an appropriate contrast part or you'll get af (micro)-misses. The bit of 6d less noise (if any) certainly doesn't compensate for that.

Agreed. It is these kinds of comments, that the 6D is superior to the 5D III "for most scenarios", that is so wrong. The 6D is superior "technically, in a FEW areas", but in EVERY respect and in every scenario, the 5D III is the superior camera that will perform superiorly and produce better images.

Definitely agreed regarding actually making images. I loved my 5d3 for the fact that it made getting the shot easier for me. I am definitely getting more misses and need to be much more mindful of the AF. Did a 4 hour shoot on Friday that would have definitely been easier with the 5D.

Results based on glass used:

24II was off a lot. Not completely. But definitely was not focusing critically most of the time. Yes, it has been run through FoCal with the new body.

24-70II was having a hard time capturing focus at all but was decent when it finally hit.

70-200II worked perfectly. But it was also solely used in the outdoor portion of the event

50L was performed on par with how it was on the 5D just based on memory (surprisingly).

8-15 fine as expected just due to the type of lens

The 5D? You mean the 5D classic? I find that difficult to believe.

My apologies for the ambiguity. I'm referring to the 5d3. For all future conversations, I will never be referring to prior iterations of the 5D unless specifically stated.

Ok just refer to it as the 5D3.

I'm not saying there won't be more misses with the 6D in good light vs. the 5D3, especially with certain lenses such as the 70-200 f/2.8 ii. But that's why the 5D3 costs more, because it is faster processing/shooting, has a superior AF system in good light, and that system is tuned for, and meant specifically to get the most focus accuracy for three of Canon's newest (and fastest AF'ing) lenses...the 24-70 f/2.8 ii, the 70-200 f/2.8 ii, and the 300mm f/2.8 ii (as well as the other series 2 big whites). However, for all other lenses, the precision advantage will be less so. Still there, but less so. And that's in good light. I admit most professional application events are in good light. However, most low light wildlife shooting, low light people shooting, and of course landscape, are vastly better served by the 6D's center point, and its IQ specifically in the ISO range that these shots would employ.

So I state categorically NO, the 5D3 is NOT better in "every scenario" than the 6D. Anyone who says otherwise is a biased 5D3 fanboy, in my book.

 

[tron]

Yesterday night I was able to take some pictures at a bar with almost no light. I had my 5D3 with 35mm 1.4L.
I was using an off center point and I was amazed that it was able to focus 80% of the time when I couldn't almost see anything with my eyes! I understand that I wasn't close to EV0 but still I was impressed (ISO was either 25K or 50K , f was set to 1.4, speed 80 to 100 and compensation was at +2/3 stop) OK I wasn't going for a masterpiece but for snapshots with lots of noise. The camera/lens combination delivered. I do not know if 6D could do that (off-center focus under these conditions)...

Frankly I don't believe off center focus was vital in your scenario. Post some of the pictures, to help prove otherwise. Focusing at a distance of 5 feet or more, is not going to make a big difference if you focus then recompose. If the focal plane is less than 5 feet (with the 35mm lens), then I could see requiring the off center focus points. But focusing accurately 80% of the time, is not as good as focusing accurately in low light 100% of the time with the 6D's center point, then recomposing. And don't quote the above out of context without this part: For that particular lens, it's likely the 5D3 is a better overall match, especially if you must use AF points outside the center. But as you said, in low light, the 5D3 has some trouble...missing focus for 20% of the shots.

80% = About 8 pictures out of 10 since I could not even see where I was focusing with my eyes! In these 2 attempts the camera had refused to focus, it didn't focus inaccurately. Simple as that. And yes I was that close. Plus there was movement in the dark.

 

[CarlTN]

Yesterday night I was able to take some pictures at a bar with almost no light. I had my 5D3 with 35mm 1.4L.
I was using an off center point and I was amazed that it was able to focus 80% of the time when I couldn't almost see anything with my eyes! I understand that I wasn't close to EV0 but still I was impressed (ISO was either 25K or 50K , f was set to 1.4, speed 80 to 100 and compensation was at +2/3 stop) OK I wasn't going for a masterpiece but for snapshots with lots of noise. The camera/lens combination delivered. I do not know if 6D could do that (off-center focus under these conditions)...

Frankly I don't believe off center focus was vital in your scenario. Post some of the pictures, to help prove otherwise. Focusing at a distance of 5 feet or more, is not going to make a big difference if you focus then recompose. If the focal plane is less than 5 feet (with the 35mm lens), then I could see requiring the off center focus points. But focusing accurately 80% of the time, is not as good as focusing accurately in low light 100% of the time with the 6D's center point, then recomposing. And don't quote the above out of context without this part: For that particular lens, it's likely the 5D3 is a better overall match, especially if you must use AF points outside the center. But as you said, in low light, the 5D3 has some trouble...missing focus for 20% of the shots.

80% = About 8 pictures out of 10 since I could not even see where I was focusing with my eyes! In these 2 attempts the camera had refused to focus, it didn't focus inaccurately. Simple as that. And yes I was that close. Plus there was movement in the dark.

Gotcha...but if you need to focus on things you can't even see through the viewfinder, the 6D's center point is always going to achieve focus...usually quite accurate as long as you use multiple half press. If you're just swinging the camera around and running here or there or something, in the dark...and don't take the extra time to make sure the focus is right...then you should be glad you got any usable shots at all.

 

[RLPhoto]

I am assuming you are happy with these ?

Was that a statement or question? Yes, I'm happy with those photos

I was wondering why you posted them in this thread..... shots like these could have been taken with a 6D you decided to use an outer focus point which is fine but you could have quite easily used the centre point either with BBF or not!!

Really? Mind posting a few images?

 

[Janbo Makimbo]

I am assuming you are happy with these ?

Was that a statement or question? Yes, I'm happy with those photos

I was wondering why you posted them in this thread..... shots like these could have been taken with a 6D you decided to use an outer focus point which is fine but you could have quite easily used the centre point either with BBF or not!!

Really? Mind posting a few images?

Okay I was trying to be civil, I was wondering what point you were trying to make posting mediocre images in this thread!! Was it to illustrate how superior you think the 5D3 is because if it was i think you failed miserably!!

 

[RLPhoto]

I am assuming you are happy with these ?

Was that a statement or question? Yes, I'm happy with those photos

I was wondering why you posted them in this thread..... shots like these could have been taken with a 6D you decided to use an outer focus point which is fine but you could have quite easily used the centre point either with BBF or not!!

Really? Mind posting a few images?

Okay I was trying to be civil, I was wondering what point you were trying to make posting mediocre images in this thread!! Was it to illustrate how superior you think the 5D3 is because if it was i think you failed miserably!!

XD that's cute, with your little tantrum. I'd re-read what you just wrote because its ludicrously funny.

Calling someone else's images mediocre while raising yourself with no images makes you look very bad and of sub-par IQ. ;D

 

[Janbo Makimbo]

I am assuming you are happy with these ?

Was that a statement or question? Yes, I'm happy with those photos

I was wondering why you posted them in this thread..... shots like these could have been taken with a 6D you decided to use an outer focus point which is fine but you could have quite easily used the centre point either with BBF or not!!

Really? Mind posting a few images?

Okay I was trying to be civil, I was wondering what point you were trying to make posting mediocre images in this thread!! Was it to illustrate how superior you think the 5D3 is because if it was i think you failed miserably!!

XD that's cute, with your little tantrum. I'd re-read what you just wrote because its ludicrously funny.

Calling someone else's images mediocre while raising yourself with no images makes you look very bad and of sub-par IQ. ;D

I have posted superior images to those in the appropriate thread and they were taken with a 6D, I did not post them and try to make a silly point on someone elses post!! But hey if you are happy with them then good luck!!

 

[jrista]

Part of producing great IQ is auto focus accuracy. The 5D3's AF accuracy is overall, superior. The 6D is also worse in flash sync speed. The 6D's IQ is not better than the 5D3's by any measureable amount. So...

I cannot think of any reason that if you already had a 5D3, you'd gain anything by selling that, and getting a 6D. Starting with the 6D is a great decision, because it's a great camera. But even for things that are great, there is always something better. Going from a 5D3 to a 6D would be a net loss.

At high ISO, the 6D does have a measurable improvement over the 5D III. It isn't huge, we aren't talking about anything along the lines of the D800's ISO 100 gap, by any means. But in the cases where clean high ISO performance is useful, such as astrophotography, I would pick the 6D over the 5D III any day (assuming, that is, that I picked a DSLR...for truly serious astrophotography, I'd probably get something like this: QHY11 11mp FF Monochrome CCD ;D)

Thank you for at least clarifying this. However, you seem to disagree with it when I say it...

I only disagree with you when you say the 6D is better overall than the 5D III...which I believe you have said a few times, in as many words. ;P

 

[tron]

Yesterday night I was able to take some pictures at a bar with almost no light. I had my 5D3 with 35mm 1.4L.
I was using an off center point and I was amazed that it was able to focus 80% of the time when I couldn't almost see anything with my eyes! I understand that I wasn't close to EV0 but still I was impressed (ISO was either 25K or 50K , f was set to 1.4, speed 80 to 100 and compensation was at +2/3 stop) OK I wasn't going for a masterpiece but for snapshots with lots of noise. The camera/lens combination delivered. I do not know if 6D could do that (off-center focus under these conditions)...

Frankly I don't believe off center focus was vital in your scenario. Post some of the pictures, to help prove otherwise. Focusing at a distance of 5 feet or more, is not going to make a big difference if you focus then recompose. If the focal plane is less than 5 feet (with the 35mm lens), then I could see requiring the off center focus points. But focusing accurately 80% of the time, is not as good as focusing accurately in low light 100% of the time with the 6D's center point, then recomposing. And don't quote the above out of context without this part: For that particular lens, it's likely the 5D3 is a better overall match, especially if you must use AF points outside the center. But as you said, in low light, the 5D3 has some trouble...missing focus for 20% of the shots.

80% = About 8 pictures out of 10 since I could not even see where I was focusing with my eyes! In these 2 attempts the camera had refused to focus, it didn't focus inaccurately. Simple as that. And yes I was that close. Plus there was movement in the dark.

Gotcha...but if you need to focus on things you can't even see through the viewfinder, the 6D's center point is always going to achieve focus...usually quite accurate as long as you use multiple half press. If you're just swinging the camera around and running here or there or something, in the dark...and don't take the extra time to make sure the focus is right...then you should be glad you got any usable shots at all.

I was pointing the outer focusing at the face towards the eye and even if I missed it by little it was much better than ruining the composition by trying to use the center focus point at the eye or keeping the composition and using the center point to focus somewhere else.

You have such a strong opinion for a situation you weren't in front - and true I hadn't described 100% because I never thought I had to - that apart from a Canon super expert you seem to behave like a psychic or something :

 

[RLPhoto]

I am assuming you are happy with these ?

Was that a statement or question? Yes, I'm happy with those photos

I was wondering why you posted them in this thread..... shots like these could have been taken with a 6D you decided to use an outer focus point which is fine but you could have quite easily used the centre point either with BBF or not!!

Really? Mind posting a few images?

Okay I was trying to be civil, I was wondering what point you were trying to make posting mediocre images in this thread!! Was it to illustrate how superior you think the 5D3 is because if it was i think you failed miserably!!

XD that's cute, with your little tantrum. I'd re-read what you just wrote because its ludicrously funny.

Calling someone else's images mediocre while raising yourself with no images makes you look very bad and of sub-par IQ. ;D

I have posted superior images to those in the appropriate thread and they were taken with a 6D, I did not post them and try to make a silly point on someone elses post!! But hey if you are happy with them then good luck!!

You haven't posted any photos on CR. Your attachments bin is empty. XD quite hilarious. perhaps we can see your photos because after all these photos are "mediocre" to your high standards.

Please link us to the threads because perhaps you posted from flickr.

 

[privatebydesign]

Just playing devils advocate here for a second, and I am not interested in a bitch slap contest.

While there is absolutely nothing wrong with the images Dylan777 posted here http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,18417.msg347711.html#msg347711 as an example of AF performance they are not particularly convincing images. The dancers are in white against dark green curtains, this provides very good contrast, an easy target for AF, also there is no depth of field at play here, the dancers are so far away and close enough together to be well covered even when shot at f2.8, certainly going by the sizes as displayed here. Indeed as displayed both the footlights and the curtains seem acceptably sharp.

 

[Dylan777]

Just playing devils advocate here for a second, and I am not interested in a bitch slap contest.

While there is absolutely nothing wrong with the images Dylan777 posted here http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,18417.msg347711.html#msg347711 as an example of AF performance they are not particularly convincing images. , also there is no depth of field at play here, the dancers are so far away and close enough together to be well covered even when shot at f2.8, certainly going by the sizes as displayed here. Indeed as displayed both the footlights and the curtains seem acceptably sharp.

The photos were resized to post here.

I agree with you about distance and DOF. My point was - since 5D III has 41 AF points(dual cross & cross), why not frame and shoot with one of outer points especially I'm interested keeping the last girl on the right in focus.

In regard of - "The dancers are in white against dark green curtains, this provides very good contrast, an easy target for AF" - you think 6D outer AF point(s) be able deliver same sharpness?

 

[Janbo Makimbo]

I am assuming you are happy with these ?

Was that a statement or question? Yes, I'm happy with those photos

I was wondering why you posted them in this thread..... shots like these could have been taken with a 6D you decided to use an outer focus point which is fine but you could have quite easily used the centre point either with BBF or not!!

Really? Mind posting a few images?

Okay I was trying to be civil, I was wondering what point you were trying to make posting mediocre images in this thread!! Was it to illustrate how superior you think the 5D3 is because if it was i think you failed miserably!!

XD that's cute, with your little tantrum. I'd re-read what you just wrote because its ludicrously funny.

Calling someone else's images mediocre while raising yourself with no images makes you look very bad and of sub-par IQ. ;D

I have posted superior images to those in the appropriate thread and they were taken with a 6D, I did not post them and try to make a silly point on someone elses post!! But hey if you are happy with them then good luck!!

You haven't posted any photos on CR. Your attachments bin is empty. XD quite hilarious. perhaps we can see your photos because after all these photos are "mediocre" to your high standards.

Please link us to the threads because perhaps you posted from flickr.

I went into the 6D Sample images post and type in my name, here is a link.... http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,11600.msg301685/topicseen.html#msg301685

 

[Dylan777]

I am assuming you are happy with these ?

Was that a statement or question? Yes, I'm happy with those photos

I was wondering why you posted them in this thread..... shots like these could have been taken with a 6D you decided to use an outer focus point which is fine but you could have quite easily used the centre point either with BBF or not!!

Really? Mind posting a few images?

Okay I was trying to be civil, I was wondering what point you were trying to make posting mediocre images in this thread!! Was it to illustrate how superior you think the 5D3 is because if it was i think you failed miserably!!

XD that's cute, with your little tantrum. I'd re-read what you just wrote because its ludicrously funny.

Calling someone else's images mediocre while raising yourself with no images makes you look very bad and of sub-par IQ. ;D

I have posted superior images to those in the appropriate thread and they were taken with a 6D, I did not post them and try to make a silly point on someone elses post!! But hey if you are happy with them then good luck!!

You haven't posted any photos on CR. Your attachments bin is empty. XD quite hilarious. perhaps we can see your photos because after all these photos are "mediocre" to your high standards.

Please link us to the threads because perhaps you posted from flickr.

I went into the 6D Sample images post and type in my name, here is a link.... http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,11600.msg301685/topicseen.html#msg301685

You have any photos taken with 6D with subject moving around, exp. kids?

 

[privatebydesign]

In regard of - "The dancers are in white against dark green curtains, this provides very good contrast, an easy target for AF" - you think 6D outer AF point(s) be able deliver same sharpness?

I'd expect my EOS-M with adapter and EF lens to lock focus on that kind of contrast. Seriously. This isn't a pissing contest, it is just a measure of contrast, there is a huge amount of contrast between the dancers in white with stage lights on them and the dark green light absorbing curtains, at iso 8,000 you have over 8 stops of dynamic range, some of the white dresses are blown and some of the footlights and orchestra pit black, that is a contrast ratio in the order of 300:1, an easy target for AF. By contrast (no pun intended) the 6D AF center point is rated down to -3EV, a contrast ratio in the low double digits.

Again, this is not a judgement of the images, purely a deconstruction of the task the AF was asked to perform. I am not suggesting for one second that the off center AF points in the 6D can come close to the performance of the 5D MkIII off center AF points, just that the two posted images are not good examples of where the differences would show up.

 

[Janbo Makimbo]

I am assuming you are happy with these ?

Was that a statement or question? Yes, I'm happy with those photos

I was wondering why you posted them in this thread..... shots like these could have been taken with a 6D you decided to use an outer focus point which is fine but you could have quite easily used the centre point either with BBF or not!!

Really? Mind posting a few images?

Okay I was trying to be civil, I was wondering what point you were trying to make posting mediocre images in this thread!! Was it to illustrate how superior you think the 5D3 is because if it was i think you failed miserably!!

XD that's cute, with your little tantrum. I'd re-read what you just wrote because its ludicrously funny.

Calling someone else's images mediocre while raising yourself with no images makes you look very bad and of sub-par IQ. ;D

I have posted superior images to those in the appropriate thread and they were taken with a 6D, I did not post them and try to make a silly point on someone elses post!! But hey if you are happy with them then good luck!!

You haven't posted any photos on CR. Your attachments bin is empty. XD quite hilarious. perhaps we can see your photos because after all these photos are "mediocre" to your high standards.

Please link us to the threads because perhaps you posted from flickr.

I went into the 6D Sample images post and type in my name, here is a link.... http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,11600.msg301685/topicseen.html#msg301685

You have any photos taken with 6D with subject moving around, exp. kids?

err no, I never said I did ?