Trying to start a Photography Business but surrounded by amateurs!

[jdramirez]

I think the simple answer to this is... catalog. Your last work will warrant a premium for your future work.

Make sure your catalog is stunning and blows away the competition.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I am trying to get my photography business running but I am encountering a problem I am sure we all have:

"Everyone's a photographer!"

Seems these days if you buy yourself a cheap DSLR and know how to press the shutter you can call your self a professional photographer.
The quality of the prints doesn't seem to matter, or does the fact that they are pricing their "services" so low they are killing the decent photographers out there.

I am surrounded by these, one who tapes a white sheet to the wall, sticks a light on it and claims to shoot "state of the art high-key!"
Another is offering shoots at 50% of my cost and giving the client a CD with all of the shots on them.

Clients seem to be going for the cheaper price and ignoring the fact I am producing very high quality, professionaly shot photographs for only marginally more cost.

How do you deal with this in your location?

You are correct about people who think that by going out and purchasing a DSLR, are flooding the market with low cost photography offers.


Its been going on for several years, so any one planning to start a photography business needs to be aware of this before investing time and energy into yet another photography business. Professional photography businesses are dropping like flies. Newspapers and other media now source a lot of their material from amateurs who send in photos and videos for free!

My first thought is that anyone trying to start up a photography business was first a amateur. They are not all made equally, of course, but they are welcome to try, some are talented, and word of mouth spreads quickly. Others are not and only catch a few fools looking for a bargain.

Perhaps I did not understand your post and you have worked for someone else for a few years, or are you another just trying to get into business for the first time?

To gain a foothold, you will need to advertise your work, not only by using social media, but thru TV and local magazines / newspapers. Be sure to show examples of your work. A mass mailing will bring in a lot of new business as well, and that can cause a lot of secondary word of mouth business.

Its tough, and being a businessman first and a photographer 2nd is a must.

 

[Don Haines]

Dear Friend Scott_McPhee .
The PRO call us " Uncle Bob"----That Include ME, ( Some times)---BUT only time that The Bride and Groom / My Close relative ask me to take the photos in their wedding for them, AND they truss me and do not like their Dad& Mom hire that Professional Photogrraphers.
BUT, My rules : When, I am at the Wedding, I( Camera gears in the trunk of my SUV) go to talk to the PRO , tell them that I am her uncle ( of the Bride), and the Bride & Groom want me to take the Candid Photos for them , Just for FUN. Yes, I tell them that I will not use Flash, And Use the Long Zoom lens at the back or at the Sides of their Photographers, Never at their front, or in their Pictures.----Tell them, If they do not like , Please go to tell the Bride to stop me, And I will not take any Photos. But If you stop me, There are 1,000 guests in this ceremony will use their I-Phones, Tablets, Canon 1DX or Nikon D4 to take the wedding photos any ways.

I do like this for last 20 years, And NO PRO will refuse my offer----Ha, Ha, Ha, EXCEPT ONE PRO, after they see my Photography Equipment include Canon 600 mm Lens that I use for shooting from the Balcony of the Sanctuary 300 feet from Altar, where the Wedding ceremony take place---In Candle light Lit, And He came to ask me to share these photos, Yes, I let him use my big lens with his Canon T3

If you are " Uncle Bob" like me, Please talk to The PRO first, before you interrupt their paid duty, BUT if you are the PRO, please understand that " USA, land, are the land of freedom---any one can do any thing / Under the laws, as their wishes---And You, THE PRO do not worry about UNCLE BOB, His photos might like the SH_T, when compare to the PRO like you. Let uncle BOB happy and smile in this wedding---YES, the Most important factors = Uncle Bob will spend $ 1,000 US Dollars to buy the prints from you, and give to Bride and Groom.

Just my IDEAS.---Only my Ideas---Many of our friends might have very difference Ideas.
Have a great work week, Sir.
Surapon

If you are an uncle Bob at a wedding I shoot and bring your 600mm lens, and let me borrow it, I will let you stand wherever you wish
The only uncle Bob's I have problems with are the ones who were going to shoot the wedding but at the last minute the couple panics and thinks a pro might be the way to go. Then poor Bob's feelings get hurt and he still tries to shoot the wedding like it's his. That's when I have to start (like in the video you attached) have to unfortunately start stepping in front of him/her. Thank goodness that's been very rare. And you're right, there are lot's of uncle Bobs at weddings and you have to learn very quickly how to get over that and work around it if needed because it's not something that will every go away.
And nice to hear you , surapon, are a considerate Bob. But I'm not surprised. From the posts of yours that I've seen, you seem like one of the most polite and considerate people I've never had the pleasure of meeting.

I've been "Uncle Bob" at a couple of weddings... except I go talk to the photographer and offer to be an unpaid second (or third) shooter for the day and tell them they can copy my memory cards at the end of the day and use the pictures... Far better to be an assistant than an annoyance... and a second shooter who knows who in the crowd is important is a valuable asset.

 

[Quasimodo]

I am trying to get my photography business running but I am encountering a problem I am sure we all have:

Clients seem to be going for the cheaper price and ignoring the fact I am producing very high quality, professionaly shot photographs for only marginally more cost.

How do you deal with this in your location?

The way I deal with this is that I try to get all the clients I can get. Being a keen amateur who loves to take pictures and to have great equipment, I pick up the assignments I can to nurture this habit of mine.

Seriously, photography is not a mercantilistic marked. Be good at what you do, market your skills. A client will always want to know why you charge higher. The burden of this proof lies with you.

 

[emag]

I've been "Uncle Bob" at a couple of weddings... except I go talk to the photographer and offer to be an unpaid second (or third) shooter for the day and tell them they can copy my memory cards at the end of the day and use the pictures... Far better to be an assistant than an annoyance... and a second shooter who knows who in the crowd is important is a valuable asset.

Exactly.

 

[Quasimodo]

Hello Scott, I'm your worst nightmare! No, not really, I hope anyway that I'm not classified as an idiot with a rebel that calls himself a pro (because I neither have a rebel, nor do I call myself a pro).
However, inadvertently, I do take away some of your business because I price low since I have a day job and I do photography for fun. I could go completely free as a matter of fact, but I charge for three reasons: a) so that I don't create the "free photographer" reputation, b) so that I offset some equipment, and c) out of respect to you. Yeah, I'm not into the business of destroying your business.

Anyway, I have some advice for you as to how you can explain to the customer that you are better than me.

First, I don't have a real studio. I have lights, backdrops, props and stuff, but I convert my house into a studio when I have a gig. Show your high paying clients your studio and make a point about it. Somebody who's willing to pay top dollar would probably find my living-room studio a little stupid and your real studio more appealing.

Second, I don't have time to postprocess, since I have a day job. I do postprocess of course, and I do a lot of it, but that means that my clients have to wait for weeks before they get their pictures back. Show your client a before and after picture where you did magic in photoshop and tell them that they'll get this type of service from you and they'll get it fast.

Third, I don't have the volume of pictures to make any local printing store pay attention to me. Go to a local store and persuade them to give you a discount in return for doing all your prints there. Then offer the client complete solutions (albums, mugs for grandma, canvas, whatnot).

Fourth, I don't have time for photography all the time, so I have to squeeze my clients in my busy schedule. Offer them flexible scheduling and offer them to do things at their place, if they prefer (pregnant ladies like that, and so do parents of infants).

Finally, advertise yourself locally. Facebook might bring you customers, or it might bring you the wrong customers, but going to a maternity clinic and leaving a few cards with your contact info and a few nice maternity shots on them, could do miracles.

Well put!

 

[mackguyver]

Hello Scott, I'm your worst nightmare! No, not really, I hope anyway that I'm not classified as an idiot with a rebel that calls himself a pro (because I neither have a rebel, nor do I call myself a pro).
However, inadvertently, I do take away some of your business because I price low since I have a day job and I do photography for fun. I could go completely free as a matter of fact, but I charge for three reasons: a) so that I don't create the "free photographer" reputation, b) so that I offset some equipment, and c) out of respect to you. Yeah, I'm not into the business of destroying your business.

Anyway, I have some advice for you as to how you can explain to the customer that you are better than me.

First, I don't have a real studio. I have lights, backdrops, props and stuff, but I convert my house into a studio when I have a gig. Show your high paying clients your studio and make a point about it. Somebody who's willing to pay top dollar would probably find my living-room studio a little stupid and your real studio more appealing.

Second, I don't have time to postprocess, since I have a day job. I do postprocess of course, and I do a lot of it, but that means that my clients have to wait for weeks before they get their pictures back. Show your client a before and after picture where you did magic in photoshop and tell them that they'll get this type of service from you and they'll get it fast.

Third, I don't have the volume of pictures to make any local printing store pay attention to me. Go to a local store and persuade them to give you a discount in return for doing all your prints there. Then offer the client complete solutions (albums, mugs for grandma, canvas, whatnot).

Fourth, I don't have time for photography all the time, so I have to squeeze my clients in my busy schedule. Offer them flexible scheduling and offer them to do things at their place, if they prefer (pregnant ladies like that, and so do parents of infants).

Finally, advertise yourself locally. Facebook might bring you customers, or it might bring you the wrong customers, but going to a maternity clinic and leaving a few cards with your contact info and a few nice maternity shots on them, could do miracles.

Well put!

I have a different strategy altogether. I'm a part-time pro and 80% of my advertising is by word of mouth and the other 20% is from donation of my services or work to charities. Note that I don't have any commercial work on my website and don't have a Facebook page. I don't have a studio, either, but all of my gear is ready for travel. I price at regular commercial rates and produce unique and high quality work that keeps my services in demand. Most importantly, I solve my customer's problems. That could mean getting shots no one else wants to get, doing weeks of work in a few days, fulfilling and installing special print orders, or just about anything else they might need that is related to photography, including giving them referrals to other good photographers when I'm busy or don't do that kind of work. In terms of time, I work nights or weekends to make sure I get their work back to them quickly as is expected in today's world. I shoot as technically perfect as possible so my work can be used for their website or billboards, which has been the case with one client.

I don't nickel & dime or charge sitting fees & overpriced print fees. My work is expensive, but comes with an exclusive perpetual license. They can do anything other than re-sell my work which saves us both the headache of additional licensing costs and coming back to me anytime they want to use them. I feel that I protect the market, make good money, and have fun by working this way. It's not a strategy for everyone but I've been successful with it.

 

[sagittariansrock]

For example, two photographers take a clients picture, one professional one pro-beginner.
Both shots are presented to the client - pro's looks amazing, costs $200 pro-beginner, rough $20.
Which print sells?

As a consumer, I'd say the amazing $ 200 from the pro.
Because nowadays everyone has the equipment and know-how to produce a rough $ 20 image. It doesn't impress anyone any more.

I went to JCP portraits the other day- my first venture there. It was shot professionally, but the photos weren't great- even I can do better. I am much more likely to spend $$ next time and visit a proper professional for my next studio session.

Great suggestions from Anthony- and I shall reiterate. Just advertise your work, be a great guy to work with, and I am sure you will be a fantastic resource to your community.
Loved your high key photos. Maybe add some great ones of pets, too (your dog is beautiful- maybe some more situations, and cropped better?).

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

A good photographer wouldn't need to worry about amateurs

I object to that one! Go look at my pictures before you start slagging me off.
This is something that is effecting us all.

Apart from the above comment, there are some great views in response to my original post.

I do charge a sitting fee and include in that a set of mounted, fully finished prints that the customer gets to choose and keep.
If they want extra prints or shots on canvas they pay for them.
To me, this is fair because the one hour sitting fee always goes beyond it, the shots are taken in their own home and they get virtually every shot I take to choose from.

To get clients in I could drop my prices or give "offers" but a friend of mine tried this by doing very low priced "intro" shoots - he then got a lot of backlash from customers wanting to know why his prices has suddenly gone up and from others who were not getting the same deal.
You can get stuck in budget-zone here and it can become very difficult to get your prices back up to a decent level.
I would rather shoot less for more than more for less.

All around us there are people with cameras launching themselves as "Photographers" and it will continue to impact on the photography industry.
The attraction of "Instagram" type photos has taken the professional quality away from our work - as I seen on a recent shoot done by a rival that I thought had been shot on a mobile phone!

anthonyd - I work in the same way as you my friend, I respect your views

This was really aimed at other opinions and methods for combating the pro-beginner as I call them.

For example, two photographers take a clients picture, one professional one pro-beginner.
Both shots are presented to the client - pro's looks amazing, costs $200 pro-beginner, rough $20.
Which print sells?

There are lots of things to say to this whole topic. First off, where do you draw the line between pro, emerging pro, beginner, and uncle bob? Would you concede that most pros got their starts as uncle bob? I mean - at least here in the US there is no formal system for training and certification for photogs. Going to college doesn't do it unless you want to learn how to shoot B&W still lifes - in the US if you want to go the school route it's better to go for classes in small business and economics and just buy a camera and learn that end on your own or find a pro and learn under them. With that said, Im not bashing those who went to college with photography as their major, just saying that the bulk of the pros I know did not go that route.

Even if you train under a master, when you break out on your own your still going to be in the lower price bracket and that does come with it's challenges. To use you last statement, but I will alter it a tad - "For example, two three photographers take a clients picture, one high level professional, one low level professional, pro-beginner. Shots are presented to the client -High level pro are perfect but also came at the extra cost of having assistants present to hold lights and reflectors but total cost of the shoot was closer to $600 pro's looks amazing, costs $200 pro-beginner, rough $20. Which print sells?"

The answer - is ---- it depends! the lowest end client will most likely buy nothing more than what was originally agreed upon, and they will want the RAW files and all of them edited. The mid range will buy that $200 print, but that's that - its not that they don't want more its just all that they can afford. The $600 client will buy a large print mounted to metal or acrylic or a stretched canvas and a small album.

Now with all that said - here in the US we have another factor at play - the big box store portrait studio. the good old JC penny, walmart, sears, etc, etc. These large scale entities will charge less than uncle bob and offer more in product, but less in shooting time. this is where the competition really is because this is where most people go for their portraits (think about it, how many family pictures are taken at big box stores....).

As to prices, I don't see any issues with offering sales. Will it rub some the wrong way? Sure, but this is the way business works - all business's offer sales. If you buy a pair of shoes for $90 then a week later see they are on sale for $60 do you rush into the store and raise hell, or do you sigh and say thats the way the cookie crumbles? I've been a creative live Junkie lately and that's one of the pieces of advice Scott Robert Lim gave - to paraphrase - it's a lot easier to offer a sale than it is raise the cost when it's listed. If your trying to push to the next pricing tier sales are helpful because your referral base will be based on the lower prices. i'm in that stage with my wedding business, and yeah this season is hurting because I've had to turn down so many $1000 brides when I really want $3000 brides, so in the end I get $2000 brides (because of incentives).

Lastly here, and i hope you don't take this the wrong way, but your post here puts you into the amateur column! You are kind of what your complaining about in the eyes of pro's who are ahead of you. That $600 pro may be saying the same thing about you as you are saying about the $20 guy. that's not a dis, just putting it in perspective, that you are emerging and finding your place and you are in a saturated market ---- the best advice I have on that which is the path I am taking is find a way to make your work stand out. Brand yourself, make people want what you do which is as many say here more than just about the photography. Make people feel special, offer great customer service and find ways to make your images stand out. and don't get pissed about the lower end guys, they will always be there and more than not - you don't want that client anyways!

 

[AcutancePhotography]

I am trying to get my photography business running but I am encountering a problem I am sure we all have:

"Everyone's a photographer!"

Not to be overly cynical, but you are the "amateur who wants to be a pro" that the already established pros were bitching about last month. ;D

And so the cycle continues. ;D

Good luck with it. As I have posted many time, I think that being a professional photographer is a tough way to make a living and an easy way to kill a hobby.

Good luck, I hope you make it.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Can you answer, for me, one question?
"Why would I hire you instead of getting any of the other people doing the same thing?"

This is the key, IMO. I have three kids, and I have the gear necessary to take good portraits of them. Still, every year I take them to a local studio for Easter/Spring portraits. Compared to the studio, at home I have better lights and modifiers, a better camera, better lenses, a more comfortable setting, more time to take the pictures, more time to post-process the images, and I can get prints cheaper through Mpix.

So, why do I take them to a studio for Easter pics? Two words…LIVE BUNNIES.

 

[Orangutan]

Can you answer, for me, one question?
"Why would I hire you instead of getting any of the other people doing the same thing?"

This is the key, IMO. I have three kids, and I have the gear necessary to take good portraits of them. Still, every year I take them to a local studio for Easter/Spring portraits. Compared to the studio, at home I have better lights and modifiers, a better camera, better lenses, a more comfortable setting, more time to take the pictures, more time to post-process the images, and I can get prints cheaper through Mpix.

So, why do I take them to a studio for Easter pics? Two words…LIVE BUNNIES.

I'm surprised you weren't aware that LensRentals now stocks live bunnies.

 

[jdramirez]

Can you answer, for me, one question?
"Why would I hire you instead of getting any of the other people doing the same thing?"

This is the key, IMO. I have three kids, and I have the gear necessary to take good portraits of them. Still, every year I take them to a local studio for Easter/Spring portraits. Compared to the studio, at home I have better lights and modifiers, a better camera, better lenses, a more comfortable setting, more time to take the pictures, more time to post-process the images, and I can get prints cheaper through Mpix.

So, why do I take them to a studio for Easter pics? Two words…LIVE BUNNIES.

Are we talking about the bunny ranch... because I wouldn't take my kids there... though I'd happily spend Easter with some bunnies.

 

[jdramirez]

It isn't about the gear.... always... my kid will make goofy faces at me because she assumes my time isn't worth as much as a photographer's... then she gets in trouble and the day is ruined... So it can be worth having someone else tame the kid's photos.

 

[East Wind Photography]

This has been going on for years since the affordable development of the personal camera. It is nothing new that has come about since the digital revolution.

Only the fittest survive my friend and there is not much that can be done about it except to change your attitude about the matter. I agree with other posters here that its about people management and often word of mouth referrals.

Photography is not the only profession that suffers from this. Make your customers happy and they will boast to all of their friends about the wonderful job you did.

 

[drummstikk]

I was once gainfully employed in a dying industry -- book publishing. After several months of escalating mutual hatred between myself and my employer, they gave up trying to build a paper trail on me and offered me 6 months salary if I would just LEAVE. Having a recent track record of several years making between 10-15 grand a year on a dozen odd weekends without even really trying that hard, I took their kind offer went freelance in 2006. This, by my reckoning, was precisely one year before I and every other pro in the market was devoured by the beast that goes by many names: "Timmy's Mom." "Lisa's Dad." "Billy's uncle."

Yes, the youth sports photo market deserted me right when I needed it most. Photography is unique in this way as far as I know. Every week, people go out and buy a Rebel kit on Saturday, *maybe* read part of the manual while on the crapper on Sunday, and then start handing out business cards on Monday. Since these people have "day jobs" they have no concept of what the price of the services they plan to offer are worth ("Is $50.00 for a wedding too much?") and drive their local market down by working for hobby prices. Nobody invests in a set of tools and then starts doing auto repair or carpentry or plumbing for cheap or free. But this happens in photograph ALL THE TIME.

As much as this is a kick in the gut to people like me who have honed their craft for over three decades, I can't whine about it. I could hope for amateurs to respect the craft, learn something about the business they are pushing in on, and at least charge a fair price. And, while yer at it, let's have peace in the middle east and the *WORLD SERIES CHAMPION CHICAGO CUBS.*

If you still get the job asking a fair price, then congratulations, you've beaten me in the marketplace fair and square. But it you are giving your work away or charging hobby rates, you are hurting somebody, whether or not you even know who he or she may be.

The reality as I have found it to be in recent years is that photography skills are secondary (distantly) to marketing skills. Which is precisely why I get my butt kicked every year. I suck at marketing and always will. I don't have the personality for it. The thought of "developing my brand" makes me nauseous.

But I love the work and can't walk away. I make far too much money at photography to just leave on the table, but not enough to live on. So, I do my one-off jobs and service my contracts for part of my income, and clean toilets and mow grass for the rest and for insurance. That's my choice and I am not crying over it. Damn sure nobody else is.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Can you answer, for me, one question?
"Why would I hire you instead of getting any of the other people doing the same thing?"

This is the key, IMO. I have three kids, and I have the gear necessary to take good portraits of them. Still, every year I take them to a local studio for Easter/Spring portraits. Compared to the studio, at home I have better lights and modifiers, a better camera, better lenses, a more comfortable setting, more time to take the pictures, more time to post-process the images, and I can get prints cheaper through Mpix.

So, why do I take them to a studio for Easter pics? Two words…LIVE BUNNIES.

I'm loaded with live bunnies, we have two does and a buck, June is coming, and bunnies are popping out all over. I'm eating one as I surf CR right now.

 

[Janbo Makimbo]

I find your topic a bit offensive really... There are Pros and Pros... One mans Pro is another mans amateur!!

 

[jdramirez]

I was on prostituterumors.com the other week... and there were some prostitutes complaining about the same thing. Something about "just giving it away"... so photography isn't the only industry affected by an influx of amateurs.

 

[Tabor Warren Photography]

Hi Scott,

To preface: I booked 1 wedding in 2012, 8 in 2013, and now approaching 40 so far for 2014. I actually began as a 'faux'tographer with a T1i and kit lens, but I have upgraded along the way. Just last December, I left my doctoral program, my wife left her job as a CPA, and we both pursue wedding and portrait photography full time and have actually begun hiring employees to help with growth. It was difficult to get away from the amateurs, yes, but once out there is no turning back for us.

Do you have a website where your work is stored? Also, what type of work are you wanting to dominate the market for?

I would love to help pitch some ideas your way.

All my best,
-Tabor