Two Canon EOS R series bodies coming in 2019 [CR2]

Oct 26, 2013
1,015
170
#81
Can we stop with this, please? "You must be weak if you want smaller cameras" is puerile and "women are more likely to want mirrorless cameras because they're weak/have smaller hands" is outright sexist. Women are quite capable of handling and using cameras of any size just as well as men, and someone with smaller hands can use bigger cameras with no trouble. The size differences between cameras are exaggerated in these discussions anyway. You don't like these cameras, fine! Stop making crass and irrelevant insinuations about people who do.
Thank you!

And not to mention that the "R" is neither small or light. But people believe what they want to support their argument.
I owned the 6D and the EF 24-105 L = 1425 grams combined.
The new R with RF 24-105 L = 1360 grams.

R is slightly smaller and very slightly lighter. Probably not enough to even notice the difference.

Both mirrorless and DSLRs have different strengths and weaknesses. They do not compete with one another - they are just two slightly different types of cameras.
 

BillB

EOS Rebel T7i
May 11, 2017
825
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#83
A few people have brought up the issues of cost here. But once again a lot of unproven assumptions are being made. Do we know that EVFs cost less than the mirror/pentaprism? Do we know that mechanical parts fail more than electronic ones? Do we know mirrorless cameras cost less to produce overall than DSLRs? I've seen no evidence but a lot of assertions.
Anyway, at this point in the development of Canon mirrorless, covering front end development costs is a far bigger factor than any differences in per camera production costs and that will be true for quite a while.
 
Likes: Apfelmark

BeenThere

EOS Rebel T7i
Sep 4, 2012
739
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#87
The question for me - which I have asked many times on forums - is why do forum dwellers care if people switch brands, or which brand is the top seller? Doesn't everyone buy the camera (and system) that best suits their needs? Why would anyone care if Sony sells twice as many cameras as Canon - as long as Canon continues to do well enough to offer us new cameras and lenses?

People have different wants and needs - something many forum dwellers seem to be unable to recognize. And each brand has their own strengths and weaknesses, so every time someone says something like, "Canon can't match Sony..." it just shows their own personal bias and little or nothing about the different camera brands. For me, color is the most important factor. So I would never consider a Sony. For others, FPS or AF speed is crucial. Shooting mostly landscapes, those specs are totally of no consequence to me. Some shoot high-end 4K video, others, like me, are perfectly happy with HD. So some folks, if they can afford it, will change brands. Who cares?
Mine is better than yours syndrome. :cool:
 
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Likes: criscokkat
Sep 26, 2017
74
31
Madison, WI
#89
You forget no mirror blackout.
Not that I'll be able to afford a setup like this anytime soon, but this is the type of article that makes me drool about the future of mirrorless:

I am hoping for a Full Frame 7d like camera around 10fps with good autofocus in the next few years, when I am ready to make the step up with my next body purchase. The specs on the top end eventually do trickle down to the prosumer. The a7III has been mighty tempting to someone in my position.If some disaster struck my equipment (fire/flood/robbery/etc) and I had to start over again I'd be in the Sony camp.
 
Likes: navastronia
Jun 8, 2013
52
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#90
yeah :)
i guess canon thinks people are stupid enough to fall for FF no matter what.
looking at the features from the X-T3 ...
....
If Fuji would update their older, faster primes, I'd consider buying back into the system. (That's the only reason I left.)

Even then, I'd be stuck with Fuji's closed ecosystem of very expensive lenses...all the moreso when you toss in those wide apertures, which in FF are cheap and frequently not too much larger.
 
Jul 28, 2016
17
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AZ
#91
Can we stop with this, please? "You must be weak if you want smaller cameras" is puerile and "women are more likely to want mirrorless cameras because they're weak/have smaller hands" is outright sexist. Women are quite capable of handling and using cameras of any size just as well as men, and someone with smaller hands can use bigger cameras with no trouble. The size differences between cameras are exaggerated in these discussions anyway. You don't like these cameras, fine! Stop making crass and irrelevant insinuations about people who do.
1. Actually, it is 100% factually accurate that men have larger hands and stronger upper bodies than women. There are exceptions of course, and there is a reason an episode of Seinfeld featured a woman with "man hands". If your definition of "not sexist" means pretending men and women are the same, I can't help you. I can tell you that any claims of "ist" this or that are signs of a weak argument.

2. I did not use the phrase "You must be weak if...".

3. The Sony I looked at, an A7R model, was tiny. Period. The new Canon R is larger and thus makes more sense for use with larger lenses, but still does not offer the handling of Canon's 5D or 1D models when using L lenses. There is nothing crass or irrelevant in pointing out how the size of a tool impacts the use of that tool, and whether a subset of users of that tool may choose a less than optimum form factor due to their physical limitations.
 
Aug 31, 2018
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#92
1. Actually, it is 100% factually accurate that men have larger hands and stronger upper bodies than women. There are exceptions of course, and there is a reason an episode of Seinfeld featured a woman with "man hands". If your definition of "not sexist" means pretending men and women are the same, I can't help you. I can tell you that any claims of "ist" this or that are signs of a weak argument.

2. I did not use the phrase "You must be weak if...".

3. The Sony I looked at, an A7R model, was tiny. Period. The new Canon R is larger and thus makes more sense for use with larger lenses, but still does not offer the handling of Canon's 5D or 1D models when using L lenses. There is nothing crass or irrelevant in pointing out how the size of a tool impacts the use of that tool, and whether a subset of users of that tool may choose a less than optimum form factor due to their physical limitations.
NO, moving the 5DsR II to the gimmick/trend of mirrorless would NOT be ideal. As I said in the other thread, this would be a horrible idea, and would only benefit people with dainty hands and/or weak arms.
Bruh, read what you wrote. You came into this thread like a freight train - are you surprised that people are asking you to tone it down? Sure, on average, women have less upper body strength than men, but it's really not relevant to the subject, nor is telling people that mirrorless is a "gimmick," or that mirrorless only benefits people with "dainty hands." If you want people to take what you're saying seriously, consider writing more moderately. I think most of us are here to nerd out over this new speculation and less for the spicy posts ;)
 
Jul 28, 2016
17
11
AZ
#93
Why would an RF 5DS2 be any smaller than the mirror-slapper model?



No, it's about moving away from delicate, failure-prone and vibration-inducing mechanical components. That may have the advantage of allowing retail price or size to be reduced where that is relevant, but primarily it's about improving MTBF and reducing development, production and warranty costs.

What size is the EOS R compared to the current 5D models? The Sonys are even smaller. Do you expect a mirrorless 5D replacement to keep the same size? Based on the R, I doubt it. If the same size is kept, then my comments about size would not apply.

I've had at least 6 different Canon models over the past 15 years and have never had an issue with the shutter. Of course if I were using them for many years without upgrading or using them more frequently this could be an issue. Do you have data suggesting that the live view display is more reliable over time and with heavy use? Which is more costly to repair?

Has the mirror induced vibration been quantified with the 5DsR, for example? I do take a tripod with me frequently and I use the mirror lockup when I do (So no vibration problem there.), but I also shoot the 5DsR hand held and get very sharp shots. I would suggest that the mirror/no mirror vibration difference is more than overcome by other factors when hand holding, and when on a tripod it can be removed entirely. (Of course you can also use the mirror lockup when hand holding if you doubt this, and the 5DsR has several different delay settings up to 2 seconds.)
 
Jul 28, 2016
17
11
AZ
#94
Bruh, read what you wrote. You came into this thread like a freight train - are you surprised that people are asking you to tone it down? Sure, on average, women have less upper body strength than men, but it's really not relevant to the subject, nor is telling people that mirrorless is a "gimmick," or that mirrorless only benefits people with "dainty hands." If you want people to take what you're saying seriously, consider writing more moderately. I think most of us are here to nerd out over this new speculation and less for the spicy posts ;)
Actually, I'm not surprised at all. Canon Rumors threads can be contentious, and I'm fully aware of my very blunt communication style. I'm merely refuting the over the top reply.

It's interesting that "scyrene", who took issue with my other comments, points out that the assumed cost and reliability benefits of mirrorless are unproven. Here I agree with him/her. If those benefits are not there, all the more reason to label mirrorless as a gimmick.
 
Sep 22, 2016
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#95
As I said in the other thread, this would be a horrible idea, and would only benefit people with dainty hands and/or weak arms.
Phones today are too small and people go around dropping them all the time because they're too hard to hold onto. A good old Motorola DynaTac 8000X would be much better (like the very manly Gordon Gekko used in "Wall Street"). But it's just not what people want. Seems like cameras are following the same human desire for smaller and lighter.
 

tron

EOS 5DS R
Nov 8, 2011
3,779
148
#96
Phones today are too small and people go around dropping them all the time because they're too hard to hold onto. A good old Motorola DynaTac 8000X would be much better (like the very manly Gordon Gekko used in "Wall Street"). But it's just not what people want. Seems like cameras are following the same human desire for smaller and lighter.
Actually the phones are bigger to much bigger than what they used to be in the previous decade. And way heavier! Two of my phones were the Nokia 6100 and the Nokia E52. Small and very light. Maybe the mentioning of the phones was not a good example.
 
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tron

EOS 5DS R
Nov 8, 2011
3,779
148
#97
Closer to the topic: I use the silent mode when using handheld the EOS 5DsR. I do not know if it helps or not but I have not observed mirror issues. There were cases where I had put the speed to 1/160 when using the 400mm DO IS II lens to shoot a still bird in a dark area and the result was very sharp. Of course IS helped a lot but if there were mirror shake issues the photo would be ruined.
 
Jul 31, 2018
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#98
i really hope Canon drops a mirrorfree 6D-class entry-level "EOS R-ebel" model as "first ever digital camera with FF sensor priced at USD/€ 999 ... and nukes Sony and Nikon with it. plus a compact, decent IQ, inexpensive RF 24-85/3.5-5.6 IS STM as kit zoom.

they'd sell a lot of them.

to save cost and achieve the desired marketing differentiation (nerfing), they could make it with useless 4k video, no mics, no headphone jack, no IBIS, only single card slot. ooops, stop - that would be too close to EOS R specs. nerf some more! :p:D
 

RGF

How you relate to the issue, is the issue.
Jul 13, 2012
2,778
25
Wonder what Canon is planning for the high-end. Go with 1Dx M3 and R version 2019? Rumor is Nikon will introduce D6 next year. Could mirrorless versions be far behind?

Also for the 7DM3 and 5DS - will Canon go route (lots of extra work) or go mirrorless only?