Two more EOS R bodies are coming in 2021 [CR2]

BillB

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I don’t see R6 and global shutter in the same thread. Although the R6 is slated to be a low mp a global shutter doesn’t fit in with the suggestion of the R6 being a comparative budget model as there is no way around the added cost and complexity needed on the sensor for a global shutter, and if it is a 20mp camera it makes little sense to have not put that in the 1DX III, that would have been a feature that would have sold a lot of 1D series cameras.
It wouldn’t be the first time that Canon introduced new technology well down the food chain.
 

Pixel

EOS 80D
Sep 6, 2011
126
40
We've all been speculating (including myself) that the pro body would be called the R1. Now that I sit and think about it, wouldn't the correct name be EOS 1R?
 

Michael Clark

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I still think the R1 is a no-brainer and now with the Olympics pushed back, that makes 2021 a perfect launch year for a pro mirrorless.

Now that the Olympics have been delayed until Summer 2021, I expect Canon will introduce their R1 flagship body sufficiently before those Olympics so that they can claim FF mirrorless and DSLR bragging rights throughout the Olympics. If they don't do this, they will miss a golden opportunity to do so.
That's making a big assumption that "pushed back" doesn't morph into "cancelled altogether." There are already rumblings that 2021 might not happen.

If that were the case, putting out two new sports focused bodies during an 18 month time period when top level sports aren't even being contested at anything approaching normal levels of frequency could be disastrous for Canon.
 
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Michael Clark

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I'm cool with the R1 landing in 2021, or even later, but Canon would be wise to think about how long they really want to cede the pro mirrorless world to other brands.
What, exactly, does the α9ii offer that the EOS R5 doesn't at least match? Based on the miniscule improvement between the α9 and α9ii, what will the α9iii include to place it ahead of the R5?

Canon doesn't have to have an R1 to challenge the α9 series. It appears the R5 is going to do that quite well, thank you.
 
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Michael Clark

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And for me personally I almost never shoot without off camera strobes even outdoors so DR isn’t an issue for the way I work anyway.
Which makes the camera you need totally irrelevant to the camera spec fanboys.
 
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Michael Clark

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I hope I'm wrong, but with those specs it makes sense. Also, I don't think those prices will last long, they will be the early adopter fee; but for all others you'd have to be willing to wait at least 6 months to benefit from a price drop. And actually, the price for entry will be far higher if you want to go with native R mount lenses. Otherwise you are stuck with EF lenses and the adapter.

Another pricing clue, although I'm not sure how accurate it is; I've seen the lensrentals rental price compared to the 1DXIII's rental price several times now, below is a quote from fstoppers:

Pricing remains a mystery. Major retailers say “Coming Soon.” Interestingly, however, Lens Rentals has it listed at $271 per week (hat tip to docsmith). Given that the 1D X Mark III is $347 per week, a little bit of math puts the R5’s retail price a shade over $5,000. So, $4,999?

I do not think the Sony comparison however is entirely fair, I've picked up a couple of Sony's in the retail stores just to hold them and to try to see what all the fuss is about....the build quality, ergonomics, menu system, color science, etc. etc. is night and day vs. a Canon. So yes..Ford makes tons of cars that go from point a to point b, but that does not mean that BMW needs to compete with them on price.
On the other hand, the R and RP currently rent from lensrentals.com at $88 and $74 per week, respectively. That would imply that, compared to $347/wk for a $6,499 1D X Mark III, they should be priced at $1,648 and $1,386, respectively. Yet current market price for the R and RP are $1,800 and $999. The R rents for only 19% more than the RP, yet costs 80% more to buy. There are more market forces at work driving lensrentals rates for certain items than how much the initial purchase cost is. The EOS Ra, for instance, rents for $145/wk! Does it cost 65% more than an EOS R? No, it's only 39% more expensive to buy at $2,499. Based on their current difference in purchase price, the Ra should rent for $122/wk compared to the R at $88/wk.
 

Michael Clark

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Roger responded to this in a dpreview thread, he stated it was essentially a placeholder.
Yeah, but you can't do the same thing when comparing currently offered products, either. Please see my comment directly above this one. The comparative purchase prices of the Ra, R, and RP do not line up very well with the comparative weekly rental prices of the same three items at lensrentals.com.
 

Michael Clark

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there's little hardware in the R5 that is solely dedicated to stills. as we took great pains to break down in our article about it.
I think the entire point is that there are a lot of other factors beyond cost of components that go into the sale price. Market forces can very often be a much greater influence than the costs of R&D, production, and distribution. Sure, they've got to sell things for more than it costs them to make them, but the question of "how much more" is often determined by external factors.
 

Michael Clark

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I tend to agree with your argument, alhough in Canon's case going if we go by history I dont see that happening. I hope I am wrong, I wouldnt be buying their flagship 1d mirrorless anyway but it would honestly surprise me if they released a 1dx level camera in the mirrorless line so soon after the 1dxiii. My guess is they release it 2 years from now but I could be wrong. The Sony A9 line may change that. But Canon did mention that they believe the OVF is still king when it comes to sports photography as EVF has the lag. That's their words not mine. Like I mentioned, I dont see it any time soon.
Canon doesn't need an R1 line to challenge the Sony α9 series. The R5 is going to do that rather well.
 

canonnews

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It wouldn’t be the first time that Canon introduced new technology well down the food chain.
global shutter needs a stacked sensor to pull it off well. the technology that canon has revolving around current global shutters in production are video centric only. taking two subsequent frames does not work for stills but does for video.
 
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canonnews

EOS 7D MK II
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I think the entire point is that there are a lot of other factors beyond cost of components that go into the sale price. Market forces can very often be a much greater influence than the costs of R&D, production, and distribution. Sure, they've got to sell things for more than it costs them to make them, but the question of "how much more" is often determined by external factors.
hahaha .. oh man that was a bad typo. I mean dedicated to "VIDEO"
 
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Michael Clark

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We really

At this point, we don‘t know much about the AF and EVF of the R5, and we don’t know how close Canon is to having the AF and EVF ready for the F1. So technical Issues may be a factor in the timing of the R1.
If the 1D X Mark III in Live View is any indication, that part is ready now.
 
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Michael Clark

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a9 being positioned as an action / sports camera competing with Canon 1 series cameras. Not 5 series. its all good though..
That may be where Sony wants to position it, but what does the α9ii offer that the R5 doesn't favorably compare in terms of performance, ergonomics, durability, etc?
 

SecureGSM

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That may be where Sony wants to position it, but what does the α9ii offer that the R5 doesn't favorably compare in terms of performance, ergonomics, durability, etc?
Sony A9:

1. Confirmed nearly lag free EVF
2. Confirmed blackout free EVF
3. Confirmed excellent continuous AF tracking.

R5: unconfirmed.
According to Canon, R5 is not being positioned as a sport / action cam. That’s likely a hint.
 
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Michael Clark

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Sony A9:

1. Confirmed nearly lag free EVF
2. Confirmed blackout free EVF
3. Confirmed excellent continuous AF tracking.

R5: unconfirmed.
According to Canon, R5 is not being positioned as a sport / action cam. That’s likely a hint.
On the other hand,

We do know that the current α9ii is limited to 10 fps with mechanical shutter (and that the rolling shutter effect is fairly noticeable at 20 fps electronic shutter). The R5 is advertised to be capable of 12 fps mechanical and 20 fps electronic shutter. Rolling shutter effect remains to be seen, but with a sensor readout speed capable of 4K 120fps it should be no more of an issue than with the current Sony that maxes out at 4K 30/FHD 120.

We do know that current 5-Series bodys are at least as durable and weather resistant as the α9 bodies. And that's being generous to the Sony bodies.

Based on the Live View performance of the EOS 1D X Mark III, we know that Canon has demonstrated the ability to address all three of the points you raise. It remains to be seen how much of that will wind up in the R5, but with the current state of the ILC market, it would be rather foolish of Canon to not come at least fairly close with the R5 to the standards they have demonstrated there.
 

SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
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On the other hand,

We do know that the current α9ii is limited to 10 fps with mechanical shutter (and that the rolling shutter effect is fairly noticeable at 20 fps electronic shutter). The R5 is advertised to be capable of 12 fps mechanical and 20 fps electronic shutter. Rolling shutter effect remains to be seen, but with a sensor readout speed capable of 4K 120fps it should be no more of an issue than with the current Sony that maxes out at 4K 30/FHD 120.

We do know that current 5-Series bodys are at least as durable and weather resistant as the α9 bodies. And that's being generous to the Sony bodies.

Based on the Live View performance of the EOS 1D X Mark III, we know that Canon has demonstrated the ability to address all three of the points you raise. It remains to be seen how much of that will wind up in the R5, but with the current state of the ILC market, it would be rather foolish of Canon to not come at least fairly close with the R5 to the standards they have demonstrated there.
Michael, based on assumptions only. Let’s see what R5 EVF performance really is for a fast action. Need some solid facts that are none at this stage.
According to photorumors, R5 to be anounced on the May 16, 2020. Let’s wait and see.
 

Michael Clark

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Michael, based on assumptions only. Let’s see what R5 EVF performance really is for a fast action. Need some solid facts that are none at this stage.
According to photorumors, R5 to be anounced on the May 16, 2020. Let’s wait and see.
8K 30 and 4K 120 are more than assumptions. They've been announced by Canon. There's a minimum technical capability in terms of sensor readout speed needed to support such video frame rates which directly translates to EVF performance.