Two new EOS M cameras rumoured to be coming in 2020 [CR1]

IcyBergs

I have a Sony...TV
May 31, 2016
15
24
It depends on what you mean by serious. If serious means making their M (for mobile) system into something tor folks who carry around a steamer trunk full of lenses, then I agree. If serious means selling a lot of cameras to folks who want to take a really good camera along that is small enough to carry most anywhere, then, I would say they are quite serious. Most people only carry one lens when traveling and at the most two (a zoom and something fast). For me, that would be the 18-150 and either the 22 or 32. I might well eschew the prime (or take the tiny 22)and take the 11-22 instead because it is such a great lens and so often useful. BTW, I have almost all the M lenses and do use them when nearby. Also have the Viltrox speed booster and note that it works quite well with both the nifty 50 and the 40mm pancake and those are both very portable combinations.
Seems like we're of the same opinion. The post you quoted was in response to the opinion that Canon should do more with the M lens selection, and in so doing would signify that they were "serious" - I don't believe that is their intentions at all. The M line of products serves a very specific purpose which you effectively stated...being mobile.

There will be compromises for a system that is focused on maintaining portability as one of it's primary selling points. If someone is looking for 2.8 zooms and fast long primes than you might as well adapt an EF lens because a hypothetical M equivalent would be heavy and unbalanced anyway.

I'm looking forward to owning an M, I've gotten enough of an opportunity to tinker around with them that I think it'll be a great addition. Hopefully I'll find a nice deal on one here soon with all the holiday sales coming up.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
1,140
570
Particularly the 7D. I skipped the 7D mark II and am looking to replace my well worn 7D with something more modern.
The 7D Mark II was, at least for what I do, a significant upgrade over the original 7D. Since I shoot a lot of sports/action under flickering lighting, the flicker reduction feature was worth the price of the body for me. Having the shutter release at the peak in the lights' AC cycle meant I could shoot 1/2-2/3 stops faster and get brighter, more color consistent pictures in the same facilities as before with the 7D!

The AF system is also more consistent from shot to shot. The 19-pt AF system in the 7D was nicely configurable, but didn't perform very consistently from shot-to-shot. Almost half the frames in a ten shot burst might be slightly front-focused and almost half of them slightly back-focused with only a couple of frames dead on. The 7D mark II got an AF system that was on par with the 1D X and 5D Mark III.

My images from the 7D Mark II at ISO 3200 are also much cleaner than ISO 3200 images from my 7d, though I am beginning to suspect the sensor in my 7D may have been less than optimal for whatever reason.
 

canonmike

EOS 80D
Jan 5, 2013
119
55
The whole idea of M is small bodies. Small bodies should have small lenses. If I am going to use L glass its going to be on FF to get the best results. Thats just me.
I have to, at least somewhat concur with your small body should have small lens comment. I guess that's why the 22mm M mount lens on any of the M bodies is such a popular combo. Such a small form factor in a small pkg that still takes reasonably good photos, while offering extreme, easy portability. A couple of yrs ago, I decided to invest in Sigma's 18-35 F1.8 Art lens for my M50. It's a mostly capable lens, when it works properly but is a huge and heavy lens, especially knowing you have to add the M adapter, somewhat negating the "compact" advantage of the M series body.
 

OneSnark

Canon Fanboy
Aug 20, 2019
36
14
I have to, at least somewhat concur with your small body should have small lens comment. I guess that's why the 22mm M mount lens on any of the M bodies is such a popular combo. Such a small form factor in a small pkg that still takes reasonably good photos, while offering extreme, easy portability. A couple of yrs ago, I decided to invest in Sigma's 18-35 F1.8 Art lens for my M50. It's a mostly capable lens, when it works properly but is a huge and heavy lens, especially knowing you have to add the M adapter, somewhat negating the "compact" advantage of the M series body.
TRUTH.

I do see the attractiveness of the "M" series. . . but the lens selection is definitely a sticking point with me.
Sure, one can stick EF lenses on these puppies. . .but that sort of defeats the point of these cameras? Sure, using EF for special occasions where you can bring the "sack of lenses" is fine. . . but for day-to-day use you want small and native.

While I don't insist on F2.8 lenses. . . . . . .the "M" zooms are awfully slow. A decent 24-100 F4 for day to day use would be ideal for me.
Fast "M" primes are nice. . .but as a "travel rig", where sneaker zoom doesn't always work, zooms are critical.

- - - - -
to add to what some others have said; one cannot help but notice the similarity of the M6-II and 90D. That is smart development; the same tech being placed in two product lines. Funny how the 90D is universally panned because it is a mirror-slapping dinosaur.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
1,140
570
TRUTH.

I do see the attractiveness of the "M" series. . . but the lens selection is definitely a sticking point with me.
Sure, one can stick EF lenses on these puppies. . .but that sort of defeats the point of these cameras? Sure, using EF for special occasions where you can bring the "sack of lenses" is fine. . . but for day-to-day use you want small and native.

While I don't insist on F2.8 lenses. . . . . . .the "M" zooms are awfully slow. A decent 24-100 F4 for day to day use would be ideal for me.
Fast "M" primes are nice. . .but as a "travel rig", where sneaker zoom doesn't always work, zooms are critical.

- - - - -
to add to what some others have said; one cannot help but notice the similarity of the M6-II and 90D. That is smart development; the same tech being placed in two product lines. Funny how the 90D is universally panned because it is a mirror-slapping dinosaur.
The 90D will be just like the 6D Mark II and 5D Mark III/IV: Panned by those who judge them strictly on the basis of their spec sheet while loved by those who actually use them to produce outstanding images.
 

Joules

EOS RP
Jul 16, 2017
377
302
Hamburg, Germany
The 90D will be just like the 6D Mark II and 5D Mark III/IV: Panned by those who judge them strictly on the basis of their spec sheet while loved by those who actually use them to produce outstanding images.
Even strictly by the spec sheet, the 90D is a huge upgrade over its predecessor. And unlike with the 6D II, I don't think it has anything that you could point at and cry "crippled!!1".

With the direction these most recent Canon bodies took, it simply looks like the "Doomed!" folks will be running out of points to critizise soon.
 
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OneSnark

Canon Fanboy
Aug 20, 2019
36
14
The 90D will be just like the 6D Mark II and 5D Mark III/IV: Panned by those who judge them strictly on the basis of their spec sheet while loved by those who actually use them to produce outstanding images.
Even strictly by the spec sheet, the 90D is a huge upgrade over its predecessor. And unlike with the 6D II, I don't think it has anything that you could point at and cry "crippled!!1".

With the direction these most recent Canon bodies took, it simply looks like the "Doomed!" folks will be running out of points to critizise soon.
I think most of the hate for the 90D is simply because it has an optical viewfinder instead of a mirrorless viewfinder.
Doesn't fit the mirrorless-is-the-future narrative.

- - - - - - -

My understanding is that the 90D in live-view mode is essentially a MK6-II with a built in EF adapter mount?
 
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slclick

PINHOLE
Dec 17, 2013
3,203
723
I think most of the hate for the 90D is simply because it has an optical viewfinder instead of a mirrorless viewfinder.
Doesn't fit the mirrorless-is-the-future narrative.

- - - - - - -

My understanding is that the 90D in live-view mode is essentially a MK6-II with a built in EF adapter mount?
There is only hate if you read divisive websites such as DPR along with Tony and other YouTube influencers. It is not universally panned, that just sounds great in a CR forum post. Such BS. Michael hit the nail on the head.
 
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Dragon

EOS M50
May 29, 2019
46
31
Seems like we're of the same opinion. The post you quoted was in response to the opinion that Canon should do more with the M lens selection, and in so doing would signify that they were "serious" - I don't believe that is their intentions at all. The M line of products serves a very specific purpose which you effectively stated...being mobile.

There will be compromises for a system that is focused on maintaining portability as one of it's primary selling points. If someone is looking for 2.8 zooms and fast long primes than you might as well adapt an EF lens because a hypothetical M equivalent would be heavy and unbalanced anyway.

I'm looking forward to owning an M, I've gotten enough of an opportunity to tinker around with them that I think it'll be a great addition. Hopefully I'll find a nice deal on one here soon with all the holiday sales coming up.
Check the refurbished section at the Canon store. I got a great deal on an M5 there about 6 months ago. If you want a deal on an m6 II, you may have to wait a few months, but M6 mk I is very cheap right now in the refurb section. I have never gotten anything from Canon Refurb that wasn't essentially new, so their deals are real.
 

koenkooi

EOS 7D MK II
Feb 25, 2015
521
307
I think most of the hate for the 90D is simply because it has an optical viewfinder instead of a mirrorless viewfinder.
Doesn't fit the mirrorless-is-the-future narrative.

- - - - - - -

My understanding is that the 90D in live-view mode is essentially a MK6-II with a built in EF adapter mount?
As I understand it, the 90D has an extra 4k mode where it crops 1.2x and then downsamples. The regular 4k mode that it shares with the M6II does column skipping and then upscales the 3.5k image to 4k. It is said they M6II doesn't have it because it can't dissipate the heat generated by it, while the 90D can.

I don't have a 90D, so I can't confirm the above, so grain of salt, etc.
 

Dragon

EOS M50
May 29, 2019
46
31
As I understand it, the 90D has an extra 4k mode where it crops 1.2x and then downsamples. The regular 4k mode that it shares with the M6II does column skipping and then upscales the 3.5k image to 4k. It is said they M6II doesn't have it because it can't dissipate the heat generated by it, while the 90D can.

I don't have a 90D, so I can't confirm the above, so grain of salt, etc.
I do have a 90D and your understanding is correct. The 4k Crop mode is quite good. Very sharp and very little aliasing. The other huge improvement over previous models is the 1080 quality is very good. It drops just a bit a 60P, but sill very sharp. I suspect the M6 II battery wasn't up to the 6k-4k down conversion. We may see that feature in a future M5 II with the next generation of Digic that is slated to debut on the 1DX III. Hard to tell if the Digic is a custom IC or just a customized FPGA (probably the latter), but they do move forward with process nodes and thus use less power to do more as time goes by. I would like to see one feature return from the 70D. It has a video mode that just scans the center 1080x1920 area for about a 3x zoom. The mode is a bit crippled with no AF, but still useful at times. A center 4k scan on the M6 II and 90D would produce good quality (with a sharp lens) and offer another level of "digital zoom". It is a feature that could be added with a firmware upgrade.
 
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IcyBergs

I have a Sony...TV
May 31, 2016
15
24
Check the refurbished section at the Canon store. I got a great deal on an M5 there about 6 months ago. If you want a deal on an m6 II, you may have to wait a few months, but M6 mk I is very cheap right now in the refurb section. I have never gotten anything from Canon Refurb that wasn't essentially new, so their deals are real.
I'm actually targeting the M50, M6ii will be hard to find a deal on, and its a bit overkill for my intended use - also no EVF. Versus the M5 I lose a couple of dials, but I gain the digic 8, full flip screen, and should be able to score a good deal on one. I'll keep my eye on the canon refurbs...thanks.
 

Rocky

EOS 6D MK II
Jul 30, 2010
918
32
I'm actually targeting the M50, M6ii will be hard to find a deal on, and its a bit overkill for my intended use - also no EVF. Versus the M5 I lose a couple of dials, but I gain the digic 8, full flip screen, and should be able to score a good deal on one. I'll keep my eye on the canon refurbs...thanks.
Canon is selling it for $599 now, with 15-45 lens. It is a perfect walk around kit
 
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SteveC

M50 & T6i
Sep 3, 2019
385
245
TRUTH.

I do see the attractiveness of the "M" series. . . but the lens selection is definitely a sticking point with me.
Sure, one can stick EF lenses on these puppies. . .but that sort of defeats the point of these cameras? Sure, using EF for special occasions where you can bring the "sack of lenses" is fine. . . but for day-to-day use you want small and native.

While I don't insist on F2.8 lenses. . . . . . .the "M" zooms are awfully slow. A decent 24-100 F4 for day to day use would be ideal for me.
Fast "M" primes are nice. . .but as a "travel rig", where sneaker zoom doesn't always work, zooms are critical.

- - - - -
to add to what some others have said; one cannot help but notice the similarity of the M6-II and 90D. That is smart development; the same tech being placed in two product lines. Funny how the 90D is universally panned because it is a mirror-slapping dinosaur.
I think it would be nice to have options--a slightly fatter and/or longer M lens, to get a faster zoom wouldn't invalidate the portability of what's already out there. However, it appears Canon marketing won't cross that line for whatever reason.

Where Canon will not do, third parties will. (The slightly fatter Tamron 18-200 iii obviates for me the "need" for the 18-150.)

The M6-II is such a huge leap over prior cameras that it's simply untrue right now to argue that THE reason to get one is the small size and portability. Hence the people who want the feature set of the M6-II AND some higher-end lenses. Well, we at least have access to all of EF and EF-S via an adapter, though those are a bit of a pain to do a lens change on. (You are expected to remove the lens PLUS ADAPTER from the camera, then move the adapter to the new lens, then put the new lens, plus adapter, onto the camera body, turning a two step process into a four step process unless you own multiple adapters.)
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
1,140
570
I think most of the hate for the 90D is simply because it has an optical viewfinder instead of a mirrorless viewfinder.
Doesn't fit the mirrorless-is-the-future narrative.

- - - - - - -

My understanding is that the 90D in live-view mode is essentially a MK6-II with a built in EF adapter mount?
From my perspective (which may not be what "most" folks' is), the "hate" for the 90D is simply because they couldn't give it a 7D Mark II level AF system and build quality and call it the 7D Mark III, even if it caused the price to be $300-400 higher.

I'd gladly give $300-400 more for a body with the same sensor and should last me twice as long as a 90D.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
1,140
570
Even strictly by the spec sheet, the 90D is a huge upgrade over its predecessor. And unlike with the 6D II, I don't think it has anything that you could point at and cry "crippled!!1".

With the direction these most recent Canon bodies took, it simply looks like the "Doomed!" folks will be running out of points to critizise soon.
Some would say a 120,000 shutter rating is "crippled" when compared to the 7D Mark II and Nikon D500 that are rated at 200,000. I know one guy (who shoots far more frames than I do at some of the same sporting events, and I sometimes exceed 2,000) who has worn out 3 shutters on 7D mark IIs. Based on the law of averages, those four 7D Mark II bodies (he's now working on wearing out his fourth - he doesn't even bother to get a quote on replacing the shutter instead of the entire body) would be the equivalent of 6-7 90D bodies.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,969
1,181
119
My mother-in-law was asking about cameras the other day, she enjoys taking pictures (not video), most frequently with her phone as she considers her Rebel too big to take most of the time.

I showed her this unremarkable image from an evening at Disney and she was sold. There is no comparison to phone images for occasions like this, the iso, DR and AF performance are in a different league.

Screen Shot 2019-11-27 at 00.06.14.png
 

Daner

EOS M50
Aug 15, 2017
35
23
Stockholm
Understanding that Canon has said that there will be no EOS M5 Mk II, it seems to me that "parts bin engineering" could make another approach possible. They could put the sensor and lens mount from the M6 Mk II in an EOS R body.

Pros as compared to EOS M6 Mk II: Built-in EVF. Better battery life and compatibility with a wide range of higher-end models. Better handling for larger hands and larger EF-S and EF lenses. More versatile flippy screen instead of just a tilty one. Compatibility with EOS R accessories (battery grip, etc.). Access to the hot shoe not limited by use of EVF.

Cons as compared to EOS M6 Mk II: Larger. Heavier. More expensive.

Differences as compared to EOS R: Slightly better resolution. Considerably higher fps. Native access to EF-M lenses. Adapted access (with full resolution) to EF-S lenses. Differently adapted access to EF lenses. No access to RF lenses.

Of course, if they really want to shake things up (or rather, reduce the amount of shaking), they could use the extra space from the smaller sensor to include IBIS. That is not likely to happen until IBIS becomes available at the high end (1D series and some upcoming R model), but at that point there would be nothing from a technical or marketing perspective that would make it impossible.
 
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