Unreleased Canon Cinema EOS camera used for 8K capture at WWDC

TAF

EOS RP
Feb 26, 2012
344
35
So, Canon's 8K camera needs a robotic arm to hold it? And I thought the 1DX was heavy...
 
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HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
457
49
Well than I'm jealous. Can you share it?
"The Vendor" will share it soon enough .... To put it mildly, I'm NOT using the Red Monstro's or Canon C700 FF's anymore on ANY of my video OR stills shoots! No need when you have THIS MUCH TRUE MEDIUM FORMAT STILLS AND VIDEO IMAGING POWER in such a small and relatively inexpensive package! Quality-wise it BLOWS THEM BOTH AWAY !!! No Comparison! PERIOD !!!!

P.S. a set of 2/3rds inch (and larger) image sensor Super-Smartphones and Tablets is coming from the "The Same Vendor" !!!

That will shake up the low-end MILC camera industry! I've seen the drawings and specs on those and the imaging and computational power of BOTH the Phones and Tablets is AMAZING !!! You LITERALLY can have a stills/video imaging supercomputer in your pocket or carry bag!

.
 

Policar

EOS 7D MK II
Dec 20, 2010
522
3
And getting BACK to the Canon 8K, it definitely in a C300 Mk2/3 body style so i suspect it was a matter of adding silent but ACTIVE cooling, faster DIGIC processors and decent SDI connections to get UHD 8K (i.e. 7680 by 4320 pixels at Broadcast TV 16:9 aspect ratio) video using an APS-C (i.e. Super35) 60 fps 4:2:2 sensor BUT the upcoming Canon Cinema EOS C700 upgrade will have a Full Frame DCI 8K (8192 by 4320 at Hollywood Cinema 1.89:1 aspect ratio) 4:4:4 sensor!

Unfortunately for Canon, that will NOT be able to compete with a soon-to-be-released 56 mm x 42 mm 4:3 8K (8192 x 6144 px) Medium Format Global Shutter sensor camera that can do 60 fps at up to 4:4:4 AND up to16 bits per colour channel RAW and Compressed Video AND Stills imaging! It will be TOO LITTLE TOO LATE !!!

Pity! Canon was a good company with good lenses!

Now, Canon about to be obliterated by a 2/3rds inch image sensor super-smartphone system on the low-end camera lines and completely destroyed on the high end by a much cheaper, higher image quality MF combined Video/Stills system!

If you don't give customers what they want and SOMEONE ELSE DOES !!! Guess what happens to your marketshare?
.
I'm confused. The C300 Mk II already has active cooling, and the fans aren't silent. Do you mean that they're using another kind of active cooling on the Mk III different from the fans on the Mk II? Where did you get this information?

Also, it's my understanding that sensors don't have inherent chroma subsampling specifications, that's a product of the codec. Do you mean that it's a bayer sensor (similar effective color depth to 4:2:2 from what I understand?) in the C300 Mk III and a Foveon-style sensor in the C700? That would be rather shocking given how bad Foveon sensors are with low light, how much more data they generate when compared with oversampling for a similar result, and how poor the color accuracy is. I like the Sigma DP2's image a lot (though neither under tungsten nor under heavy shade–only right at 5600K), and it is a lot sharper per-pixel than any cinema camera. But a cinema camera is literally the last place I'd expect Canon to introduce a Foveon-style sensor, so I assume you mean something else by 4:4:4, but I can't understand what. Or is it Foveon-style but different in some way?

Very interesting information regardless, especially about the 645 camera. I understand if you don't want to further break NDA but I am really curious about it and about the new style of cooling and new sensor. I just bought a C200 but would consider selling it (while it still has value) and my stills camera alike if I could shoot on 645. I almost bought an old 645 Sinar set up on craigslist last month but couldn't afford a back. I'm starting to feel mighty foolish, but my loss is others' gain at least.
 
Last edited:

HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
457
49
I'm confused. The C300 Mk II already has active cooling, and the fans aren't silent. Do you mean that they're using another kind of active cooling on the Mk III different from the fans on the Mk II? Where did you get this information?

Also, it's my understanding that sensors don't have inherent chroma subsampling specifications, that's a product of the codec. Do you mean that it's a bayer sensor (similar effective color depth to 4:2:2 from what I understand?) in the C300 Mk III and a Foveon-style sensor in the C700? That would be rather shocking given how bad Foveon sensors are with low light, how much more data they generate when compared with oversampling for a similar result, and how poor the color accuracy is. I like the Sigma DP2's image a lot (though neither under tungsten nor under heavy shade–only right at 5600K), and it is a lot sharper per-pixel than any cinema camera. But a cinema camera is literally the last place I'd expect Canon to introduce a Foveon-style sensor, so I assume you mean something else by 4:4:4, but I can't understand what. Or is it Foveon-style but different in some way?

Very interesting information regardless, especially about the 645 camera. I understand if you don't want to further break NDA but I am really curious about it and about the new style of cooling and new sensor. I just bought a C200 but would consider selling it (while it still has value) and my stills camera alike if I could shoot on 645. I almost bought an old 645 Sinar set up on craigslist last month but couldn't afford a back. I'm starting to feel mighty foolish, but my loss is others' gain at least.

===

From what I understand from my European source, is that the fans are actually larger and lower speed so they are basically nearly silent and are managed literally second-by-second by onboard software similar to how CPU and GPU fans work on desktop computers with their advanced heat management and variable speed fans. There are also heatsinks which have a larger surface area to dissipate heat into a much more highly-engineered convection pattern that is much more efficient than the C300 mk2. Canon learned well from the issues present on the very noisy fan debacle on the old C500 4K cameras!

The C300 mk2 is actually a VERY well engineered camera and in my opinion not that bad at all for operating noise!
BUT when you have a NEW 8K camera that is moving FOUR TIMES the amount of digital data throughout a busy electronics highway, the heat removal business becomes VERY CHALLENGING INDEED !!! Again, they learned well and took their time to model and analyze CPU/DSP/IMAGE SENSOR thermodynamics very extensively!

---

Canon has LONG had 8K and more sensor resolution in APS-H sensor sizes and in APS-C mostly for industrial optics.
Their BIGGEST sensor is a 440 Megapixel monster used in Satellites and Drones (I've seen that one personally at an aerospace industry conference!)

This is NOT NEW technology for Canon, so I am 99.99% percent sure it's the same APS-C Bayer sensor tech running at video-centric 4:2:2 10-bits per colour channel (i.e. 30 bit YCbCr/RGB pixels) with PROBABLY an upgradable Sony Venice-like PAID BIOS upgrade that will unlock 4:4:4 chroma sampling at up to 14 bits per colour channel. I am QUITE sure the Analog-to-Digital Converter chips and DSP (Digital Signal Processing) circuits are 14-bits or MAYBE a full 16-bits wide with a 2-bit overhead used for error diffusion and round-down-to-14-bits purposes! It means the chroma sampling will be USER-SELECTABLE 10-bit, 12-bit and 14-bits per channel at EITHER 4:2:2 Interframe compressed or 4:4:4 fully uncompressed or 2:1 or 3:1 RAW container files. If they put ONLY 8-bit 4:2:0 chroma sampling at 60 fps 8K I would be UTTERLY SURPRISED and VERY DISAPPOINTED !!!

I have a 16-bits per colour channel DCI 8K 60 FPS 4:4:4 Compressed and RAW output MF camera on my desk NOW! If Canon only does 8-bit 4:2:0 8K then Canon is DEAD IN THE WATER !!!

There is NO WAY Canon is putting a Foveon-style Stacked RGB sensor in this new 8K Camera! -- Maybe in the future in OTHER cameras using their own stacked YCbCr/RGB patented sensors!

BUT.....from what I HAVE HEARD on the FINANCIAL ANALYST grapevine, is that it is SONY that wants to BUY all of SIGMA not just for their Foveon image sensor technology but also pretty much all their Stills and Cinema Lens Technology! This means Canon WILL NOT be getting access to Sigma Foveon technology!

So by 4:4:4, I mean that this NEW 8K Canon Camera is PROBABLY coming with up to 14-bits per channel 4:4:4 RAW chroma sampling for high end video. In terms of frame rate, it will DEFINITELY output 60 fps at 4K resolution and probably 30 fps 8K resolution.

---

In terms of the NEW MF format camera, there are some things I can discuss here and they are as follows:

"The Vendor" has a specific series of markets in mind that go beyond cinema and stills, into engineering and security so FLEXIBILITY is built-in right away. I am going make a GENERAL STATEMENT in that the individual photosites are AROUND 6.7 microns in size which compares favourably to the Canon 1Dx Mk2's 6.6 microns photosite size. This means in terms of low light performance, THAT BY BASE SENSOR DESIGN, the NEW MF sensor at full 8192 by 6144 pixels will match and exceed the light gathering power of the 1Dx Mk2.

ALSO......BECAUSE OF SUPERIOR onboard CPU/GPU/DSP processing power AND some enhancements to the dopants used in the CMOS substrates, image sensor sensitivity and noise handling will in the real world be quite a bit better than the 1Dx Mk2. It will be quite close to the Sony A7s2 sensitivity-wise and as good as or better noise-handling-wise as the Nikon D850 which is an OUTSTANDING camera in my opinion! This means we get the DOUBLE PUNCH of high sensitivity and low noise in a TRUE Medium Format Sensor Size! You will easily be able to use this camera in a smoky bar or in a badly lit concert hall and at night for your busy street stills photography AND moonlit video imaging and get good clean images!

And BECAUSE of the combination of LENS-based and In-Body Stabilization, this will be the FIRST medium format mirrorless GLOBAL SHUTTER camera where critical focus won't be that large of an issue! You can use it for Fast Action/Wildlife/Sports up to 60 fps 50.3 megapixel burst rate stills and video imaging at UP TO 60 fps DCI 8K resolution even in handheld mode!

With the right lenses (i.e. at the 50mm, 85 or 135mm focal lengths), your focal plane will NOT HAVE TO BE so thin anymore. You can still have that razor thin focus with super soft bokeh if you still want, BUT you can ALSO HAVE that micro-four-thirds-like wide focus where everything is razor sharp in frame! They have thought of EVERYONE in this new system!

Like I've said earlier, it's coming sooner than you think!
.
 
Last edited:

bgoyette

EOS T7i
Feb 6, 2015
94
41
--

NONE of my components are LESSER in performance than the APPLE except for the display!.
...and the memory (256 gb vs 1.5tb) ...and the video cards (you would need 8 of yours to equal the memory and bandwidth of the 2 Vega II duo cards in the 50k Mac... and your beloved thread ripper board that can only handle 256gb of memory.... and...and..and.

Look, like you, I have no need for many of the things listed in the fictitious Verge Mac Pro.. but you can’t have it both ways and say you don’t need all that crap, and that your machine still outperforms it, and that your saving 35k, when you’re machine doesn’t remotely match the specs that are associated with the 50k cost of the verge build.

I could just as well say I can save 49k by buying a Breville Precision Brewer, and 2lbs of Peet’s . Makes me feisty in the morning and that’s all I need. Gets me 95% of the way to feeling like I own a Mac Pro V. IT EATS THE THREADRIPPER FOR BREAKFAST!!

 
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HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
457
49
...and the memory (256 gb vs 1.5tb) ...and the video cards (you would need 8 of yours to equal the memory and bandwidth of the 2 Vega II duo cards in the 50k Mac... and your beloved thread ripper board that can only handle 256gb of memory.... and...and..and.

Look, like you, I have no need for many of the things listed in the fictitious Verge Mac Pro.. but you can’t have it both ways and say you don’t need all that crap, and that your machine still outperforms it, and that your saving 35k, when you’re machine doesn’t remotely match the specs that are associated with the 50k cost of the verge build.

I could just as well say I can save 49k by buying a Breville Precision Brewer, and 2lbs of Peet’s . Makes me feisty in the morning and that’s all I need. Gets me 95% of the way to feeling like I own a Mac Pro V. IT EATS THE THREADRIPPER FOR BREAKFAST!!


OKAY OKAY !!! Then I'll simply change out the motherboard and put in the AMD EPYC 7601's and get up to TWO Terabytes on the single CPU EPYC motherboard That's STILL only another $5500 on top of my original price for the CPU and Motherboard. DDR4 RAM of course is a bit of an issue in that full-speed DDR4 RAM is rather expensive. The LARGEST single DDR stick generally available today is 128 Gigabytes in size and is about $4500 US so you need 16 of them (or about $72,000) to fully populate a modern 16-RAM-slot Tyan or SuperMicro brand Server motherboard to get TWO TERABYTES!

NOW ... One of the companies WE deal with creates extender RAM sticks which are actively controlled and EXTERNALLY POWERED "fake ram stick" that attaches a cable that then goes to an external small motherboard containing nothing but RAM chips (populated usually with the same chips used on CHEAPER 8 gigabyte DDR4 RAM sticks) to increase total memory size. The powered cables EXTEND the RAM slots a few inches (about 15 cm usually) so you can stack vertical motherboards filled with only RAM chips! (we did this all the time in the old days with VMEbus mainframes!) which become something like a modern RAM-Drive (i.e. anyone remember using RAMdrive.sys in MS-DOS in the old days?)

These companies do the same type of RAM extension for more advanced system which can get up to 4-CPU-slot and 8-CPU-slot motherboards that access up to FOUR terabytes of RAM per CPU slot giving you in some cases up to 32 TERABYTES of RAM in a computer case maybe only twice the size of Cooler Master's latest full size computer case offering!

i.e. twice the size of this one which supports very large XL-ATX motherboards at 13.58 x 10.31 inched (34.5 cm x 26.2 cm):

This means instead of $72,000 for TWO Terabytes of DDR4 ram using the highest speed, most advanced 128 Gigabyte DDR4/ECC RAM sticks around, we are only paying at most $12,500 for the same TWO TERABYTES since the 8 gigabyte sets of chips from Samsung or Micron are only $50 U.S. each. You have to add special controller chips to the RAM chip mobos since these are technically a form of RAMdrive but that's only $100 per controller chip per RAM board.

I specified my earlier system using only 256 Gigabytes since that WILL EASILY WORK for 4k/8k video and 50 megapixel stills playback/editing/rendering tasks. MOST high-end FAST AsRock, Gigabyte, ASI, etc. branded gaming/workstation class motherboards you can buy on Amazon only support up to that amount of RAM!

For TWO terabytes or more you have to spend the real money and goto SuperMicro and Tyan server-class AMD EPYC motherboards or we goto our own in-house custom-board supplier (another subsidiary of the parent company!) who designs full systems to our own specs which is WHY our company is one of the FEW that has MULTIPLE custom-built 64-cpu-slot IBM Power-9 mainframe systems (48 cores each or 3072 cores total per case!) and multiple racks FILLED with many 8-cpu-slot EPYC motherboards for the Design/CAD/CAM/FEA engineers and PhD specialists ...AND... that I get stuck with a cheap hand-me-down 160-cpu Microway cluster for my video editing/rendering! Ohhhh the humanity of it all !!! The even higher-end GaAs supercomputing systems they have, I won't even bother to describe here...

.
P.S. I actually have a Breville (a slightly lower end version there-of!) and that Breville Precision Brewer, and 2lbs of Peet’s is actually QUITE AN EXCELLENT COFFEE system and MANY if not MOST END-USERS would be tickled pink by having my hypothetical super-editing-system AND it's accompanying Breville and Peet's coffee!
.
So I now stand corrected, and must say that it is the EPYC 7601 or EPYC ROME CPU on a SERVER-class TYAN or SuperMicro motherboard version of my price-sensitive super-system with only 256 Gigabytes of RAM BUT the Vega-2 GPU's when they come out in August or so is what will blow away rendering-power-wise the best MAC !!! That means I still have MORE internal (16 terabytes) and external storage (64 terabytes) to make up for the lack of 1.5 terabytes of ram than the highest end MAC has!

---

NOW .... for me personally... using my OWN limited funds, I am able to buy multiple computer parts from Amazon/Ebay to get me a computer case that has an AMD Threadripper with 32 cores/64 threads and 64 gigabytes of system ram (for now but 256 gigs soon enough!), 16 Terabytes of Internal SSD storage and some NAS boxes (32 terabytes of Spinning 7200 RPM drives) which cost me overall about $3500 over a period of a few months as personal funds became available and good deals came up.
GPU's are workstation class TWO Radeon Pro W9100's bought for $250 EACH at a local auction! The monitors are three cheap but 10 bit HDR 2.7k resolution displays bought over some months from eBay and one bought-at-a-Boxing-Say-sale, super-price-leader 42 inch 4K TV and then eventually a close-out-sale-bought 65 inch 4K 240hz TV used for my master gaming/editing monitor(s). If you're smart and can WAIT for bits and pieces to arrive, you can buy yourself a KILLER PLAYBACK/EDITING/RENDERING/GAMING monster of a Windows 10 machine! Today in June 2019, I can get all the above parts in bulk all-at-once for about $2500 US if I buy off Ebay or Amazon but for me it eventually cost around $3500 US over many months!

---

The parent company is RICH and can AFFORD to buy million dollar+ supercomputers. I AM NOT !!!

I made do for a GREAT home computer system by making shrewd purchases on Ebay/Amazon and many close-out sales to get all my computer goods ready for final assembly! It took some time but was WELL worth it !!! This thing IS A BEAST !!! Realtime 4K and 8K video editing is no issue at all! An equivalent MAC system would have been two, three or even FOUR times more expensive!
.
So the moral of this story is, to KEEP your eyes peeled on eBay/Amazon sales AND look at local auctions to find all the parts of a MONSTER 4k/8K video/stills editing system which only requires some time to buy and maybe a weekend to actually put together! YOU CAN DO THIS TOO !!!!!!!
.
 
Last edited:
Jun 7, 2019
1
0
At first, I was really excited about this. The only thing that makes me believe that this is 'old' tech is the guy said they are recording to "Shoguns" as in plural... this isnt any different than a post about Canon 8k that was posted several months ago. I dont need or even want 8k from Canon. I just want a 4k & 2k with a nice bitrate/ codec camera without weird attributes like the C200. With the C200 you have a total shit 4:2:0 8 bit codec along side a RAW codec that most people dont need all the time. It's 2019, for SHIT sake just give us a good 'everyday" 4k 10bit that has 60p capabilities. Im not trying to ask for crazy features here. Ive been a Canon user since well before the C300 Mki but I swear if Canon doesnt take their head out of their ass, I will be switching platforms very soon. We will see when the C300 MKIII comes out. I hope its not a joke like the C300 Mkii was.... just saying....

Anyone agree?
 

HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
457
49
At first, I was really excited about this. The only thing that makes me believe that this is 'old' tech is the guy said they are recording to "Shoguns" as in plural... this isnt any different than a post about Canon 8k that was posted several months ago. I dont need or even want 8k from Canon. I just want a 4k & 2k with a nice bitrate/ codec camera without weird attributes like the C200. With the C200 you have a total shit 4:2:0 8 bit codec along side a RAW codec that most people dont need all the time. It's 2019, for SHIT sake just give us a good 'everyday" 4k 10bit that has 60p capabilities. Im not trying to ask for crazy features here. Ive been a Canon user since well before the C300 Mki but I swear if Canon doesnt take their head out of their ass, I will be switching platforms very soon. We will see when the C300 MKIII comes out. I hope its not a joke like the C300 Mkii was.... just saying....

Anyone agree?
---

The C300 mk2 wasn't a total joke as you could always get 12-bit 4:4:4 4K resolution RAW video out of it with some BIOS mods, SDI cable and an external recorder! THAT was walys a monster set of files to edit and colour correct BUT the imagery WAS always FANTASTIC!

BUT .... I can tell you that YOU ARE RIGHT that Canon is DEAD DEAD DEAD if they don't have AT LEAST 10-bit 4:2:2 internal 60 fps and up to 14-bit 4:4:4 RAW 60 fps! They can't compete anymore on ergonomics and ruggedness! Not when the systems I described earlier are coming out pretty soon now!

They BETTER HAVE something good cuz what's coming out from other vendors is MORE THAN just good! It's GREAT !!!!!!!
.
 
Jun 6, 2019
8
2
===

From what I understand from my European source, is that the fans are actually larger and lower speed so they are basically nearly silent and are managed literally second-by-second by onboard software similar to how CPU and GPU fans work on desktop computers with their advanced heat management and variable speed fans. There are also heatsinks which have a larger surface area to dissipate heat into a much more highly-engineered convection pattern that is much more efficient than the C300 mk2. Canon learned well from the issues present on the very noisy fan debacle on the old C500 4K cameras!

The C300 mk2 is actually a VERY well engineered camera and in my opinion not that bad at all for operating noise!
BUT when you have a NEW 8K camera that is moving FOUR TIMES the amount of digital data throughout a busy electronics highway, the heat removal business becomes VERY CHALLENGING INDEED !!! Again, they learned well and took their time to model and analyze CPU/DSP/IMAGE SENSOR thermodynamics very extensively!

---

Canon has LONG had 8K and more sensor resolution in APS-H sensor sizes and in APS-C mostly for industrial optics.
Their BIGGEST sensor is a 440 Megapixel monster used in Satellites and Drones (I've seen that one personally at an aerospace industry conference!)

This is NOT NEW technology for Canon, so I am 99.99% percent sure it's the same APS-C Bayer sensor tech running at video-centric 4:2:2 10-bits per colour channel (i.e. 30 bit YCbCr/RGB pixels) with PROBABLY an upgradable Sony Venice-like PAID BIOS upgrade that will unlock 4:4:4 chroma sampling at up to 14 bits per colour channel. I am QUITE sure the Analog-to-Digital Converter chips and DSP (Digital Signal Processing) circuits are 14-bits or MAYBE a full 16-bits wide with a 2-bit overhead used for error diffusion and round-down-to-14-bits purposes! It means the chroma sampling will be USER-SELECTABLE 10-bit, 12-bit and 14-bits per channel at EITHER 4:2:2 Interframe compressed or 4:4:4 fully uncompressed or 2:1 or 3:1 RAW container files. If they put ONLY 8-bit 4:2:0 chroma sampling at 60 fps 8K I would be UTTERLY SURPRISED and VERY DISAPPOINTED !!!

I have a 16-bits per colour channel DCI 8K 60 FPS 4:4:4 Compressed and RAW output MF camera on my desk NOW! If Canon only does 8-bit 4:2:0 8K then Canon is DEAD IN THE WATER !!!

There is NO WAY Canon is putting a Foveon-style Stacked RGB sensor in this new 8K Camera! -- Maybe in the future in OTHER cameras using their own stacked YCbCr/RGB patented sensors!

BUT.....from what I HAVE HEARD on the FINANCIAL ANALYST grapevine, is that it is SONY that wants to BUY all of SIGMA not just for their Foveon image sensor technology but also pretty much all their Stills and Cinema Lens Technology! This means Canon WILL NOT be getting access to Sigma Foveon technology!

So by 4:4:4, I mean that this NEW 8K Canon Camera is PROBABLY coming with up to 14-bits per channel 4:4:4 RAW chroma sampling for high end video. In terms of frame rate, it will DEFINITELY output 60 fps at 4K resolution and probably 30 fps 8K resolution.

---

In terms of the NEW MF format camera, there are some things I can discuss here and they are as follows:

"The Vendor" has a specific series of markets in mind that go beyond cinema and stills, into engineering and security so FLEXIBILITY is built-in right away. I am going make a GENERAL STATEMENT in that the individual photosites are AROUND 6.7 microns in size which compares favourably to the Canon 1Dx Mk2's 6.6 microns photosite size. This means in terms of low light performance, THAT BY BASE SENSOR DESIGN, the NEW MF sensor at full 8192 by 6144 pixels will match and exceed the light gathering power of the 1Dx Mk2.

ALSO......BECAUSE OF SUPERIOR onboard CPU/GPU/DSP processing power AND some enhancements to the dopants used in the CMOS substrates, image sensor sensitivity and noise handling will in the real world be quite a bit better than the 1Dx Mk2. It will be quite close to the Sony A7s2 sensitivity-wise and as good as or better noise-handling-wise as the Nikon D850 which is an OUTSTANDING camera in my opinion! This means we get the DOUBLE PUNCH of high sensitivity and low noise in a TRUE Medium Format Sensor Size! You will easily be able to use this camera in a smoky bar or in a badly lit concert hall and at night for your busy street stills photography AND moonlit video imaging and get good clean images!

And BECAUSE of the combination of LENS-based and In-Body Stabilization, this will be the FIRST medium format mirrorless GLOBAL SHUTTER camera where critical focus won't be that large of an issue! You can use it for Fast Action/Wildlife/Sports up to 60 fps 50.3 megapixel burst rate stills and video imaging at UP TO 60 fps DCI 8K resolution even in handheld mode!

With the right lenses (i.e. at the 50mm, 85 or 135mm focal lengths), your focal plane will NOT HAVE TO BE so thin anymore. You can still have that razor thin focus with super soft bokeh if you still want, BUT you can ALSO HAVE that micro-four-thirds-like wide focus where everything is razor sharp in frame! They have thought of EVERYONE in this new system!

Like I've said earlier, it's coming sooner than you think!
.
This apparently new stills and cinema MF Camera would also need some lenses and given the size of the sensor there aren‘t many choises out there who could cover the image circle: Leica Thalia and Arri Signature Primes but those are extremly expensive and MF, PhaseOne Schneider Kreuznach and Hasselblad H are at least AF. But none of the before mentioned will likely find its way into that camera. So, that‘s another barrier that has to be solved. Not to mention recording options (internally or rhrough anoying cable hassles externally) and ergonomics...
 

HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
457
49
This apparently new stills and cinema MF Camera would also need some lenses and given the size of the sensor there aren‘t many choises out there who could cover the image circle: Leica Thalia and Arri Signature Primes but those are extremly expensive and MF, PhaseOne Schneider Kreuznach and Hasselblad H are at least AF. But none of the before mentioned will likely find its way into that camera. So, that‘s another barrier that has to be solved. Not to mention recording options (internally or rhrough anoying cable hassles externally) and ergonomics...
===

Lenses are ALREADY DONE! I'm using a 35mm, a 50mm, an 85mm, a 135mm and a 200mm --- I DO NOT YET HAVE the 14mm, the 400mm, the 600mm, the 800mm or the 1200mm lenses BUT they ARE ALL COMPLETED and in "The Vendors" hands. I have been informed that the lenses WILL BE COMPETITIVELY PRICED when compared with L-series high end Canon EF Glass which means ON A GENERAL BASIS we are looking at the BELOW BALLPARK FIGURES for a LARGE MF Mount lens series.

VERY GENERAL BALLPARK FIGURES IN U.S. DOLLARS Equivalent to Canon "L" (i.e.Luxury series) lenses.

These are the FASTEST lenses you can get in almost ANY format! The technology needed to create FAST lenses this LARGE is unfathomable because all these lenses have internal LENS stabilization and can be coupled (or not!) with the in-body stabilization! For larger mounts, it is actually EASIER to create fast prime lenses at the below focal lengths.

$3200 U.S. for the 14mm F/1.4
$2800 U.S. for the 35mm f/1.2
$1900 U.S. for the 50mm f/1.2
$2800 U.S. for the 85mm f/1.4
$3650 U.S. for the 135mm f/1.8
$6300 U.S. for the 200mm f/2
$6900 U.S. for the 400mm f/2
$7200 U.S. for the 600mm f/2.8
$9400 U.S. for the 800mm f/4
$18500 U.S. for the 1200mm f/5.6 (bit of a price jump but they think it will sell!)

Zoom lenses are much more difficult to manufacture so prices are higher.

a) the 16mm-to-35mm zoom (coming soon after introduction) is
PROBABLY about $5400 to $6000 U.S. and will be around F2.8

b) the 70-to-200mm zoom (coming soon after introduction) is
PROBABLY about $6800 to $8500 U.S. and will be around F2.8.

I would say that these are DEFINITELY FAAAAAAST zoom lenses at a GREAT price!

There IS a planned 150mm to 650mm zoom lens coming at around F4 to F5.6 set at a ballpark range of about $13000 to $15000 U.S. so prices won't be cheap BUT the lens quality will be premium-level.

There is also a series of planned adapters allowing OTHER large format cinema glass (i.e. Arri/Zeiss/Leica/Cook/etc) to be adapted to this medium format mount (no prices as of yet). AND ... a combined 2x extender/teleconverter with a multi-step user-selectable ND filter system at about $2500. Other focal ranges for PRIME and ZOOM lenses (including servo zooms) will be announced after about a year or so. Tilt Shift, Specialty Macro and Diopters coming as per manufacturer announcements!

These lens series are ALL PREMIUM QUALITY ADVANCED FORMULA SILICA/FLUORITE GLASS element formulae licenced and made in Germany from a major European supplier with lens bodies Assembled and Quality Assured in Japan!
There are currently NO PLANS to quickly introduce a 2nd set of lesser-quality (i.e. lower priced!) Medium Format lens series like what Canon does.
.
I have personal knowledge that there is discussion within the engineering group of using High Refractive Index thin-film sapphire-coated ACRYLIC lens elements to offset the current building costs into a 2nd series of lenses but that PROBABLY won't happen for at least two to three years after introduction! That sort of technology would reduce prices by about on-third to one-half the above values! Since Acrylic has a higher refractive index, the lenses would actually be FASTER and SHARPER corner-to-corner! With the Sapphire (i.e. aluminum oxide!) coating, they would also be quite scratch resistant!
.

Like I have said for a looooooong time, things are NOW getting REEEEEEALLLL interesting !!!
.
Remember! There is ALSO a set of large sensor 2/3rds inch super-smartphones from the SAME vendor that use advanced computational photography melded together with a LARGE image sensor to give YOU, the consumer, an all-in-one device that can be a personal supercomputer AND a GREAT point-and-shoot, highly-sensitive, low-light capable camera!
.
What's NOT to like about all that ???
.
 
Last edited:

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,814
3,327
---

.... If I was a millionaire heck yeah! I would buy multiples of those 4K Canon Critical Reference Monitor's in an INSTANT --- I like them MUCH BETTER than the Sony BVM OLED series displays! I can SEE the difference!.....

.....BUT for me personally on my own budget? NO WAY! I'm the guy who goes to Visions Electronics Superstore on their Boxing Day sales (December 26) to buy a super-discounted price-leader 4K 10-bit HDR TV to use as my monitor! I DO NOT HAVE $34,000+ to spend on a monitor! The parent company DOES! I don't!.....
Harry, just a year or so ago you were claiming about becoming extremely rich from your codec. I am sad to hear it didn't work out for you.

----

Ironically, I was looking at a Bell 206 today in Langley BC...the seats are too small for me with the 429 had MUCH MORE seat and headroom (rode in it last week!) AND has a fully glass cockpit. Hopefully, I get to put the order in within the next two weeks!
 

scyrene

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 4, 2013
2,510
395
UK
www.flickr.com
4k video will be outdated by 2020. Japan will be pushing 8K video for the Olympics and this will be a reality.
What does outdated mean in this context? 99.9+% of broadcast content in my country (the UK) is in HD or lower res, not even 4K. That's not going to have changed in the next 6 months. The high-end cutting-edge will doubtless be at the higher resolution - for flagship events like the Olympics. But it'll take a long time to trickle down, if indeed it ever does.
 
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Reactions: stevelee

HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
457
49
The scary part is that the cobody itself will be
Harry, just a year or so ago you were claiming about becoming extremely rich from your codec. I am sad to hear it didn't work out for you.
===

Oooh!!!! I can DEFINITELY SAY it worked out QUITE ALRIGHT FOR ME !!!

At this time, technically and legally, I own NOTHING and am still as broke as I was before. ....EXCEPT... that at a certain time in the future I will NOT be so "broke" and will own a significant number of physical and financial assets..... Blind Trust says Thank You and Good Night!
..
Next up after the Bell 429, is an Su-27 Flanker with the T10-20R conversion for long-range supersonic flight AND lessons so I can fly to a Toronto Raptors game in 2.5 hours with an in-air refuel!
.
Then we'll see about getting y'all that electro-magneto-plasmadynamic anti-gravity engine which I will be giving away to the ENTIRE WORLD FOR FREE under the 2019 GNU GPL-3 Open Source licence terms!
.
After THAT, I will see if I can get some of that crusty skin buffed off my big toes .....
.
 
Jun 6, 2019
8
2
===

Lenses are ALREADY DONE! I'm using a 35mm, a 50mm, an 85mm, a 135mm and a 200mm --- I DO NOT YET HAVE the 14mm, the 400mm, the 600mm, the 800mm or the 1200mm lenses BUT they ARE ALL COMPLETED and in "The Vendors" hands. I have been informed that the lenses WILL BE COMPETITIVELY PRICED when compared with L-series high end Canon EF Glass which means ON A GENERAL BASIS we are looking at the BELOW BALLPARK FIGURES for a LARGE MF Mount lens series.

VERY GENERAL BALLPARK FIGURES IN U.S. DOLLARS Equivalent to Canon "L" (i.e.Luxury series) lenses.

These are the FASTEST lenses you can get in almost ANY format! The technology needed to create FAST lenses this LARGE is unfathomable because all these lenses have internal LENS stabilization and can be coupled (or not!) with the in-body stabilization! For larger mounts, it is actually EASIER to create fast prime lenses at the below focal lengths.

$3200 U.S. for the 14mm F/1.4
$2800 U.S. for the 35mm f/1.2
$1900 U.S. for the 50mm f/1.2
$2800 U.S. for the 85mm f/1.4
$3650 U.S. for the 135mm f/1.8
$6300 U.S. for the 200mm f/2
$6900 U.S. for the 400mm f/2
$7200 U.S. for the 600mm f/2.8
$9400 U.S. for the 800mm f/4
$18500 U.S. for the 1200mm f/5.6 (bit of a price jump but they think it will sell!)

Zoom lenses are much more difficult to manufacture so prices are higher.

a) the 16mm-to-35mm zoom (coming soon after introduction) is
PROBABLY about $5400 to $6000 U.S. and will be around F2.8

b) the 70-to-200mm zoom (coming soon after introduction) is
PROBABLY about $6800 to $8500 U.S. and will be around F2.8.

I would say that these are DEFINITELY FAAAAAAST zoom lenses at a GREAT price!

There IS a planned 150mm to 650mm zoom lens coming at around F4 to F5.6 set at a ballpark range of about $13000 to $15000 U.S. so prices won't be cheap BUT the lens quality will be premium-level.

There is also a series of planned adapters allowing OTHER large format cinema glass (i.e. Arri/Zeiss/Leica/Cook/etc) to be adapted to this medium format mount (no prices as of yet). AND ... a combined 2x extender/teleconverter with a multi-step user-selectable ND filter system at about $2500. Other focal ranges for PRIME and ZOOM lenses (including servo zooms) will be announced after about a year or so. Tilt Shift, Specialty Macro and Diopters coming as per manufacturer announcements!

These lens series are ALL PREMIUM QUALITY ADVANCED FORMULA SILICA/FLUORITE GLASS element formulae licenced and made in Germany from a major European supplier with lens bodies Assembled and Quality Assured in Japan!
There are currently NO PLANS to quickly introduce a 2nd set of lesser-quality (i.e. lower priced!) Medium Format lens series like what Canon does.
.
I have personal knowledge that there is discussion within the engineering group of using High Refractive Index thin-film sapphire-coated ACRYLIC lens elements to offset the current building costs into a 2nd series of lenses but that PROBABLY won't happen for at least two to three years after introduction! That sort of technology would reduce prices by about on-third to one-half the above values! Since Acrylic has a higher refractive index, the lenses would actually be FASTER and SHARPER corner-to-corner! With the Sapphire (i.e. aluminum oxide!) coating, they would also be quite scratch resistant!
.

Like I have said for a looooooong time, things are NOW getting REEEEEEALLLL interesting !!!
.
Remember! There is ALSO a set of large sensor 2/3rds inch super-smartphones from the SAME vendor that use advanced computational photography melded together with a LARGE image sensor to give YOU, the consumer, an all-in-one device that can be a personal supercomputer AND a GREAT point-and-shoot, highly-sensitive, low-light capable camera!
.
What's NOT to like about all that ???
.
That sounds truly bold! So bold that I'm either super keen to see it in real life (as I'm just about to buy the Kinefinity Mavo LF Cinecam and keep my Leica SL for stills) or just start to become skeptical. 14mm, 400mm up to 1200mm for MF? Well, when is this camera going to be released? This year, next year or ever?
 

HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
457
49
That sounds truly bold! So bold that I'm either super keen to see it in real life (as I'm just about to buy the Kinefinity Mavo LF Cinecam and keep my Leica SL for stills) or just start to become skeptical. 14mm, 400mm up to 1200mm for MF? Well, when is this camera going to be released? This year, next year or ever?
===

I don't have input into that part of sales and distribution ... I just do CODECs !!! ... :) ;-) But it will be soon enough ....
.
I'm still kinda surprised that I am actually BEING ALLOWED to talk here... we'll see what happens ....
.
 

3kramd5

EOS 5D MK IV
Mar 2, 2012
3,083
404
Try paying for a FULL Catia CAD/CAM/FEA Suite which PER LICENCE going quite a bit past $35,000 US per seat!
I’m own the budget for 55 seats of V5 with various floating licenses. Color me skeptical you need FEA and CAM for each seat... or that you even know what it costs.
 

scyrene

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 4, 2013
2,510
395
UK
www.flickr.com
That sounds truly bold! So bold that I'm either super keen to see it in real life (as I'm just about to buy the Kinefinity Mavo LF Cinecam and keep my Leica SL for stills) or just start to become skeptical. 14mm, 400mm up to 1200mm for MF? Well, when is this camera going to be released? This year, next year or ever?
You're only just becoming sceptical??
 

HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
457
49
I’m own the budget for 55 seats of V5 with various floating licenses. Color me skeptical you need FEA and CAM for each seat... or that you even know what it costs.
==

We have numerous aerospace, metallurgy, computer and general design engineers .... they require the FULL CATIA toolset for aerospace, automotive, mechanical, etc! And then there is that damn $2000 yearly + 18% yearly module maintenance fee! I think the largest set of tools we bought PER SEAT cost us like $170,000 US each !!!

It could be worse! We use to pay nearly $500,000+ per seat for other systems a decade ago!

AND YES each engineer gets their own CATIA suite and access to THEIR OWN Stratasys 3D-Printer for plastic/resin models output AND there is a series of large-dimension (2400mm by 2400 by 3600 mm) electron beam metal powder sintering machines AND multiple 5-axis CNC hard metal milling machines.

That's a few million right there! AND then they ALL have access to 8-way AMD EPYC motherboard racks, IBM Power-9 racks, multiple Microway Clusters (I use one of them!) and for the lucky few engineers, they get access to a very very powerful GaAs series of supercomputers in the Top500-class of machines! We have MUCH MORE computing horsepower than ANY OTHER entity in Canada and we rival some of the biggest computing setups in the USA and CHINA !!!!

Technically, I could just simply publicly brag that the 60 GHz GaAs supercomputer and Two Terahertz SIMD/MIMD Array Processor setup is actually the WORLD'S FASTEST SUPERCOMPUTER by a very very very very wide margin UTTERLY OBLITERATING the floating point and integer performance of "Summit" and doing it at 128-bits wide !!!! ..... BUT THAT would be just pedantic of me..... ;-) :) :)

---

Oh well .... I wonder what Canon is going to do now?
.
Hmmmm ... is a Canon one inch sensor chip 4K action cam REALLY going to be enough to halt the slide-over to Sony/Fuji/Pentax and dare I say it Apple or Samsung?
.
We shall see soon enough !!!
.