Update on Lightroom 2015.2 / Lightroom 6.2 Release
- Thread starter Canon Rumors Guy
- Start date
I know privatebydesign will roll his eyes when (or if) he reads this, but it is an apt time to bring up the whole subscription model issue again. Bear with me.
Suppose the LR team decides not to back down on the new Import "experience." (And remember, this is not some "rogue" development team; this initiative to a flagship product came down from the top.) And it's not just the loss of functionality, but also the entire redesigned UI, especially the dimming of the thumbnails, the lack of dupe warning, the loss of the filename, and the monstrous check mark that obscures the image that are at issue. (And really, why does the type (real information) get so tiny and the check mark (not-so-real information) get so big? That's strictly amateur hour, frankly--somebody's right out of design school.)
Now, for the purposes of our thought experiment we have two users; a subscriber and an owner of a perpetual license. We are both equally incensed about the change; it's ruined our workflow. We both roll back to 6.1.1. Well, how exactly are you going to feel, as a subscriber, to continue paying for the software knowing that any future features added are beyond your reach until you bend to Adobe's will? Because what is your other option? To stop using the software. Yowtch. I can tell you as the holder of a perpetual license I just shrug. The less I update, the more I'm amortizing the cost of the software. Frankly, I haven't seen any features to any Adobe product that would drive me to abandon my license and subscribe, and I can tell you that I've subsequently paid for my CS6 license many times over. That's called "money Adobe's not getting." Worse, as a subscriber you have absolutely no leverage but to freeze your version, and then you are still paying for it whether you like it not. With subscription, it's Adobe's way or the highway. Are you resentful yet? Get back to me in a year after you've made all those payments for what would be essentially deprecated software. And any notion of Adobe always doing the best for its users has been clearly and completely blown out of the water by this update. They admitted they didn't even consult any veteran users before rolling this out. It will be interesting to see how this shakes out, but I'm guessing 6.2 is the new face of LR and those who think Adobe will "do the right thing" are likely to be disappointed.
At least with perpetual license you have some sway over the powers that be at Adobe. And if you don't think that's the case, watch the Adobe MAX product demos from this week. In every case, the product managers compare the new features and speed of the new offerings to CS6! That's like Apple touting the features of El Capitan by comparing it with Lion. That tells me, pretty unequivocally, that they are not converting existing perpetual licenses. Because if they were, their product managers wouldn't let them mention CS6 on pain of death. It's old history--unless it's not.
I don't understand why subscription boosters can't see the arguments of perpetual license boosters. We're not saying one or the other; as a perpetual user, subscription is great. Have at it! Just don't take the disc out of my hand. Indeed, Adobe's original stated intention was to have them operate side-by-side for three years. They reneged on that (well, sort of; you can still quietly buy CS6 from Adobe today which is another reason those demos are comparing the new versions to CS6). Subscription or perpetual license, take your pick; does that seem so impossible? At the very least it will help keep Adobe honest.
Suppose the LR team decides not to back down on the new Import "experience." (And remember, this is not some "rogue" development team; this initiative to a flagship product came down from the top.) And it's not just the loss of functionality, but also the entire redesigned UI, especially the dimming of the thumbnails, the lack of dupe warning, the loss of the filename, and the monstrous check mark that obscures the image that are at issue. (And really, why does the type (real information) get so tiny and the check mark (not-so-real information) get so big? That's strictly amateur hour, frankly--somebody's right out of design school.)
Now, for the purposes of our thought experiment we have two users; a subscriber and an owner of a perpetual license. We are both equally incensed about the change; it's ruined our workflow. We both roll back to 6.1.1. Well, how exactly are you going to feel, as a subscriber, to continue paying for the software knowing that any future features added are beyond your reach until you bend to Adobe's will? Because what is your other option? To stop using the software. Yowtch. I can tell you as the holder of a perpetual license I just shrug. The less I update, the more I'm amortizing the cost of the software. Frankly, I haven't seen any features to any Adobe product that would drive me to abandon my license and subscribe, and I can tell you that I've subsequently paid for my CS6 license many times over. That's called "money Adobe's not getting." Worse, as a subscriber you have absolutely no leverage but to freeze your version, and then you are still paying for it whether you like it not. With subscription, it's Adobe's way or the highway. Are you resentful yet? Get back to me in a year after you've made all those payments for what would be essentially deprecated software. And any notion of Adobe always doing the best for its users has been clearly and completely blown out of the water by this update. They admitted they didn't even consult any veteran users before rolling this out. It will be interesting to see how this shakes out, but I'm guessing 6.2 is the new face of LR and those who think Adobe will "do the right thing" are likely to be disappointed.
At least with perpetual license you have some sway over the powers that be at Adobe. And if you don't think that's the case, watch the Adobe MAX product demos from this week. In every case, the product managers compare the new features and speed of the new offerings to CS6! That's like Apple touting the features of El Capitan by comparing it with Lion. That tells me, pretty unequivocally, that they are not converting existing perpetual licenses. Because if they were, their product managers wouldn't let them mention CS6 on pain of death. It's old history--unless it's not.
I don't understand why subscription boosters can't see the arguments of perpetual license boosters. We're not saying one or the other; as a perpetual user, subscription is great. Have at it! Just don't take the disc out of my hand. Indeed, Adobe's original stated intention was to have them operate side-by-side for three years. They reneged on that (well, sort of; you can still quietly buy CS6 from Adobe today which is another reason those demos are comparing the new versions to CS6). Subscription or perpetual license, take your pick; does that seem so impossible? At the very least it will help keep Adobe honest.
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The slow (very slow) start-up and crashing issues are equally frustrating surely Adobe should have tested the product to death prior to launch. Ive rolled mine back to 2015-1 in time-machine until they sort the mess out, its no longer crashing due to their work around but very very slow.
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A professional post on another forum!
Enoch says:
October 7, 2015 at 10:21 pm
Having been a Lightroom user since version 1, the new import screen is somewhat nice, but I don’t think that it’s significant enough, and still could use a little more work and thinking outside the box before implementation.
I ran Lightroom side-by-side with Aperture and Photo Mechanic (ew) from day one, as to know all the software and to see how they would develop. I can say, there were a lot of things I appreciated about Aperture’s user interface and the design of the working environment as a whole. They were things I wish would have inspired Adobe to do better with on Lightroom. I miss the process of importing on Aperture. It was seamless.
The main thing is, that Adobe should be making software that allows us to spend more time (or our limited time) focusing on what we do best, being creative and making great work. While Lightroom is wonderfully robust, it still lacks in that area, that is, being a virtual work environment where photographers can really edit efficiently and at ease. The import dialog is a small step, but it’s trying to be both for the novist first and professional second. I agree with the sentiment that professionals should have the option to have a more robust import dialog, but I feel like the whole concept of importing, according to Adobe, needs a fresh look.
My main issue right now however, is not that import dialog, it’s the nearly unusable state of the software which has wasted me much time and money recently. It’s also about the leadership of the company which seems to allow for this botched update, which seemingly has become complacent with outdated approaches to software design. As I’ve said before, it’s important for creatives to have good virtual workspaces, and it’s an irony that the software used to create hopefully well designed/created things, is in itself, poorly designed.
I simply want to edit on deadline, fulfill my client needs on a timely basis, and go home at a reasonable hour, because my work can’t wait. I sure hope this kicks Asobe in the ass to do better in the future and I mean, to really rethink things and the way things are done and to focus on improving the experience rather than increased functionality and features that aren’t necessary. It’s very clear through the forum posts, which I have been tracking, and from other sources, that Adobe hasn’t been doing this. While it’s great that there is an effort to obtain feedback, it doesn’t seem to be from the right place. Sure, Lightroom is possibly for everyone, but first and foremost it should be a professional product and a reliable one at that.
He put exactly how I felt about the change from Aperture to Lightroom.
Enoch says:
October 7, 2015 at 10:21 pm
Having been a Lightroom user since version 1, the new import screen is somewhat nice, but I don’t think that it’s significant enough, and still could use a little more work and thinking outside the box before implementation.
I ran Lightroom side-by-side with Aperture and Photo Mechanic (ew) from day one, as to know all the software and to see how they would develop. I can say, there were a lot of things I appreciated about Aperture’s user interface and the design of the working environment as a whole. They were things I wish would have inspired Adobe to do better with on Lightroom. I miss the process of importing on Aperture. It was seamless.
The main thing is, that Adobe should be making software that allows us to spend more time (or our limited time) focusing on what we do best, being creative and making great work. While Lightroom is wonderfully robust, it still lacks in that area, that is, being a virtual work environment where photographers can really edit efficiently and at ease. The import dialog is a small step, but it’s trying to be both for the novist first and professional second. I agree with the sentiment that professionals should have the option to have a more robust import dialog, but I feel like the whole concept of importing, according to Adobe, needs a fresh look.
My main issue right now however, is not that import dialog, it’s the nearly unusable state of the software which has wasted me much time and money recently. It’s also about the leadership of the company which seems to allow for this botched update, which seemingly has become complacent with outdated approaches to software design. As I’ve said before, it’s important for creatives to have good virtual workspaces, and it’s an irony that the software used to create hopefully well designed/created things, is in itself, poorly designed.
I simply want to edit on deadline, fulfill my client needs on a timely basis, and go home at a reasonable hour, because my work can’t wait. I sure hope this kicks Asobe in the ass to do better in the future and I mean, to really rethink things and the way things are done and to focus on improving the experience rather than increased functionality and features that aren’t necessary. It’s very clear through the forum posts, which I have been tracking, and from other sources, that Adobe hasn’t been doing this. While it’s great that there is an effort to obtain feedback, it doesn’t seem to be from the right place. Sure, Lightroom is possibly for everyone, but first and foremost it should be a professional product and a reliable one at that.
He put exactly how I felt about the change from Aperture to Lightroom.
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This is my first post, I follow canon rumors every day. Switched to Lightroom from Aperture about a year ago. I am using the stand alone Lightroom 6 now and downloaded the update right away. Oh my, what a mess. The app kept crashing and the import function, which needed no improvement, in my opinion, was a mess. I closed Lightroom and used Time Machine to restore to my previous version, which works fine. If the stand alone version update had the dehazing tool, I might have kept it but I could see no reason to keep it and put up with the crashes.
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.
I think you make my case. I'm not talking about doing things in machine language, just simple mapping of a drive. But then I do come from a world where DOS reigned. Apparently I need to lower my expectations.
I think you make my case. I'm not talking about doing things in machine language, just simple mapping of a drive. But then I do come from a world where DOS reigned. Apparently I need to lower my expectations.
jeffa4444 said:
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I've finally installed the update. Other than the way the options are presented, I see little or no difference. The file selection from the left sidebar is now on its own screen.
The user unfriendly file import method has been well known, I've answered countless questions over the years from new users.
I hope that it helps new lightroom users out, but I'm still in doubt. Understanding the concept and the importance of the database is something that totally blows by new users
The user unfriendly file import method has been well known, I've answered countless questions over the years from new users.
I hope that it helps new lightroom users out, but I'm still in doubt. Understanding the concept and the importance of the database is something that totally blows by new users
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Kathode-Ray said:
The previous import screen (call it v2) sucked eggs. The one before that (call it v1), which looked just like the current export window, was just fine. It was the change away from v1 to v2 that was horribly confusing to new users. I answered probably several hundred questions from users on how to use v2, after answering only a few questions on how to use v1. The new one (call it v3) is a simplified version of v2. Still not very intuitive to new users, and it now has less functionality.
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Just experienced the crashing on import phenomenon with the new version for the first time. Shortly after, I got the pop-up from the adobe creative cloud that another update was now available. Let's hope if fixes that big bug!
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Lee Jay said:
Could you please read the post before mine, to put things in the right context?
Thank you.
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distant.star said:
Nobody asks a LR user to be able to repair his or her own hardware, just to be able to use his or her own PC. Today modern planes has a lot of electronics on board. Pilots are required to learn how to use GPS and Flight Management Systems which may be not so intuitive in their operations (a plane GPS is more complex than a car one), as soon as they wish to fly outside the simplest airspaces and airplanes. Not everything may be made too 'easy', without losing functionalities. The idea that a computer should be used without training is silly. It's one of the most complex devices people have access to.
I understand Adobe wants to be the new Kodak ('you press the button, we do the rest'), but even Kodak had professional products, and anyway its cameras never became truly appealing products. Does Adobe needs a "Lightroom Elements"? Maybe, if there's a market for it.
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There is a major issue for new users with LR. But it is not the import screen per se. The difficulty stems from the totally wretched, unintuitive Adobe LR concept, specifically having to IMPORT any image file first into a strange LR catalogue instead of just OPENing the file displayed in a file folder to edit it.
Adobe is unnecessarily doubling up on what the Operating system already does!
Imagine if Microsoft Office users would have to "import" every single document into an MS Word or Excel CATALOGUE first, rather than just to OPEN the file and start working on it!
Or - after inserting 2 new slides into a Powerpoint presentation one would not just click on "SAVE" but have to "EXPORT" the file.
Adobe forces an exotic workflow, strange naming of actions and user interface on users that makes it an utterly un-intuitive experience. Worst in Photoshop, but also LR is unnecessarily "difficult".
Adobe should abolish the catalogue from LR. Edit data goes into the xmps, metadata goes into file headers and all the catalogueing is done by windows or mac OS. Like with any other program. Users would then just open files, save them or rename them. Easy, simple, straightforward.
Having to IMPORT at all is the true source of confusion re. iMPORT for new LR users. It is not stupid/n00b users fault, it is solely Adobes fault. Adobe software is ROGUE and off-track both in the Windows world and in mac OS land. The more i see of this Adobe sh*t the more it pisses me off.
Adobe is unnecessarily doubling up on what the Operating system already does!
Imagine if Microsoft Office users would have to "import" every single document into an MS Word or Excel CATALOGUE first, rather than just to OPEN the file and start working on it!
Or - after inserting 2 new slides into a Powerpoint presentation one would not just click on "SAVE" but have to "EXPORT" the file.
Adobe forces an exotic workflow, strange naming of actions and user interface on users that makes it an utterly un-intuitive experience. Worst in Photoshop, but also LR is unnecessarily "difficult".
Adobe should abolish the catalogue from LR. Edit data goes into the xmps, metadata goes into file headers and all the catalogueing is done by windows or mac OS. Like with any other program. Users would then just open files, save them or rename them. Easy, simple, straightforward.
Having to IMPORT at all is the true source of confusion re. iMPORT for new LR users. It is not stupid/n00b users fault, it is solely Adobes fault. Adobe software is ROGUE and off-track both in the Windows world and in mac OS land. The more i see of this Adobe sh*t the more it pisses me off.
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