We May Be Waiting a Little While Longer for a New 50mm Lens [CR2]

[slclick]

I already hear the keen cry of anguish from one CR member, in particular.

It's cool. I'm fine. I'm just going to print this post out and stare at it quietly while playing The Cure in my room.

- A

Pornography because there's no 50 in sight or The Top because everything is spinning and confusing? (The Top is my favorite)

fwiw to the uninitiated, 'Pornography' is the name of an album.

 

[BillB]

My question is this: for all those of you that know what I'd ideally want -- a compact (and not necessarily face-meltingly sharp) 50 f/1.4 IS USM like the 35 f/2 IS -- what happens if the next new 50 is an L like the 85 f/1.4L IS?

Such a lens will likely be too big for me. I want a compact double gauss lens.

Seeing as it might be last new 50 we get for 5-10 years after that f/1.4L IS is announced, do I cave and get the f/1.2L because it's still relatively compact? Do I except all of it's flaws (finnicky AF, non-flat field, really a specialty tool for wide open shooting) or wait even longer for a non-L replacement?

- A

One option would be to go ahead and get the f1.2L, if that lens is something that would actually work for you. The chances don't look good for anything showing up for about a year, and maybe quite a bit longer than that. As you point out, if a 50L does show up it is likely to be pretty hefty. Realistically it doesn't seem as though the 50 you want is likely to show up anytime soon, and you would have the 50L in the meantime. If the right 50 does appear, then it would be time to sell the f1.2, after having its use in the meantime.

 

[ahsanford]

One option would be to go ahead and get the f1.2L, if that lens is something that would actually work for you. The chances don't look good for anything showing up for about a year, and maybe quite a bit longer than that. As you point out, if a 50L does show up it is likely to be pretty hefty. Realistically it doesn't seem as though the 50 you want is likely to show up anytime soon, and you would have the 50L in the meantime. If the right 50 does appear, then it would be time to sell the f1.2, after having its use in the meantime.

^^ This. ^^

I think I'm getting a 50L refurb and then flipping it if something better comes along. I don't buy gear and flip it like this -- I make careful targeted pickups to fill needs I have. But this one small part of my limited armamentarium (5D3 + 8 lenses + T/C + two speedlites + healthy bit of landscape gear) is actually holding me back photographically.

My 50 f/1.4 USM is fine for general shooting and the AF is okay in my copy, but I use it f/2.8 or narrower and I miss certain moments when the AF decides to hunt. I'd like a large aperture instrument around 50mm that I can count on with first party ring USM.

- A

 

[DaviSto]

I'm just hoping whatever eventually appears puts a big dent into the second hand value of the 50mm f/1.2 L. That would suit me perfectly.

 

[ahsanford]

I'm just hoping whatever eventually appears puts a big dent into the second hand value of the 50mm f/1.2 L. That would suit me perfectly.

You can get a refurb in the mid $900s from Canon during one of their sales. Those lenses are usually in top shape (far better than the scratch n' ding used items you'd get at KEH, B&H, etc.) and you get a 1 year Canon warranty. That would be my move for a 50L for sure.

But I'd so go in with full retail asking on day one on a 50mm f/1.4 version of the 35mm f/2 IS USM as would (I'd imagine) an army of people here. Provided a relatively compact double gauss setup remained, I'd pay $999 for that on day one.

- A

 

[mjg79]

I think we must remember that Canon is a business and they aim to make money. I realise that a fast high quality 50 is exciting to those of us who read here but I suspect Canon's research probably finds little interest, or at least not enough for them to be making it a priority.

The problem will come down to crowding. Those who want an inexpensive 50mm lens have the 1.8 or even the 1.4 really. Those who want a beautiful, exotic L version have the 1.2 L. Those who want the last word in sharpness have likely bought either the Sigma Art or the Otus 55. Those who want a nice mix of sharpness and bokeh can still buy the old Sigma EX version. Some of those who were really wanting IS have maybe already bought the Tamron 45.

Amid all of this where would Canon go? Try to go after Art/Otus optical performance and it is going to be huge and expensive.

As it happens I think there are things they could do that would sell. A 50 1.4 L IS in a similar vein to the new 85 1.4 L IS could complement the more "artistic" 1.2 in the same way they plan to with the 85. Or a 50 1.8 IS similar to the 35/2 IS would be popular.

However would they sell enough given the plethora of other options buyers have? I am sure they will be developing such lenses and they will come eventually but I really doubt the noise online matches the results of market research or Canon would be there already.

As for what I would like - well I like what Nikon did with the 58/1.4 and think that having a 50 and a 58 gives them some more room for different types of lenses. I think the best "50" ever made was the old Nikon Noct 58/1.2 and it wasn't even that big - a Canon Noct with that sort of rendering at 58 and a new 1.4 L with a clean clinical look at 50 would be a nice choice to have.

I also think Canon is a bit mad not to release a new 50 1.0. You only have to look at eBay to see they sell for a fortune. I realise that that lens was never actually very good and indeed the 50 1.2 is probably better in every respect but still it would be great to see what they could do with it with modern tech and coatings and it would be a nice way to rub Nikon's nose in the fact they can't do the same. I also think the world has changed and there is a growing slice of photographers who are obsessed with buying the absolutely best or most extreme. Almost nobody really needs an 11-24, a Leica 0.95 lens, any of the Otus lenses etc but for a variety of reasons some people are happy to pay several thousand dollars for them. I think those people would buy a 50 1.0 L II as fast as they could be made.

 

[Ditboy]

That's OK Canon, I'll buy a Sigma instead...

 

[slclick]

That's OK Canon, I'll buy a Sigma instead...

It won't have the new and improved AF motor the 85 & 135 have. Still hunts and is not that accurate. Great optics yes (I have owned two) Now if they made a Mark 2, it would be amaze balls. Jelly jar full of amaze balls.

 

[Mr Majestyk]

How Canon works is bizarre. They are happy to release mk II or even mk III versions of lenses 5-7 years old, but continue to make clunkers from the 1990's like the 50 f/1.4, 300 f/4L IS 400 f/5.6L and not update lenses like the 135 f/2, 200 f/2.8, 180 f/3.5 macro. A 50mm is a popular lens and others have much better offerings. It's about the easiest lens to design and here we are in 2017 and still nothing in sight. Probably get the $20K 600 f/4 DO long before we get a new 50mm.

 

[Boyer U. Klum-Cey]

Waiting for 50mmLensdot Or, was that 50mmLensdough?
Will someone get Vladimir on the line post haste, eh?

 

[Neopulse]

I waited too long for a 50mm f/1.2L to come out since I recently migrated to Canon. I chose in the meanwhile the Tamron 45mm f/1.8 VC as an alternative meanwhile for my 6DII. It's got IS and good resolution detail than the current Canon f/1.4 & 1.8 lenses.

 

[tron]

One option would be to go ahead and get the f1.2L, if that lens is something that would actually work for you. The chances don't look good for anything showing up for about a year, and maybe quite a bit longer than that. As you point out, if a 50L does show up it is likely to be pretty hefty. Realistically it doesn't seem as though the 50 you want is likely to show up anytime soon, and you would have the 50L in the meantime. If the right 50 does appear, then it would be time to sell the f1.2, after having its use in the meantime.

^^ This. ^^

I think I'm getting a 50L refurb and then flipping it if something better comes along. I don't buy gear and flip it like this -- I make careful targeted pickups to fill needs I have. But this one small part of my limited armamentarium (5D3 + 8 lenses + T/C + two speedlites + healthy bit of landscape gear) is actually holding me back photographically.

My 50 f/1.4 USM is fine for general shooting and the AF is okay in my copy, but I use it f/2.8 or narrower and I miss certain moments when the AF decides to hunt. I'd like a large aperture instrument around 50mm that I can count on with first party ring USM.

- A

Buying that 50L may be the only way to persuade Canon to announce a new one (immediately afterwards) ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

[Ah-Keong]

How about:

(double gauss) 50mm f/1,2L mark II

or

(retrofocus) 50mm f/1,4L IS USM

 

[Mac Duderson]

I bought 2 Canon 50mm 1.2L's AFTER Sigma released their ART version because I preferred the bokeh of the 1.2L better even thought I knew the Siggy ART was sharper. However last year the AF ribbon broke inside the first one so I bought a SECOND 1.2L not wanting to give up on Canon. :-[ However just 2 months ago the Aperture broke inside the SECOND 1.2L!!!!! :-[ :-[ :-[
Ticked off I finally caved and bought the MORE RELIABLE Sigma ART and have had no problems.
Really bothers me when I try to get #1 name brand stuff and they broke more often the a 18-55mm kit lens.
Canon wake up, your being beat by companies that cost 1/3 the cost! ;D ;D

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I have the Canon 50mm f/2.5 Macro. I like it better than the other consumer grade 50's even though its not a fast lens. Of course, I also get 50mm with my 24-70L so I don't really miss one. I have a Nikon 55mm Micro lens adapted to Canon as well as a Olympus, Minolta, and some other M43 lenses.

 

[ahsanford]

How about:

(double gauss) 50mm f/1,2L mark II

or

(retrofocus) 50mm f/1,4L IS USM

I'm not certain the 50mm FL is going to 'pull an 85' with the f/1.2L and f/1.4L IS being sold side by side. But a retrofocus resolution champ in the 50mm space would seem inevitable for Canon, and I don't see such a lens being a non-L. So your theory is entirely plausible.

- A

 

[JonAustin]

I have the Canon 50mm f/2.5 Macro. I like it better than the other consumer grade 50's even though its not a fast lens. Of course, I also get 50mm with my 24-70L so I don't really miss one.

I have the 50mm f/2.5 compact macro, as well, and it suited me for this FL for more than 10 years, but it's AF began failing about a year ago, and I don't think it's worth the money to get it fixed, if Canon even still provides service for it. It still works in MF mode, of course. My only other lens is this range is the original 24-105/4L IS, so I would really love to see Canon step up and fill this (to me) glaringly obvious deficiency in its product line.

 

[Antono Refa]

I think we must remember that Canon is a business and they aim to make money. I realise that a fast high quality 50 is exciting to those of us who read here but I suspect Canon's research probably finds little interest, or at least not enough for them to be making it a priority.

Interesting that...

1) Zeiss did their research, and found there's a market for a 55mm f/1.4 Otus, and an 85mm f/1.4 Otus.

2) Sigma did their research, and found there's a market for a 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art, and an 85mm f/1.4 Art.

3) Tamron did their research, and found there's a market for an SP 45mm f/1.8 Di VC USD, and an SP 85mm f/1.8 Di VC USD.

4) Nikon did their research, and found there's a market for a 58mm f/1.4G AF-S, and an 85mm f/1.4G AF-S.

5) Canon did their research, and found there's absolutely no market for a 50mm f/1.4[L] IS USM. The 85mm f/1.4L IS USM does have a market, but it's whole different story.

The market isn't just people who would buy the lens within the first year. It's for people who want to buy OEM now, or their first camera next year, or switch from Nikon the year after that.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I think we must remember that Canon is a business and they aim to make money. I realise that a fast high quality 50 is exciting to those of us who read here but I suspect Canon's research probably finds little interest, or at least not enough for them to be making it a priority.

Interesting that...

1) Zeiss did their research, and found there's a market for a 55mm f/1.4 Otus, and an 85mm f/1.4 Otus.

2) Sigma did their research, and found there's a market for a 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art, and an 85mm f/1.4 Art.

3) Tamron did their research, and found there's a market for an SP 45mm f/1.8 Di VC USD, and an SP 85mm f/1.8 Di VC USD.

4) Nikon did their research, and found there's a market for a 58mm f/1.4G AF-S, and an 85mm f/1.4G AF-S.

5) Canon did their research, and found there's absolutely no market for a 50mm f/1.4[L] IS USM. The 85mm f/1.4L IS USM does have a market, but it's whole different story.

The market isn't just people who would buy the lens within the first year. It's for people who want to buy OEM now, or their first camera next year, or switch from Nikon the year after that.

Where did you find information about Canon's market research? Can you share it?


Canon is very good at market research and has figures for their sales, and likely for sales of others. You can purchase the information which is collected from major retailers around the world. Everyone has it, its what they do with it that determines how successful their company is.

Low cost lenses will sell, even if AF is erratic, many buy the Sigma lens due to price for a otherwise excellent lens. Tamron is the largest lens manufacturer in the world, and can churn out very large numbers of low cost lenses, and their autofocus is fairly reliable, but often slow. They are a force to be reckoned with. You can get the lens for $400 at B&H. Go for it if you think its so good. Read the reviews though first, there is a reason its discounted by $200. https://www.lenstip.com/454.11-Lens_review-Tamron_SP_45_mm_f_1.8_Di_VC_USD_Summary.html


Nikon is closing factories and pulling out of Brazil, do you really think their decisions based on their market research is that good? How many of those $1600 lenses are selling? Making poor decisions can cause some severe problems to sales. Nikon has been making a lot of them. Zeiss sells relatively few lenses, they subcontract them out. They are not a factor in competing with someone who wants to sell 100,000 to 1,000,000 a year.

I can only guess, but Canon probably sees buyers wanting more zoom lenses, and see few buyers going for expensive 50mm prime lenses. Buyers are price sensitive, and go for the lowest cost item that does the job. The 50mm f/1.8 fits the need for a low cost lens. It certainly is not a high performance lens, but that likely is not missed by the huge numbers of people who buy one.

Its possible to turn out a really good consumer grade f/1.8 lens for 4X the price and kill sales, so their option is to create a high end lens that sells in lower quantities, which raises the price and becomes a even lower volume product. I have no interest in a $1500 50mm lens. People seem to think that such a new lens will be cheap, but it will cost about the same as the 85mm f/1.4 L , and the Nikon 58mm f/1.4G IS.

 

[mb66energy]

My question is this: for all those of you that know what I'd ideally want -- a compact (and not necessarily face-meltingly sharp) 50 f/1.4 IS USM like the 35 f/2 IS -- what happens if the next new 50 is an L like the 85 f/1.4L IS?

Such a lens will likely be too big for me. I want a compact double gauss lens.

Seeing as it might be last new 50 we get for 5-10 years after that f/1.4L IS is announced, do I cave and get the f/1.2L because it's still relatively compact? Do I except all of it's flaws (finnicky AF, non-flat field, really a specialty tool for wide open shooting) or wait even longer for a non-L replacement?

- A

Count me in - we discussed it in another thread some days ago. I really liked the FD 1.4 50 S.S.C. chrome ring lens which gave contrasty and sharp images - at least with Kodachrome 25 - in the old film days. It performs very well from f/2.8 on the EOS M.

It is not stabilized and has no AF but maybe a 2nd hand S*** S7ii would be a good companion with sensor IS (if that works with such a lens) or I will give it to lens doctor in UK for a FD - EOS conversion. Well: Without IS and AF but VERY compact and light. And I own this lens for ca. 3 decades ... I like anachronisms.