What’s next from Canon?

Bob Howland

EOS 7D MK II
Mar 25, 2012
443
46
As you see it, the ‘professional APS-C mirrorless market’ has little or nothing to do with the presence or absence of a mirror. Seriously, that’s a textbook oxymoron.
Yes, and quite deliberate. If a case can be made for a professional APS-C DSLR and the professional user needs more than 10FPS, then a case can be made for a professional APSC MILC. My 7D tops out at 8FPS because that has proven fast enough for my needs.

A mirror means an OVF, no lag for tracking a subject, no constant drain on the battery to look through the VF. Perhaps you should ask ask all those photographers who make money with their 7d2 and if they think a mirrorless camera would meet their needs as well as their DSLR.
Those arguments also apply to FF professional cameras. Are you planning on keeping your 1Dx forever?

Do you think puerile name-calling like that adds value to the forum? All it really does is demonstrate your immaturity.
Pot, meet kettle.
 
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Travel_Photographer

Travel, Landscape, Architecture
Aug 30, 2019
28
27
Does anyone really want a camera without a built in viewfinder? If you can’t wait to upgrade your gear you’ll just go ahead and buy the M6 Mark ii now with a clunky detachable viewfinder that you obviously can’t simultaneously use with the hot shoe.

Does anyone really want to go without a viewfinder on anything more advanced than a cell phone or a point and shoot, or have a detachable one kicking around?

No, you want the M5 Mark ii because it’s just more elegant and functional to have it integrated.
I definitely want a camera without a viewfinder. I have other Canon cameras with viewfinders for when that's necessary. In the M6 line, I'm looking for the absolute smallest, lightest APS-C camera I can possibly get with physical dials and controls for use when I need to travel super-light. When recording video, which a huge portion of M6 users use their cameras for, it's much easier to use the screen than a viewfinder, and probably most importantly, I use my M6 on a gimbal, which you obviously wouldn't use a viewfinder for, and the viewfinder would get in the way of the gimbal movements (in the manual for my gimbal, it literally calls out the M5's viewfinder as being a physical obstruction to the proper functioning of the gimbal).

I totally get that for lots of people the integrated viewfinder is important. But for many people, the fact that it is not there is equally as important. Canon clearly sees that since they upgraded the M6, not the M5.
 
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neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,610
2,072
Yes, and quite deliberate. If a case can be made for a professional APS-C DSLR and the professional user needs more than 10FPS, then a case can be made for a professional APSC MILC. My 7D tops out at 8FPS because that has proven fast enough for my needs.
I’m not saying a case cannot be made for a professional APS-C MILC. I’m saying the market for that is currently minuscule. You’re claiming the markets for pro APS-C DSLRs and MILCs are identical, clearly they’re not.

Those arguments also apply to FF professional cameras. Are you planning on keeping your 1Dx forever?
I have an EOS R and it fails to meet my needs for action photography.

Pot, meet kettle.
I characterize people’s actions, such as your petulant behavior. Your name-calling is rude and inappropriate, and reflects poorly on your character.
 

Drcampbellicu

EOS T7i
Jul 31, 2019
50
32
Wild guess: The M5II will move upmarket, become about RP size and effectively be the 7D3. It will be introduced more or less simultaneously with the fully professional R-mount camera late in 2019 or very early in 2020.
You might be right
Which sucks for me
The m series just isn’t for me
 

criscokkat

EOS RP
Sep 26, 2017
266
233
Madison, WI
I’m not saying a case cannot be made for a professional APS-C MILC. I’m saying the market for that is currently minuscule. You’re claiming the markets for pro APS-C DSLRs and MILCs are identical, clearly they’re not.


I have an EOS R and it fails to meet my needs for action photography.


I characterize people’s actions, such as your petulant behavior. Your name-calling is rude and inappropriate, and reflects poorly on your character.
The new firmware update will help with the focus tracking some but it won’t increase the 5fps while doing so. :(
 

Stig Nygaard

7DII & G5XII
Jul 10, 2013
11
7
Copenhagen
www.flickr.com
My wishes are simple...

While waiting for mirrorless technology to mature (I'm not convinced it is ready to replace 7D/1Dx type of cameras yet):

1) 7D Mark III

and then when technology are ready and a broader selection of lenses has become available:

2) APS-C R-mount camera and lenses (APS-C because of size, weight and prices of lenses - and camera. R-mount because if I have to change, I want an advanced, high-performance and "future-proof" mount)

Okay, I guess I'm doomed :-/
 
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Sharlin

EOS 6D MK II
Dec 26, 2015
1,061
559
Turku, Finland
While waiting for mirrorless technology to mature (I'm not convinced it is ready to replace 7D/1Dx type of cameras yet):
Actually this makes me more inclined to think that we might indeed see a high-performance APS-C R body sooner rather than later, and that there will not be a 7D3. It would be an excellent technological stepping stone and a proof of concept for the eventual flagship FF R body. Most of the pieces of the puzzle are there now:
  • DPAF is probably better at tracking than any of Canon's discrete PDAF systems, and functions down to f/11 and -5 EV (at f/1.2)
  • 32 Mpix * 14 fps already exceeds the 1DX2 throughput by 50% and 7D2 throughput by over 100%
  • The 30fps 18Mpix RAW burst mode with continuous AF is ludicrous and should make any action shooter drool
  • EVFs are starting to be really really good, and VF blackout/lag when continuous shooting is improved a lot albeit still not there
  • Exposure simulation basically amounts to night vision when shooting in dark conditions
  • Fewer moving parts prone to breakage
The main hurdle to overcome is almost certainly battery life and the fact that you can't even frame a shot without consuming power. Maybe a rangefinder-style hybrid VF à la Fuji might be the solution…
 
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HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
454
49
On a technological basis all this bickering is pointless because this is all very much like the fairly fast switch-over from CRT (Cathode Ray Tube) television to FLATSCREEN LCD, LED and OLED HD television, where a newcomer technology (diode or plasma-based displays) simply STEAMROLLED over everyone else with a newer, better-looking, more economical and easier to manufacture technology.

And in the case of DSLR's and Mirrorless Interchangeable lens cameras, THEY are going to be utterly STEAMROLLED into niche applications by large sensor super-smartphones! Now that i've had two of them in my hands PERSONALLY for the last little while, I can see why Canon's Rebel, 7D-series, M-series and even 5D/1D series AND Nikon's D5/D850/Z6/Z7 series will be OBLITERATED soon enough by fully mirrorless, GLOBAL SHUTTER large sensored (2/3rds inch, M4/3rds and APS-C) all-in-one smartphone devices!

The combination of computational photography software AND large global shutter sensors AND Android-based large-memory-storage super-smartphones KILLS that DSLR and even Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera market dead! We all KNOW Canon and Nikon ARE coming out eventually with MIRRORLESS Canon Pro-level 5D/1D and Nikon D5/Zx series cameras and THEY WILL DO VERY WELL financially because THOSE brands are what the pros trust and will CONTINUE to buy and use! However, for John and Jane Q. Public, everything else in their camera lines is toast because of these new all-in-one super-smartphones which offer bigger bang-for-the-buck in a SINGLE device!

The MILC at the lower end is dead in the water because on these new super-smartphones, I can put different lenses on them with a simple addition of a plastic/metal cage that has a removeable SSD storage compartment and lens attachment accessory which costs less than $250 US !!! I can use these large-sensor smartphones as-is but if I want more than the 2x optical zoom and extra image-stabilization, I will PRO-ertize my new super-smartphone with this extra $250 cage accessory cage which allows me to switch out various prime or zoom lenses, put in bigger batteries and add more storage capacity! What's NOT to like about that?

For the NEWLY graduated videographer and budget filmmaker, the super-smartphones will take over from the 7D and M-series cameras and for the pros, they will buy a mirrorless version of the 1Dx3. The Hollywood cinema user will get the NEW upcoming 65mm/70mm sensor medium format 8K 16-bits per RGB channel 60 fps mirrorless global shutter cameras! Mom, Dad and Siblings will buy the lower-end versions of these super-smartphones and call it a day using just the built-in 35mm lens AND using them for doing typical smartphone activities such as phones calls and internet access!

.
.

So Remember, YOU READ IT HERE FIRST !!!

.
 
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rjbray01

Canon Forever
Jan 19, 2017
132
74
On a technological basis all this bickering is pointless because this is all very much like the fairly fast switch-over from CRT (Cathode Ray Tube) television to FLATSCREEN LCD, LED and OLED HD television, where a newcomer technology (diode or plasma-based displays) simply STEAMROLLED over everyone else with a newer, better-looking, more economical and easier to manufacture technology.

And in the case of DSLR's and Mirrorless Interchangeable lens cameras, THEY are going to be utterly STEAMROLLED into niche applications by large sensor super-smartphones! Now that i've had two of them in my hands PERSONALLY for the last little while, I can see why Canon's Rebel, 7D-series, M-series and even 5D/1D series AND Nikon's D5/D850/Z6/Z7 series will be OBLITERATED soon enough by fully mirrorless, GLOBAL SHUTTER large sensored (2/3rds inch, M4/3rds and APS-C) all-in-one smartphone devices!

The combination of computational photography software AND large global shutter sensors AND Android-based large-memory-storage super-smartphones KILLS that DSLR and even Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera market dead! We all KNOW Canon and Nikon ARE coming out eventually with MIRRORLESS Canon Pro-level 5D/1D and Nikon D5/Zx series cameras and THEY WILL DO VERY WELL financially because THOSE brands are what the pros trust and will CONTINUE to buy and use! However, for John and Jane Q. Public, everything else in their camera lines is toast because of these new all-in-one super-smartphones which offer bigger bang-for-the-buck in a SINGLE device!

The MILC at the lower end is dead in the water because on these new super-smartphones, I can put different lenses on them with a simple addition of a plastic/metal cage that has a removeable SSD storage compartment and lens attachment accessory which costs less than $250 US !!! I can use these large-sensor smartphones as-is but if I want more than the 2x optical zoom and extra image-stabilization, I will PRO-ertize my new super-smartphone with this extra $250 cage accessory cage which allows me to switch out various prime or zoom lenses, put in bigger batteries and add more storage capacity! What's NOT to like about that?

For the NEWLY graduated videographer and budget filmmaker, the super-smartphones will take over from the 7D and M-series cameras and for the pros, they will buy a mirrorless version of the 1Dx3. The Hollywood cinema user will get the NEW upcoming 65mm/70mm sensor medium format 8K 16-bits per RGB channel 60 fps mirrorless global shutter cameras! Mom, Dad and Siblings will buy the lower-end versions of these super-smartphones and call it a day using just the built-in 35mm lens AND using them for doing typical smartphone activities such as phones calls and internet access!

.
.

So Remember, YOU READ IT HERE FIRST !!!

.
you forgot a few other important technologies ... which will destroy the entire DSLR and Mirrorless camera market

1. 5G ...

Allows phones to connect to hyper-powerful computational photography software running in the cloud

2. Google / Microsoft / Apple glasses ...

When coupled with the sort of uber-smart-phone-camera you are outlining, this should solve the problems of not being able to see the back of the screen on a bright summer's day - the glasses will become your viewfinder

3. brain implants

Obviously we are all on the edge of our seats for these ... allowing us brain-activated total recall of all our photographs and videos just like in Black Mirror
 
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sdz

EOS RP
Sep 13, 2016
236
137
Pittsburgh, PA
you forgot a few other important technologies ... which will destroy the entire DSLR and Mirrorless camera market

{snip}

3. brain implants

Obviously we are all on the edge of our seats for these ... allowing us brain-activated total recall of all our photographs and videos just like in Black Mirror
{emphasis added}
[ /QUOTE]

It's a good thing that modern operating systems do not crash every hour. A direct link to one's brain would make GPFs events akin to a grand mal seizure!
 
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rbielefeld

EOS T7i
Apr 22, 2015
76
130
My wishes are simple...

While waiting for mirrorless technology to mature (I'm not convinced it is ready to replace 7D/1Dx type of cameras yet):

1) 7D Mark III

and then when technology are ready and a broader selection of lenses has become available:

2) APS-C R-mount camera and lenses (APS-C because of size, weight and prices of lenses - and camera. R-mount because if I have to change, I want an advanced, high-performance and "future-proof" mount)

Okay, I guess I'm doomed :-/
Mirrorless is getting really close to matching 1Dx type performance. I have been a Canon shooter since I was a kid, and I am now in my 50's. I shoot mostly birds in flight and other fast action. For me the 1DxII is the best bird in flight camera I have ever had the pleasure to shoot. But, if you have a chance, try a Sony a9. I now have one that I am shooting side by side with my 1DxII both with Sony and adapted Canon glass (e.g., Sony 200-600 and 400 2.8 with and without teleconverters and Canon 100-400 and 600 f/4 with and without teleconverters). The a9's performance is right up there with the 1DxII; very capable. No blackout EVF is pretty amazing as is the tracking AF. It is actually easier to track a BIF with the Sony because there is no 'stop action' affect from a flipping mirror as in the 1DxII. Overall, I would say the Sony a9 is very close and the soon to be announced a9II; well who knows. Me, I love all the innovation coming out from all the manufactures. It is a great time to be a photographer IMO.
 

Eagle Eye

EOS 80D
Jul 5, 2011
176
2
Virginia
I think if Canon wants a real presence in the mirrorless APSc market they need to come out with a higher end model that exceeds the M5 and now the M6 II. From what I read the M5 wasn’t the best construction, not a metal body and just not up to the typical Canon standards. I’m not saying it isn’t a good camera. Im still it is and many people like it. I just think that they should up their game a bit more in that market. Also add more faster, pro grade M lenses. I am not in the APSc mirrorless camp yet, but would be interested in adding a higher end Canon APSc mirrorless to my current 5DIV.
The one native EF-M lens I feel I'm missing is a 53mm f/1.8. I'm using either a Rokinon 50mm manual focus or the EF 50mm STM now. Both are good, but I'd love to have a native lens with the same filter diameter as the EF-M 32mm. As for M5 construction - I generally agree that it feels less expensive, but I've had mine for nearly three years and it's seen minor water exposure and a few light impacts and has held up well. It seems to be tougher than it feels, but feel does matter.
 

Hector1970

EOS 6D MK II
Mar 22, 2012
1,094
272
And in the case of DSLR's and Mirrorless Interchangeable lens cameras, THEY are going to be utterly STEAMROLLED into niche applications by large sensor super-smartphones! Now that i've had two of them in my hands PERSONALLY for the last little while, I can see why Canon's Rebel, 7D-series, M-series and even 5D/1D series AND Nikon's D5/D850/Z6/Z7 series will be OBLITERATED soon enough by fully mirrorless, GLOBAL SHUTTER large sensored (2/3rds inch, M4/3rds and APS-C) all-in-one smartphone devices!

The combination of computational photography software AND large global shutter sensors AND Android-based large-memory-storage super-smartphones KILLS that DSLR and even Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera market dead! We all KNOW Canon and Nikon ARE coming out eventually with MIRRORLESS Canon Pro-level 5D/1D and Nikon D5/Zx series cameras and THEY WILL DO VERY WELL financially because THOSE brands are what the pros trust and will CONTINUE to buy and use! However, for John and Jane Q. Public, everything else in their camera lines is toast because of these new all-in-one super-smartphones which offer bigger bang-for-the-buck in a SINGLE device!

The MILC at the lower end is dead in the water because on these new super-smartphones, I can put different lenses on them with a simple addition of a plastic/metal cage that has a removeable SSD storage compartment and lens attachment accessory which costs less than $250 US !!! I can use these large-sensor smartphones as-is but if I want more than the 2x optical zoom and extra image-stabilization, I will PRO-ertize my new super-smartphone with this extra $250 cage accessory cage which allows me to switch out various prime or zoom lenses, put in bigger batteries and add more storage capacity! What's NOT to like about that?



.
.

So Remember, YOU READ IT HERE FIRST !!!

.
Harry you always liven up the discussion. I've love to know if you sincerely believe all you write as much of it is from fantasy land.
That doesn't mean you are always wrong.
Smart phones are becoming quite excellent and for most people they are very adequate for the job.
The computational photography is very clever. Video is especially good on phones.
I think 1 inch sensors and micro 4/3 gooses are cooked as phones can easily reach their level.
Multiple lens probably bring APS-C in range but I think they will continue to be the foundation level camera of amateur photographers.
Camera phones will be able to make great snaps but great photography needs a little more.
It will be a while before full frame is endangered. It might survive until brain implants take over.
I hope my storage device will be adequate for these brain implants. Already my optical drive is starting to malfunction leading to focusing issues.
i hope this is not a sign of future memory failures. I'll need all the storage capacity possible for the brain implants.
 
Sep 6, 2018
2
2
Down the road I'd like to see an M5 with an extended life battery or a battery pack. I have used my M5 for travel and city-scapes and have had great results with three M Lenses and a Sigma 18-300mm. The M6 II is interesting but I like a built in EVF. I also have an 80D which I use for wildlife and landscapes with a 70-200mm and 100-400mm. I have pre-ordered a 90D for the enhanced features.
 
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stevelee

FT-QL
Jul 6, 2017
1,252
283
Davidson, NC
Maybe you should ask all those photographers who (1) make money with their 7d2 and (2) are routinely focal length limited. 32 MP APS-C scales up to 82mp FF, but with that many pixels, getting 20 FPS might get expensive.

I didn't quote your needlessly insulting comments.
I have made more money using my T3i than from all of my other digital cameras combined. So obviously Canon abandoned the pro market when they discontinued that model.
 

Dragon

EOS M50
May 29, 2019
38
28
Maybe canon is waiting on the 1D X mk3 as the product to launch IBIS in their DSLR lineup. Then maybe potentially a 7d3 with ibis a few months later in late 2020? Then in 2021 a 5d5? I'm just thinking that canon wouldn't waste developing ibis technology to only put it in the 1d line and a 7d seems like a fitting candidate for it. Then again numerous signs point to the 7d line being dead so it's rather confusing lol.
I can't see where IBIS is of that much use on 1DX. the camera is primarily used for sports with long glass that already has multi-mode IS and IBIS is beyond useless for panning shots. If the RS (or whatever it gets called uses the same pixel pitch as the 90D, it will be 83 MP and an awesome camera for portrait and wedding work. That camera will be used with standard and short tele primes with big apertures and it will need all the IS it can get, so I think that is the first place you will see IBIS.