What Do You Want To See in the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV?

vscd

5DC
Jan 12, 2013
433
0
Germany
Those are worthy things to add/improve. But you're not providing evidence for the earlier claim that removing video lowers price. (Apologies if you weren't saying that).
I didn't claim that removing video lowers the price, but it takes away a lot of resources on development. Most people seem to think that if they invest 2000$ into a cam those 2000$ are all in the body. That's not true... the component are worth something around 300-400$, maybe more, maybe less. The rest is profit, and much more important it's the cost of developing the whole device. Add some licenses for the codecs, too. So, if you fiddle around for 3 Months in a team of 4 engineers just to get your Log2 Codec working is something which takes the price of the cam to a higher level. Because the paycheck of those 4 engineers has to be payed.

At the same time (for stills) more important features are blocked or postpones on the schedule. People tend toward the swiss army knife where every feature is available. Afterwards they pay twice the price for having features on it they barely use. My videocams are totally different devices, if you seriously want to film something the whole way tro hold the body is wrong with DSLRs. So, the first thing pro's attach are useable grids ;)

What people want: http://tinyurl.com/o3j36a8
What I want: http://tinyurl.com/occwqo7

;D
 

3kramd5

EOS 5D MK IV
Mar 2, 2012
3,083
404
[quote author=LetTheRightLensIn]
* higher price than a pure stills camera -> see Sony A7 vs. A7S. I want a lower cost, stills-centric 5D model.
I don't know much about the A7, but is it really the exact same, but minus video?

[/quote]

No. They have significantly different sensors. The 7 is 24MP FF. The S is 12MP FF, and carries the tremendous low light advantages. Also, the 7 does shoot video.

Before you go too far down this rabbit hole, recall that he wants the 5Dmk4 to ship with a mount incompatible with all previous 5D cameras (and all existing canon lenses), and he wants a new line of lenses to ship without focus rings. So...
 

scyrene

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 4, 2013
2,507
393
UK
www.flickr.com
vscd said:
Those are worthy things to add/improve. But you're not providing evidence for the earlier claim that removing video lowers price. (Apologies if you weren't saying that).
I didn't claim that removing video lowers the price, but it takes away a lot of resources on development. Most people seem to think that if they invest 2000$ into a cam those 2000$ are all in the body. That's not true... the component are worth something around 300-400$, maybe more, maybe less. The rest is profit, and much more important it's the cost of developing the whole device. Add some licenses for the codecs, too. So, if you fiddle around for 3 Months in a team of 4 engineers just to get your Log2 Codec working is something which takes the price of the cam to a higher level. Because the paycheck of those 4 engineers has to be payed.

At the same time (for stills) more important features are blocked or postpones on the schedule. People tend toward the swiss army knife where every feature is available. Afterwards they pay twice the price for having features on it they barely use. My videocams are totally different devices, if you seriously want to film something the whole way tro hold the body is wrong with DSLRs. So, the first thing pro's attach are useable grids ;)

What people want: http://tinyurl.com/o3j36a8
What I want: http://tinyurl.com/occwqo7

;D
I'm not sure it's as simple as that, but hopefully others who understand the development process can enlighten us. And I return to the point that, a more generalist device ought to sell to more people, thereby lowering the price - or at least offsetting any extra development costs.

A good chef's knife is much better for chopping vegetables, but if I were stuck in the wilderness, I think I'd prefer the Swiss army knife :p
 

Takingshots

Eos R
Feb 6, 2015
80
2
Better than Sony A7R II and Nikon 800 with swivel screen, 4K, dual card slot, low light performance, excellent dynamic range, all around usability camera at a price low $3,000. Can you do that or you may lose more customers switching over ... not only to camera bodies but also the lens market. Sony is ramping up their lens offering ...
 

unfocused

EOS 5D SR
Jul 20, 2010
4,993
1,348
66
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
Just a note to all those people who insist people are dumping Canon for Sony.

I just got back from a weekend at Horicon National Wildlife Refuge in Wisconsin. Took a birding boat tour. There were maybe two Nikons on the boat and everyone else who had a camera had a Canon. The wife of one of the Nikon shooters had a Canon.

Elsewhere throughout the trip, I saw maybe one other Nikon and all the rest were Canons. At one point, we stopped by the roadside to photograph a Whooping Crane. I think I counted six people with 100-400 "L" zooms (original, not the new model). Including one couple who each had one. Maybe one other person had a Nikon with zoom. Earlier in the day, there was a fellow there shooting with a Canon 400 DO.

I never saw a single Sony.

Of course this is not a controlled survey of any sort, but let's just say that from observation, I didn't see the alleged migration to Sony that so many people claim is occurring. This was a bright, sunny day, so it would seem that Sony's alleged superiority in dynamic range should have drawn these photographers to their brand. But, that sure wasn't the case. In fact, I was a little stunned at the high percentage of Canons and the number of DSLRs visible.
 

Hillsilly

EOS 6D MK II
Oct 16, 2010
1,096
0
I'm not surprised that there were only DSLRs on a birding boat tour. Trying to track birds in flight with a mirrorless camera is difficult and frustrating. So, if you're serious about shooting wildlife, then you'd be opting for the gear that's going to work with you, not against you.

If a 5DIV had the following, I'd give it serious thought: -

- Advanced in-camera macro focus stacking capabilities that allows you to configure the focus adjustments without having to touch your lens.
- Ability to set a shutter speed longer than 30s without having to plug an additional accessory in.
- Ability to preview bulb mode longer exposures as they are captured on the LCD.
- Electronic shutter for silent operation (and high fps when silent and faster shutter speeds).
- Eye focusing (ie it automatically focuses on your subject's eye)

As a focusing aid, I'd love to have an EVF option in addition to the OVF (a la Fuji X100/X-Pro1). At the press of a button, the OVF is replaced with an EVF that would allow you to magnify the image and allow precise focusing. Might be a bit too much to ask for.
 

WIDEnet

Where does this go? Oh, that's where.
Jan 23, 2015
41
0
Hillsilly said:
- Advanced in-camera macro focus stacking capabilities that allows you to configure the focus adjustments without having to touch your lens.
- Ability to set a shutter speed longer than 30s without having to plug an additional accessory in.
- Electronic shutter for silent operation (and high fps when silent and faster shutter speeds).
FYI you can already get these three today with most recent Canon bodies, including the 5DII and III, with Magic Lateran. Also, while it has some tradeoffs and a shot noise-limited ("ISO-independent") sensor for the 5DIV is still my biggest priority outside the small stuff, ML Dual ISO essentially does gives you similar DR as a D800 sensor in a single exposure, with the tradeoffs being a more complex workflow and reduced detail in the extreme highlights and shadows (where the DR range doesn't overlap).

And a bit of a correction to CanonRumors, the reason that the 1D had such high sync speeds (can be hacked to go faster than 1/500) as well as max shutter speeds (1/16000) is not really the type of sensor, but the fact that it uses an electronic rather than a manual shutter (though the global shutter of CCDs did contribute to this choice, both types of sensors can be used with electronic shutter, and some CMOS chips now can do global shutter).
 
Nov 10, 2014
6
0
Dual Pixel video AF, an enlarged buffer (don't care about frame rate), a moderate increase in MP, an increase in DR . . . AND . . an ARTICULATING TOUCH SCREEN. Prepare for a rant - this is NOT an amateur feature. Landscape photography or night sky photographers know that with low angled shots an articulating screen is beyond convenient - this is just fact. It allows you to frame shots without having to lie on the ground, or worse on the sand, surf or whatever. In the case of astrophotography on a tripod it saves from having to bend down to see the screen of how an exposure came out. This is just common sense. The excuse Canon used on the 7DMII about not including it b/c of durability is BS. Put some gorilla glass on it and a strong hinge and call it a day. And don't even get me started on how useful it is to change focus with a touchscreen when shooting video with the dual pixel video AF video capability - the oversight of that on the 7DMII was mind-blowing considering that sports shooters so often want to shoot video.

The only thing I can surmise is that Canon intentionally did not put the articulating touch screen on the 7DMII in order to ensure it was ONLY a sports still shooting camera and not a versatile camera. Admittedly form their executives the stated goal of their new body strategy is to create supremely-specialized cameras - ostensibly in order to create cameras which better fit the needs of the user, but with the somewhat obvious cloak-and-dagger side affect of forcing all of us to buy twice as many bodies as we otherwise would. With mirrorless cameras and in-phone cameras growing in popularity they are smart enough to know that most DSLR users are specialized photographers and thus often willing to shell out for extra gear. Excluding basic features that are present in $500 rebel cameras on more advanced semi-pro bodies is downright insulting to their clients. Hopefully the 5DMKIV will continue the trend of being a capable jack of all trades FF with some increased image quality, but I'm not holding my breath. Let's just say I've been holding off buying any canon glass for a while.
 

AudioGlenn

EOS RP
Aug 9, 2012
353
0
40
Irvine, CA
Zv said:
wyldeguy said:
eyeland said:
EC in M mode
I still don't fully understand why people ask for this. You are already in M mode. You have full control of your exposure, just change one part of the triangle and you're good. Back in film days that's what you had to do. And in most cases you didn't change the iso, so it was shutter or aperture or you just lived with a sub-optimal meter reading and then corrected in the darkroom. I mean the M is for manual. If you want the camera to compensate for you not doing your part then put it in another mode.

Sorry for being a little cranky
It's for when you use auto ISO in M mode. The camera seems to always expose a bit under and if you want to ETTR then you have to keep adjusting the ISO yourself. In a environment where you want control over the aperture AND shutter speed but ISO can be whatever (especially nowadays where high ISO noise seems to be negligible) you can use auto ISO to get the correct exposure but I still prefer to overexposed slightly so EC would tell the camera to use a slightly higher ISO than what it normally would.

In reality though I can easily fix this digitally in post but it's nice to get the exposure right in camera.
Such a simple fix for this already guys. shoot in Av but lock you shutter speed to your desired setting in the Menu. Auto ISO works as requested. No need for Auto ISO in Manual mode....Manual means FULLY manual.
 

scyrene

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 4, 2013
2,507
393
UK
www.flickr.com
AudioGlenn said:
Zv said:
wyldeguy said:
eyeland said:
EC in M mode
I still don't fully understand why people ask for this. You are already in M mode. You have full control of your exposure, just change one part of the triangle and you're good. Back in film days that's what you had to do. And in most cases you didn't change the iso, so it was shutter or aperture or you just lived with a sub-optimal meter reading and then corrected in the darkroom. I mean the M is for manual. If you want the camera to compensate for you not doing your part then put it in another mode.

Sorry for being a little cranky
It's for when you use auto ISO in M mode. The camera seems to always expose a bit under and if you want to ETTR then you have to keep adjusting the ISO yourself. In a environment where you want control over the aperture AND shutter speed but ISO can be whatever (especially nowadays where high ISO noise seems to be negligible) you can use auto ISO to get the correct exposure but I still prefer to overexposed slightly so EC would tell the camera to use a slightly higher ISO than what it normally would.

In reality though I can easily fix this digitally in post but it's nice to get the exposure right in camera.
Such a simple fix for this already guys. shoot in Av but lock you shutter speed to your desired setting in the Menu. Auto ISO works as requested. No need for Auto ISO in Manual mode....Manual means FULLY manual.
But doesn't the 1Dx have the feature he's asking for? If so, there must be a (perceived) need for it.
 
Sep 29, 2015
6
0
Native RAW video recording and/or 4k video recording please. With the GH4 coming in at a lower price point and already doing 4k, the 5d mk.3 has lost a bit of it's cache as the leading filmmaking tool for it's price range. I still think the general look of it beats out GH4's video-y feel, but it's minor and an argument can be made that 4k makes it worth it.

If 4k is a no-go I'd be happy with internal RAW video that cuts down on the absolutely ridiculous filesizes that result from Magic Lantern, if that's even possible. The image quality from RAW is insane and blows away a GH4 at 4k, but it's unrealistic for any real production work.
 

quod

EOS RP
Dec 3, 2013
216
0
Hillsilly said:
I'd love to have an EVF option in addition to the OVF (a la Fuji X100/X-Pro1).
This will be a killer feature for Canon and Nikon, if they would just implement it. I often shoot bald eagles in changing light conditions. This feature alone would save me a lot of headaches when I shoot manual.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,610
2,072
scyrene said:
AudioGlenn said:
Zv said:
wyldeguy said:
eyeland said:
EC in M mode
I still don't fully understand why people ask for this. You are already in M mode. You have full control of your exposure, just change one part of the triangle and you're good. Back in film days that's what you had to do. And in most cases you didn't change the iso, so it was shutter or aperture or you just lived with a sub-optimal meter reading and then corrected in the darkroom. I mean the M is for manual. If you want the camera to compensate for you not doing your part then put it in another mode.

Sorry for being a little cranky
It's for when you use auto ISO in M mode. The camera seems to always expose a bit under and if you want to ETTR then you have to keep adjusting the ISO yourself. In a environment where you want control over the aperture AND shutter speed but ISO can be whatever (especially nowadays where high ISO noise seems to be negligible) you can use auto ISO to get the correct exposure but I still prefer to overexposed slightly so EC would tell the camera to use a slightly higher ISO than what it normally would.

In reality though I can easily fix this digitally in post but it's nice to get the exposure right in camera.
Such a simple fix for this already guys. shoot in Av but lock you shutter speed to your desired setting in the Menu. Auto ISO works as requested. No need for Auto ISO in Manual mode....Manual means FULLY manual.
But doesn't the 1Dx have the feature he's asking for? If so, there must be a (perceived) need for it.
It does, and I use it frequently.
 

Eldar

EOS 5D MK IV
Jan 14, 2013
3,247
0
www.flickr.com
neuroanatomist said:
scyrene said:
AudioGlenn said:
Zv said:
wyldeguy said:
eyeland said:
EC in M mode
I still don't fully understand why people ask for this. You are already in M mode. You have full control of your exposure, just change one part of the triangle and you're good. Back in film days that's what you had to do. And in most cases you didn't change the iso, so it was shutter or aperture or you just lived with a sub-optimal meter reading and then corrected in the darkroom. I mean the M is for manual. If you want the camera to compensate for you not doing your part then put it in another mode.

Sorry for being a little cranky
It's for when you use auto ISO in M mode. The camera seems to always expose a bit under and if you want to ETTR then you have to keep adjusting the ISO yourself. In a environment where you want control over the aperture AND shutter speed but ISO can be whatever (especially nowadays where high ISO noise seems to be negligible) you can use auto ISO to get the correct exposure but I still prefer to overexposed slightly so EC would tell the camera to use a slightly higher ISO than what it normally would.

In reality though I can easily fix this digitally in post but it's nice to get the exposure right in camera.
Such a simple fix for this already guys. shoot in Av but lock you shutter speed to your desired setting in the Menu. Auto ISO works as requested. No need for Auto ISO in Manual mode....Manual means FULLY manual.
But doesn't the 1Dx have the feature he's asking for? If so, there must be a (perceived) need for it.
It does, and I use it frequently.
+1
It is a very important feature to have.
 

yoms

EOS M50
Jul 4, 2012
35
5
Are there pro photographers here that are actually asked their opinion by Canon on what are their perceived limitations of the 5DIII and their expectations for a 5DIV?
 

rs

EOS 6D MK II
Dec 29, 2012
1,024
0
UK
Eldar said:
neuroanatomist said:
scyrene said:
AudioGlenn said:
Zv said:
wyldeguy said:
eyeland said:
EC in M mode
I still don't fully understand why people ask for this. You are already in M mode. You have full control of your exposure, just change one part of the triangle and you're good. Back in film days that's what you had to do. And in most cases you didn't change the iso, so it was shutter or aperture or you just lived with a sub-optimal meter reading and then corrected in the darkroom. I mean the M is for manual. If you want the camera to compensate for you not doing your part then put it in another mode.

Sorry for being a little cranky
It's for when you use auto ISO in M mode. The camera seems to always expose a bit under and if you want to ETTR then you have to keep adjusting the ISO yourself. In a environment where you want control over the aperture AND shutter speed but ISO can be whatever (especially nowadays where high ISO noise seems to be negligible) you can use auto ISO to get the correct exposure but I still prefer to overexposed slightly so EC would tell the camera to use a slightly higher ISO than what it normally would.

In reality though I can easily fix this digitally in post but it's nice to get the exposure right in camera.
Such a simple fix for this already guys. shoot in Av but lock you shutter speed to your desired setting in the Menu. Auto ISO works as requested. No need for Auto ISO in Manual mode....Manual means FULLY manual.
But doesn't the 1Dx have the feature he's asking for? If so, there must be a (perceived) need for it.
It does, and I use it frequently.
+1
It is a very important feature to have.
The 7D2 and 5Ds have this feature, so it's fairly safe to assume that the 5D4 will have it too.
 

TAF

EOS RP
Feb 26, 2012
343
33
High speed video (meaning slow motion capability).

Even an iPhone can shoot 240 fps; my multi-thousand dollar DSLR should be able to do at least that, and preferably more.

This to me is a major marketing oversight. Look at the secondary sales market for the Casio EX-F1 (they sell now for more than they did new).
 
Oct 1, 2015
1
0
For me, dynamic range would be the most valuable improvement. Secondly, I don't like the idea of putting so much emphasis on the VIDEO performance of a STILL camera, especially when Canon already makes excellent units for video. I understand the convenience/cost issue for some, but at the end of the day, I prefer a specialized tool that can do one thing exceptionally well (better than anyone else) vs a jack of all trades that can't. Another improvement that Canon could consider is related to DLA. With so much emphasis on pixel quantity over the last few years, the resulting pixel density on sensors has reduced the use of small f/stops and their valued DOF. Considering that most users are not creating images intended for billboards, less pixels allows for improvements in dynamic range as well as DLA. On a last note, I would like to see Canon develop an excellent app for the Ipad, allowing us to control all camera settings and make adjustments on the fly. It could even allow tethering/bluetooth for any adjustments. Let's face it, the 3 inch screen on the back of ANY dslr is important to have as a quick reference but, it can't compete with the versatility of an Ipad or Ipad mini.