What Do You Want to See in the EOS M System?

[rrcphoto]

What I want to see is more native lenses at the least a 35mm f1.2 image stabilised and a 50mm 1.4 image stabilised lens also a 15mm to 35mm f2.8 or a 15mm to 85mm f4 both image stabilised. But I can't see it happening because this would cut into the more profitable top end lens territory and would hit sales of these lenses.

ummm sure. why not ask for a purple unicorn to hand deliver them to you as well?

what you are asking for IS top end lenses, do you think canon's going to make those and the 5-7 years of R&D it takes to take a lens from conception to production and sell it at a loss for $399?

 

[rrcphoto]

neuro I don´t see it like that. How successful is it, when it needs to go total firesale to get sold, and second iteration doesn´t even get into USA?

people keep bringing this up.

ALL MILC's get discounted to sell. Olympus has been selling boatloads of E-PL6 kits for 65% off in japan for the entire freaking year.

Japan is very price / sale conscious. which is probably why canon made the M10.

and btw, who the heck thinks that USA is a factor as far a mirrorless anyways?

 

[archiea]

14 pages! not so bad for such a "failed" system...

pretty amazing how polarizing the M line has been for canon.

As far as what I want for the M4 or future M's?

In short: the fuji xt-1.

Spwcifically:

1) Form factor: I love the current M3 form factor: nice balance of size and grip. Ergonomics is one of canon's strengths

2) button layout. Currently the m3's button layout is optimized for LCD viewing not evf viewing Meaning when one is viewing thru the evf, they have to almost relive their grip of the camera to reach buttons like the magnify button. They also have to switch to LCD to change the position of the AF area if they aren't in face tracking mode. This seems easy enough as a firmware fix int he current M3, i.e. if in evf mode, then the D pad becomes the focus point selector/mover.

Also, make the current MFN button be programable to both engage the magnify if in manual focus or be the AF button if in Auto Focus AND the AF button set to be not engaged with he shutter. Having it be programable next to the shutter is great use of the limited real estate and allows for the ability to focus and recompose (I know, bad habit) without having to move your thumb, which can affect the stability of the camera.

Also, please return the quick menu display selection to the Q button instead dog it being a cycle option with the info button. this disrupts the shoot by requiring the photographer to return their attention to which of the three display options they had up.



3) speed: even with Manual focus, there seems to be a slight delay when the shutter is depressed and engaged. so for street photography or anything where the subject is moving, if you managed to track the focus manually, the shutter seems delayed when pressed. This is perhaps the biggest contributor to the perception that the AF is slow in that the camera's reaction time to shutter input is slow as well.

4) smarts. What does this mean? smart functionality in that when someone engages the lens's manual focus, the camera engages the magnify automatically. Smart like the above mentioned that when the evf is on, the D-pad serves as the button to adjust the focus region. Also lost apparently si that when magnified, when one half presses not he shutter, the image remains zoomed. Most other canon's (and cameras in general) assumes that if you half press the shutter, you are ready to take a photo, so it returns to the viewfinder display. Also the ability to take RAW's and run an image process onto a jpg stream should be possible.

5) return the menu to more of an EOS menu and less of a powershot menu. I.e. multiple color spaces, programable Kelvin for white balance, Also lens corrections like the 5D for jpps (it is a wifi camera after all and who wound't want profiled lens corrections in the jpgs

6) specifically: the focus peak assist should have a higher clip mode. currently the focus peaking has to broad a soft clip to make precise focusing more difficult.

7) HDMI clean out, headset out.

8) electronic shutter release ability to take fast strobe exposures, i.e. F1.4 images in full daylight.

9) pro ef-m lenses instead of an ef-s clone of lenses. I understand this will not happen since they consider the EF lens compatibility to be the solution.. However one shouldn't sacrifice the portability of the system just to take an f1.2 or f1.4 prime shot.


Well thats all I can think. thanks for sharing!

 

[piggee]

<li>Find some way to make EF lenses work like they do on a DSLR, this is the hard one.</li>

I will be ok with the FD mount for the M system and EF for EOS. Old lenses on this? It will be really great and is there new space to make and sell lot of new lenses.

 

[bf]

If M line wants to go for perfection, I can imagine of two directions that are Leica and Sony a7. I'd like to see the Leica direction. In other words, Fuji's approach with full frame sensor. Nice native wide primes. A modern body for retro style photography. Urban, street, fashion, and family may be the attractive genres I can think of.

 

[Dylan777]

I'm currently own a7rii and a7s, I just don't see myself buy another crop mirrorless system.

The AF tracking on A7rii is truly amazing as a mirrorless. At this point, I will not wait for Canon to release decent ff mirrorless anymore. I do look forward to see what Canon has to offer in near future though. Will I buy Canon ff mirrless? well, it will depend on how it performs.

 

[Ivan Muller]

Having had my M3 for the past 6 months or so I would like the following to be improved/implemented:

1. Much smaller AF points

2. Joystick to move AF points around whilst using the evf

3. Slightly bigger body to accommodate a bigger battery - perhaps in the grip.

4. 6/8 frames per second.

5. Faster AF and lock on plus subject tracking

6. Much better face recognition or even eye recognition

7. Implement a 'zone focus' system ala Leica X1/2

8.24mp is nice but I would rather have cleaner high iso images above 1600iso...so will be happy with the 20mp sensor from the 7d2, which will also probably speed up AF etc..

9. Absolutely the exact same interface, menu & buttons etc as the pro dslr's

10. Built in radio flash trigger or optical trigger rather than using the build in flash

 

[Andyx01]

1. larger camera? Heck no, make it smaller if possible. Get an SL1 if you want something larger.
2. Minimize buttons? Another big No. Camera needs more, and higher quality ones, similar to the DSLR controls.
3. Built-in EVF? No way to the EVF. Wireless display yes, headset accessory, sure, integrated EVF, yuck. Again get an SL1 if that's what you like, or purchase the accessory.
4. Full Frame? What about Medium Format? I think they need to stick with APS-C until it's more accepted. No sense digging a bigger hole.
5. Dual Pixel AF can already do this can it not?
6. More lenses, sure...

In summary, the camera should be small, thin, and robust, built like a pro series DSLR.
Do away with the cheap buttons, and focus on quality. Solid jog dial, customizable buttons that provide feedback.
Phone App with wireless display, and data bridge. Think TriggerTrap but with so much more. See what you shooting on your phone in live-view. (great for remote applications.) Hold the camera under-water, but see what your getting on your phone screen, (or headwear) etc...
Attach it to a drone, and use it as a live-view.
Open up flexibility for pro's, so they all want one. Don't just dumb down a DSLR into a chunky over-optioned pile of an existing product from 5 years ago.
Seriously, is it that hard to innovate?

 

[AvTvM]

+1 on everything, except i want a built-in top-notch 4k EVF.

 

[brad-man]

+1 on everything, except i want a built-in top-notch 4k EVF.

You can't have your built in 4k EVF and #1 on his list without Timelord technology

 

[tcmatthews]

The EOS M3 was a step in the right direction but two years late. They need to release a camera that is comparable to the next Sony A6xxx. We will likely get a camera that is a poor substitute to the current A6000. I am more interested in the rumored Sony A6100. Especially if has as good of auto focus with 3rd party adapted lenses as the A7II and A7rII.

According to Sony Rumors unconfirmed Rumored specs for A6100

• 36mp BSI sensor
• silent electronic shutter mode
• IBIS
• 4K recording
• Touchscreen

I have not decided if I am just going to ditch the EOS M or not. I will take that up when my EOS M dies. I do like the 22/2 stm.

As for a compact mirrorless camera I think m4/3 is getting close to being a better option.

 

[brad-man]

The EOS M3 was a step in the right direction but two years late. They need to release a camera that is comparable to the next Sony A6xxx. We will likely get a camera that is a poor substitute to the current A6000. I am more interested in the rumored Sony A6100. Especially if has as good of auto focus with 3rd party adapted lenses as the A7II and A7rII.

According to Sony Rumors unconfirmed Rumored specs for A6100

• 36mp BSI sensor
• silent electronic shutter mode
• IBIS
• 4K recording
• Touchscreen

I have not decided if I am just going to ditch the EOS M or not. I will take that up when my EOS M dies. I do like the 22/2 stm.

As for a compact mirrorless camera I think m4/3 is getting close to being a better option.

Yup. The A6100 sounds like the camera that will make it worthwhile to bribe the guys over at magic lantern to write some code to allow the use of my Speedlites with a Sony. And with any luck, Sigma will make lenses for it.

 

[candc]

The EOS M3 was a step in the right direction but two years late. They need to release a camera that is comparable to the next Sony A6xxx. We will likely get a camera that is a poor substitute to the current A6000. I am more interested in the rumored Sony A6100. Especially if has as good of auto focus with 3rd party adapted lenses as the A7II and A7rII.

According to Sony Rumors unconfirmed Rumored specs for A6100

• 36mp BSI sensor
• silent electronic shutter mode
• IBIS
• 4K recording
• Touchscreen

I have not decided if I am just going to ditch the EOS M or not. I will take that up when my EOS M dies. I do like the 22/2 stm.

As for a compact mirrorless camera I think m4/3 is getting close to being a better option.

Yup. The A6100 sounds like the camera that will make it worthwhile to bribe the guys over at magic lantern to write some code to allow the use of my Speedlites with a Sony. And with any luck, Sigma will make lenses for it.

I haven't done too much experimenting but I know the canon speedlights mount and fire on Sony bodies. Here is an article that explains some workarounds to get the exposure correct.

http://timfordphoto.com/using-canon-speedlite-flash-sony-a7/

 

[brad-man]

The EOS M3 was a step in the right direction but two years late. They need to release a camera that is comparable to the next Sony A6xxx. We will likely get a camera that is a poor substitute to the current A6000. I am more interested in the rumored Sony A6100. Especially if has as good of auto focus with 3rd party adapted lenses as the A7II and A7rII.

According to Sony Rumors unconfirmed Rumored specs for A6100

• 36mp BSI sensor
• silent electronic shutter mode
• IBIS
• 4K recording
• Touchscreen

I have not decided if I am just going to ditch the EOS M or not. I will take that up when my EOS M dies. I do like the 22/2 stm.

As for a compact mirrorless camera I think m4/3 is getting close to being a better option.

Yup. The A6100 sounds like the camera that will make it worthwhile to bribe the guys over at magic lantern to write some code to allow the use of my Speedlites with a Sony. And with any luck, Sigma will make lenses for it.

I haven't done too much experimenting but I know the canon speedlights mount and fire on Sony bodies. Here is an article that explains some workarounds to get the exposure correct.

http://timfordphoto.com/using-canon-speedlite-flash-sony-a7/

Thanks for that link. That's interesting, but I want my RTs to have full functionality. It's no less likely to happen than some of the other requests in this thread.

 

[Xyclopx]

i know there's 15 pages previous to this, but anyway, my opinion:

i love the idea behind the Leica SL but not the price. i don't care about size. i don't care about weight. i only care about ultimate performance and the technical advantages offered by a mirror-less design.

i would buy the sony a7 series as it's great in most respects, except that it's sony and i'd rather keep with canon cause they have a better, more well-thought out product line.

if canon makes a mirror-less with similar or better IQ to my 5d's and with all the techie bells and whistles of newer cameras i'll buy it. but otherwise hell no.

the mirror is a dinosaur and offers no inherit advantages that can't be overcome with technology. wish canon would just go all in and do it.

 

[Lee Jay]

the mirror is a dinosaur and offers no inherit advantages that can't be overcome with technology.

What technology will give EVFs truly zero lag, exactly zero power usage, infinite dynamic range and infinite color gamut?

The problem with EVFs is that they have so many inherent disadvantages that cannot be overcome with technology.

 

[Xyclopx]

the mirror is a dinosaur and offers no inherit advantages that can't be overcome with technology.

What technology will give EVFs truly zero lag, exactly zero power usage, infinite dynamic range and infinite color gamut?

The problem with EVFs is that they have so many inherent disadvantages that cannot be overcome with technology.

1. truly zero lag--well technically there is no such thing, but i'm 100% sure someday this lag would be imperceptible. remember, even what you see is an electrical impulse and processed by your brain.

2. power usage? well, i guess an evf would always use more energy. but seriously... so what? that's why we have replaceable batteries.

3. infinite dynamic range.... have you ever tried staring at the sun with your bare eyes? not recommended. how 'bout trying to compose in near darkness?--pretty hard right? this is the strength of the evf, to let you see more usefully.

4. infinite color gamut.... alright, i guess technically there's no such digitization to be exactly infinite as that's the very definition of "digitization". but again seriously?--you really need that last 0.0000001% when taking pictures? like what are you going to do?--oh that light is 0.00001% too yellow, let me tweak that dial with my nano-adjuster? anyway, yes, someday the evf will be so good no human eye can differentiate between colors. that's also for sure. ............ but what i can see is.... hmmm, how does this scene look if i change the white balance a bit? well, would you look at that!....

 

[Lee Jay]

the mirror is a dinosaur and offers no inherit advantages that can't be overcome with technology.

What technology will give EVFs truly zero lag, exactly zero power usage, infinite dynamic range and infinite color gamut?

The problem with EVFs is that they have so many inherent disadvantages that cannot be overcome with technology.

1. truly zero lag--well technically there is no such thing, but i'm 100% sure someday this lag would be imperceptible. remember, even what you see is an electrical impulse and processed by your brain.

That lag is added to the lag in the camera. I need the lag in the camera to be zero. I'd tolerate 2ms. That would require 1/1000th shutter speed, zero readout speed and 1000fps with zero pipeline lag. Okay, that's not really doable so, maybe 1/2000 and 2000fps with 0.5ms of pipeline lag and 0.5ms of readout time.

I need it to be that in all lighting conditions.

2. power usage? well, i guess an evf would always use more energy. but seriously... so what? that's why we have replaceable batteries.

I don't want to have to carry 5-10 extra batteries.

3. infinite dynamic range.... have you ever tried staring at the sun with your bare eyes?

Well, sort of. But during a partial eclipse and with a camera at f/16 with 3 stops of ND.

not recommended. how 'bout trying to compose in near darkness?--pretty hard right?

Quite easy, actually. I do it all the time. I've never had a scene I could shoot but that I couldn't see, including 30 second exposures.

this is the strength of the evf, to let you see more usefully.

That's a weakness - it's slow and extra laggy, and it ruins your eyes' dark adaptation.

4. infinite color gamut.... alright, i guess technically there's no such digitization to be exactly infinite as that's the very definition of "digitization". but again seriously?--you really need that last 0.0000001% when taking pictures?

EVFs are often not even SRGB, so they distort colors quite a bit. Camera sensors are often wider than ProPhotoRGB which is way, way, way bigger.

 

[smozes]

I just want the next M to be fast and have them fix all the idiotic bugs in the M3's firmware. I don't understand how the M3 and the latest Powershots with Digic 6 in them, still feel slow.

 

[crashpc]

Waiting for truly new sensor. Not thrown bone with few more pixels, cheating with added contrast, and pathetic AF and burst speed without focus. Full color 24 Mpx or awesome 32-64 Mpx, usable bursts of about 6 FPS with continuous AF and 8 without AF.