What happens to Big Whites when Mirrorless Takes Over?

danski0224

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 24, 2011
1,089
4
YuengLinger said:
Yes, this is speculation, mostly for fun. Not meant to raise anxiety and hackles, but at SOME POINT, somebody will be the last person to pay full price for a Big White or other L series ef mount lens, only to see it obsolete before the warranty runs out.

I predict that the ef mount, introduced in 1987, has considerably less time ahead than behind.
Unfortunately, Canon already "obsoletes" lenses costing many thousands of dollars to purchase.

As far as the EF mount goes, unless there is a paradigm shift in sensor size, f stop requirements or the electronic stuff that goes inside of an EF lens, there is no reason for Canon to introduce an EF mount replacement. Canon has already demonstrated that the EF mount can handle an f stop of 1.0, so unless something wider than that is needed, why change?

All EF lenses will work (natively or with a Canon made adapter) on all Canon interchangeable lens cameras currently made.

Unlike Nikon, any EF lens made since 1987 can work with any Canon EF mount body without any asterisks. The only lens feature that won't work using a current lens on a pre-1V body is IS.

Canon has billions of dollars invested in "full frame" sensor production. Changes there are not likely.

Whenever Canon decides to release a "full frame" mirrorless camera, I believe that it will follow the current Sigma sd mirrorless camera design philosophy with respect to the flange distance: it will be the same as the current "full frame" DSLR's.

The team behind the design of the EF mount had a tremendous amount of foresight (or luck :) )- their work has been able to remain current and competitive since the release in 1987. Design work certainly started 3 to 5 years prior.

It isn't going away anytime soon.
 

LDS

EOR R
Sep 14, 2012
1,579
152
YuengLinger said:
And might not mirrorless also lead to bodies with medium format sensors which cost about the same as today's FF 35mm based bodies?
FF will then become the "cropped sensor" body, so, maybe the ef-s will be the first to be phased out.
Those will require larger lenses. For a 6x7 sensor, a normal (50mm) lens would be a 100mmm, and you would need a 600mm to get the equivalent of a 300mm, more or less.

So what will happen to Big Whites if mirrorless go larger sensors? They would become your "common" lenses... :D

There was a reason general photography went from mostly using 120/220/620 film to mostly using 35mm film, despite the former delivering better IQ. The latter allowed for more compact and lighter cameras and lenses.
 

Orangutan

EOR R
Sep 25, 2010
2,140
3
LDS said:
YuengLinger said:
And might not mirrorless also lead to bodies with medium format sensors which cost about the same as today's FF 35mm based bodies?
FF will then become the "cropped sensor" body, so, maybe the ef-s will be the first to be phased out.
Those will require larger lenses. For a 6x7 sensor, a normal (50mm) lens would be a 100mmm, and you would need a 600mm to get the equivalent of a 300mm, more or less.

So what will happen to Big Whites if mirrorless go larger sensors? They would become your "common" lenses... :D

There was a reason general photography went from mostly using 120/220/620 film to mostly using 35mm film, despite the former delivering better IQ. The latter allowed for more compact and lighter cameras and lenses.
Eventually (10 years? 20 years?) computers will be able to design lenses quickly, and with better image quality than humans can do. Automated manufacture will similarly reduce re-tooling costs, and we'll be able to have a larger-sensor mirrorless body with a full line of lenses. It may even reach the point where you can custom-order a particular configuration for a somewhat-reasonable price. The question is when, not if.
 

LDS

EOR R
Sep 14, 2012
1,579
152
Orangutan said:
we'll be able to have a larger-sensor mirrorless body with a full line of lenses.
Unless there are big advances in optics (i.e. getting rid of glass lenses) and engineering (materials and AF systems), there are limitations dictated by physics - a 600/4 lens will still be large and heavy, more so if you need a larger image circle. Maybe sensor will improve and you can use a 600/11 (probably lighter, but still big enough), but the DOF will be that of f/11. Maybe you will be able to simulate it processing the image, even in-camera, but it won't be the same thing.

I see people believe the mirrorless will be something alike the "second coming", but actually they are just a way to remove the mirror, everything else is still the same. Sensors, processors and software may probably do a lot to change the way we capture images, but that's is true for any imaging devices, regardless of the presence of a mirror and OVF, or not.
 

Orangutan

EOR R
Sep 25, 2010
2,140
3
LDS said:
Orangutan said:
we'll be able to have a larger-sensor mirrorless body with a full line of lenses.
Unless there are big advances in optics (i.e. getting rid of glass lenses) and engineering (materials and AF systems), there are limitations dictated by physics -
This is trivially true. I was responding only to the belief that larger-sensor mirrorless is unlikely due to the lack of lenses. Lens design continues to get easier, but optical physics is still a constraint.

I see people believe the mirrorless will be something alike the "second coming", but actually they are just a way to remove the mirror, everything else is still the same. Sensors, processors and software may probably do a lot to change the way we capture images, but that's is true for any imaging devices
Agreed. More specifically, people often look at mirrorless as if they are looking into a mirror: they see their own needs met, and look no further.
 

unfocused

EOS 1D MK II
Jul 20, 2010
5,006
1,362
66
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
There is a simple answer to all this concern about the EF lens mount eventually going away (which, for the record, isn't a real concern).

I would just buy the last model Canon makes with the EF lens mount and keep it until I die. Given the quality of cameras today, I could happily shoot the rest of my life with existing bodies and never really need anything else.
 

Pixel

EOS 80D
Sep 6, 2011
105
7
There sure are a lot of new lenses in the pipeline and development for a standard that is rumored to be going obsolete.

#nothappening
 

retroreflection

EOS 80D
May 19, 2015
124
5
Compare the world's full frame capable lens mount standards. EF is frequently rated as the best.
Compare the volume of existing lenses in full frame capable lens mounts. EF is the biggest.
Why should an extinction of dslr's do anything to the continued sale of EF lenses?
 

LonelyBoy

EOS 7D MK II
Feb 18, 2015
745
0
Eh, when (and it will happen eventually for some reason) EF is retired, I believe it will be a slow process. At the point when it does, EF bodies will be available for some time, those bodies will be supported for yet more time, and be available on the secondary market even longer. CPS will service and rent them. Your Big Whites will be useful for the time you expected, then (or close to). Canon is not going to one day just announce that EF bodies and lenses are no longer available and supported starting today. Certainly they'll continue to work tomorrow as they do today, for a lot of tomorrows. One day, maybe ten or twenty years from now, you'll be made aware that you ought to begin your transition plan, whether that's starting to acquire a new Big White in the new mount to match your new body and sell your existing ones to people who intend to carry on with EF for a while, or continue with EF yourself and take advantage of cheap used lenses. You won't be left in the lurch.

Or at least, that's my belief.
 

YuengLinger

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 20, 2012
2,598
696
Southeastern USA
LonelyBoy said:
Eh, when (and it will happen eventually for some reason) EF is retired, I believe it will be a slow process. At the point when it does, EF bodies will be available for some time, those bodies will be supported for yet more time, and be available on the secondary market even longer. CPS will service and rent them. Your Big Whites will be useful for the time you expected, then (or close to). Canon is not going to one day just announce that EF bodies and lenses are no longer available and supported starting today. Certainly they'll continue to work tomorrow as they do today, for a lot of tomorrows. One day, maybe ten or twenty years from now, you'll be made aware that you ought to begin your transition plan, whether that's starting to acquire a new Big White in the new mount to match your new body and sell your existing ones to people who intend to carry on with EF for a while, or continue with EF yourself and take advantage of cheap used lenses. You won't be left in the lurch.

Or at least, that's my belief.
Sensible!
 

pokerz

EOS 80D
Aug 19, 2016
167
0
kphoto99 said:
YuengLinger said:
If I had experience with adapters, I might have less concern, but Big Whites and (many) other L's are bought not only for image quality, but AF performance too.
If Canon changes the flange distance for the FF mirrorless then the adapter will be like the one for EF-M to EF. This adapter just connects the lens contacts to the contacts on the camera. It does not affect the lens AF. The only things that affects the AF of a big white is the amount of power the camera body can supply to the big lens.
STM designed for on-sensor AF (Mirrorless) while USM designed for off-sensor AF (DSLR)
So prepare to upgrade your white lens to STM version in near future for the best performance.
 

YuengLinger

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 20, 2012
2,598
696
Southeastern USA
pokerz said:
STM designed for on-sensor AF (Mirrorless) while USM designed for off-sensor AF (DSLR)
So prepare to upgrade your white lens to STM version in near future for the best performance.
Exactly what I'm concerned about.

Who else has thoughts about this?
 

Maximilian

The dark side - I've been there
Nov 7, 2013
2,640
456
Germany
YuengLinger said:
pokerz said:
STM designed for on-sensor AF (Mirrorless) while USM designed for off-sensor AF (DSLR)
So prepare to upgrade your white lens to STM version in near future for the best performance.
Exactly what I'm concerned about.

Who else has thoughts about this?
Me not!
STM and USM in first place are just different types of motors.
It's the way you control them and this can be adapted by the developers.
I would just wait and relax. Go out shooting ;)
 

johnf3f

Canon 1Dx
Oct 25, 2012
931
19
Wales
I wouldn't panic just yet!

Mirrorless cameras have a very long way to go before they will be useful for the Sports/Wildlife fraternity. After all they will have to make one that focuses on where the subject is - not where it was.

DSLR cameras are not perfect by any means but, for now, they are still way in advance of the alternatives.

The Mirrorless producers will also have to produce far more robust camera bodies with much larger (and higher voltage?) batteries before they can compete.

Having said that, I am sure that competitive cameras will be produced - but will they be as good? For many users they probably will be. For my, personal, uses the EVF and AF delay make them pretty much useless - I have enough problems with a DSLR already!

In the future I am sure there will be a Mirrorless camera with a nice big battery, robust body, minimal viewfinder delay, AF that tracks ahead of the viewfinder, has vertical and horizontal grips etc etc. Sounds like a 1DX/D5 without the bump on top - that is a lot of extra expense on R&D to eliminate a little bump on top ;D
 

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
4,110
1,654
Irving, Texas
I don't understand why anyone thinks a FF mirrorless camera by Canon won't be an EF mount. Mirrorless doesn't have to be one of those nasty to hold Sony type cameras. Sony may have abandoned ergonomics, but Canon won't.
 

weixing

EOS 7D MK II
Jul 20, 2010
611
14
Hi,
CanonFanBoy said:
I don't understand why anyone thinks a FF mirrorless camera by Canon won't be an EF mount. Mirrorless doesn't have to be one of those nasty to hold Sony type cameras. Sony may have abandoned ergonomics, but Canon won't.
I agree. Since Canon are still releasing new EF mount lenses, I don't think Canon will change to a new mount when they go full mirrorless. If you want a compact mirrorless, there is EOS M camera.

Have a nice day.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,610
2,072
Back to the original question, the answer is obvious...at least to some on CR: Canon can't compete with Sony, so when mirrorless takes over, Canon will give up and exit the ILC market, meaning the big whites will be obsolete.

;)