What if Canon were no longer #1?

[Aussie shooter]

I wish Canon was third so they can be more competitive in their offering.

I'm pretty happy with my 5D IV.

So, Canon competes so poorly in the ILC market that you spent >$3K on their latest high-end model? Yeah, that makes sense...

I didn't said they compete poorly. Their 5D IV isn't the most competitive when it comes to features.

I shoot mostly wedding and engagement. I have to consider the entire ecosystem such as my existing lens, lighting, etc and not just camera body.

My 5D IV won't compete against any Sony/Nikon offering, but it get the job done. I wish Canon gave us more value on their camera body.

If I didn't shoot weddings, I would switch to Sony and using adapted lens right now.

So why don't you switch? Why does shooting weddings prevent that? Is it because you don't think the Sony's are reliable enough for a wedding?

 

[dak723]

My 5D IV won't compete against any Sony/Nikon offering, but it get the job done. I wish Canon gave us more value on their camera body.

If I didn't shoot weddings, I would switch to Sony and using adapted lens right now.

Just curious and hoping you could elaborate on what features exactly Nikon/Sony are offering that you miss on your 5D IV.

 

[NancyP]

I would still be out there with my 6D classic shooting macro and landscapes.

 

[AUGS]

I would still be out there with my 6D classic shooting macro and landscapes.

This! (Although my cameras differ)
All cameras a great these days, regardless of manufacturer. If one works better for you, use it. Canon does a great job for me. The reality is, its the 6 inches behind the camera that matter the most.

 

[Isaacheus]

My 5D IV won't compete against any Sony/Nikon offering, but it get the job done. I wish Canon gave us more value on their camera body.

If I didn't shoot weddings, I would switch to Sony and using adapted lens right now.

Just curious and hoping you could elaborate on what features exactly Nikon/Sony are offering that you miss on your 5D IV.

Not the op, but not having a tilting screen on the 5dmk4 was a bit of a missed opportunity I thought.
I don't have a 5d myself, but that's a large reason why I didn't upgrade to it

 

[Sporgon]

My 5D IV won't compete against any Sony/Nikon offering, but it get the job done. I wish Canon gave us more value on their camera body.

If I didn't shoot weddings, I would switch to Sony and using adapted lens right now.

Just curious and hoping you could elaborate on what features exactly Nikon/Sony are offering that you miss on your 5D IV.

Not the op, but not having a tilting screen on the 5dmk4 was a bit of a missed opportunity I thought.
I don't have a 5d myself, but that's a large reason why I didn't upgrade to it

They're saving that for the 5DV ! After all, in three years time or so what else will there be to add ? Until the Bayer Array sensor is replaced with something more advanced they ( and others) are running out of road in terms of significant improvements that will encourage people to upgrade.

 

[Isaacheus]

My 5D IV won't compete against any Sony/Nikon offering, but it get the job done. I wish Canon gave us more value on their camera body.

If I didn't shoot weddings, I would switch to Sony and using adapted lens right now.

Just curious and hoping you could elaborate on what features exactly Nikon/Sony are offering that you miss on your 5D IV.

Not the op, but not having a tilting screen on the 5dmk4 was a bit of a missed opportunity I thought.
I don't have a 5d myself, but that's a large reason why I didn't upgrade to it

They're saving that for the 5DV ! After all, in three years time or so what else will there be to add ? Until the Bayer Array sensor is replaced with something more advanced they ( and others) are running out of road in terms of significant improvements that will encourage people to upgrade.

There are heaps of features canon could have added to the next 5d though, and put a tilting screen in this one:

Astro tracker like Pentax
Ibis like panasonic and others
Stacked sensor for faster readout and fps
Fast fps and larger buffer (10 would be very nice)
Focus stacking in camera
Pixel-shift like pentax again
Hybrid view finder
Smaller 4k codec with a full frame readout
120fps at 1080
Peaking and zebra indicators

Although it would have been awesome if these had been in the current one, a lot of these do depend on an ibis method - are there any canon patents for this?

Does the 5dmk4 have a true silent shooting option or just 'quiet'?

 

[Sporgon]

My 5D IV won't compete against any Sony/Nikon offering, but it get the job done. I wish Canon gave us more value on their camera body.

If I didn't shoot weddings, I would switch to Sony and using adapted lens right now.

Just curious and hoping you could elaborate on what features exactly Nikon/Sony are offering that you miss on your 5D IV.

Not the op, but not having a tilting screen on the 5dmk4 was a bit of a missed opportunity I thought.
I don't have a 5d myself, but that's a large reason why I didn't upgrade to it

They're saving that for the 5DV ! After all, in three years time or so what else will there be to add ? Until the Bayer Array sensor is replaced with something more advanced they ( and others) are running out of road in terms of significant improvements that will encourage people to upgrade.

There are heaps of features canon could have added to the next 5d though, and put a tilting screen in this one:

Astro tracker like Pentax
Ibis like panasonic and others
Stacked sensor for faster readout and fps
Fast fps and larger buffer (10 would be very nice)
Focus stacking in camera
Pixel-shift like pentax again
Hybrid view finder
Smaller 4k codec with a full frame readout
120fps at 1080
Peaking and zebra indicators

Although it would have been awesome if these had been in the current one, a lot of these do depend on an ibis method - are there any canon patents for this?

Does the 5dmk4 have a true silent shooting option or just 'quiet'?

The key word is significant - to enough people to make an upgrade viable. The tilt / swivel screen seems to be well accepted now and I've come across a few people with the 5DIV who'd like that feature. As for silent mode, well I don't have the 5DIV, I have the 5Ds, but haven't used that for weddings yet. However I have shot weddings on the 5DII when the Vicar / Priest has ruled that I can only take pictures during the actual ceremony if there is no noise and flash. So I just shot that part in Liveview

 

[Isaacheus]

My 5D IV won't compete against any Sony/Nikon offering, but it get the job done. I wish Canon gave us more value on their camera body.

If I didn't shoot weddings, I would switch to Sony and using adapted lens right now.

Just curious and hoping you could elaborate on what features exactly Nikon/Sony are offering that you miss on your 5D IV.

Not the op, but not having a tilting screen on the 5dmk4 was a bit of a missed opportunity I thought.
I don't have a 5d myself, but that's a large reason why I didn't upgrade to it

They're saving that for the 5DV ! After all, in three years time or so what else will there be to add ? Until the Bayer Array sensor is replaced with something more advanced they ( and others) are running out of road in terms of significant improvements that will encourage people to upgrade.

There are heaps of features canon could have added to the next 5d though, and put a tilting screen in this one:

Astro tracker like Pentax
Ibis like panasonic and others
Stacked sensor for faster readout and fps
Fast fps and larger buffer (10 would be very nice)
Focus stacking in camera
Pixel-shift like pentax again
Hybrid view finder
Smaller 4k codec with a full frame readout
120fps at 1080
Peaking and zebra indicators

Although it would have been awesome if these had been in the current one, a lot of these do depend on an ibis method - are there any canon patents for this?

Does the 5dmk4 have a true silent shooting option or just 'quiet'?

The key word is significant - to enough people to make an upgrade viable. The tilt / swivel screen seems to be well accepted now and I've come across a few people with the 5DIV who'd like that feature. As for silent mode, well I don't have the 5DIV, I have the 5Ds, but haven't used that for weddings yet. However I have shot weddings on the 5DII when the Vicar / Priest has ruled that I can only take pictures during the actual ceremony if there is no noise and flash. So I just shot that part in Liveview

Fair enough, although I'd consider ibis and the resulting additions significant, but it might just be me in that camp...

Global shutter might do it. Or a bayer filter with a monochrome 'pixel' to improve the high iso performance (although at the potential cost to the colour?)

 

[stevelee]

After using the tilting screen on my G7X II when taking pictures looking up into domes and cathedral towers, and using the swivel screen of my T3i when photographing the solar eclipse, I bought a 6D2, and might not have bought any flavor of a 5 even if I could have afforded one. The utility of a moveable screen is not some I want to do without. I guess if I had a specialized professional use for a 5, that would be different, and I’d still have a 6 for general purposes.

 

[bokehmon22]

My 5D IV won't compete against any Sony/Nikon offering, but it get the job done. I wish Canon gave us more value on their camera body.

If I didn't shoot weddings, I would switch to Sony and using adapted lens right now.

Just curious and hoping you could elaborate on what features exactly Nikon/Sony are offering that you miss on your 5D IV.

EVF, IBIS, Eye AF. Nikon have in camera auto AF fine tune your camera lens. Sony isn't require to. I still have to buy software to fine tune my lens.

I don't do use videography professionally but I use some for vacation, family, and BTS. I wish Canon clean 4K file and IBIS would definitely help.

I'm fine with all Canon short comings for now, and I'm able to make images I want to make even with my 6D, but I have to spend >$3 again, I don't know if I would buy Canon body with each iteration of Sony camera keep on refining and have more compatibility with adapted lens while Canon keep offering lackluster update.

I only have 5 lens:2 L-lens (70-200 II 2.8, 24-70II 2.8 ) and a couple Tamron and Sigma Art lens.

 

[Mikehit]

EVF, IBIS, Eye AF. Nikon have in camera auto AF fine tune your camera lens. Sony isn't require to. I still have to buy software to fine tune my lens.

I don't do use videography professionally but I use some for vacation, family, and BTS. I wish Canon clean 4K file and IBIS would definitely help.

I'm fine with all Canon short comings for now, and I'm able to make images I want to make even with my 6D, but I have to spend >$3 again, I don't know if I would buy Canon body with each iteration of Sony camera keep on refining and have more compatibility with adapted lens while Canon keep offering lackluster update.

I only have 5 lens:2 L-lens (70-200 II 2.8, 24-70II 2.8 ) and a couple Tamron and Sigma Art lens.

EVF - you can only have EVF if you take the mirror out of the way and when you do that you have LiveView. Canon have patented a hybrid VF but this has not appeared yet.
IBIS - why do you want this instead of in-lens stabilisation? 'IBIS' seems to have become a bit of a mantra but I have not been sure why - if you want to use third party non-stabilised lenses this is pretty much a niche market.
Eye AF - by all accounts it was great when it worked but it was fraught with problems. I am pretty sure there is a reason Canon did not persist with it
Nikon have in camera auto AF fine tune your camera lens - and by all accounts is next to useless. Probably why Canon has not put it in their models yet but (if rumours are true) will have it in 7D3.

 

[unfocused]

Just curious and hoping you could elaborate on what features exactly Nikon/Sony are offering that you miss on your 5D IV.

EVF, IBIS, Eye AF. Nikon have in camera auto AF fine tune your camera lens...

If you feel strongly about EVF, IBIS and Eye AF, you need to switch brands. I don't see any of these three being implemented by Canon. Certainly not in the next generation of bodies. In-camera autofocus fine tune is much more likely. It's a natural for dual pixel sensors, so I would not be surprised to see it debut eventually. Probably just a matter of getting it perfected sufficiently to make it worthwhile.

 

[Dylan777]

EVF, IBIS, Eye AF. Nikon have in camera auto AF fine tune your camera lens. Sony isn't require to. I still have to buy software to fine tune my lens.

I don't do use videography professionally but I use some for vacation, family, and BTS. I wish Canon clean 4K file and IBIS would definitely help.

I'm fine with all Canon short comings for now, and I'm able to make images I want to make even with my 6D, but I have to spend >$3 again, I don't know if I would buy Canon body with each iteration of Sony camera keep on refining and have more compatibility with adapted lens while Canon keep offering lackluster update.

I only have 5 lens:2 L-lens (70-200 II 2.8, 24-70II 2.8 ) and a couple Tamron and Sigma Art lens.

EVF - you can only have EVF if you take the mirror out of the way and when you do that you have LiveView. Canon have patented a hybrid VF but this has not appeared yet.
IBIS - why do you want this instead of in-lens stabilisation? 'IBIS' seems to have become a bit of a mantra but I have not been sure why - if you want to use third party non-stabilised lenses this is pretty much a niche market.
Eye AF - by all accounts it was great when it worked but it was fraught with problems. I am pretty sure there is a reason Canon did not persist with it
Nikon have in camera auto AF fine tune your camera lens - and by all accounts is next to useless. Probably why Canon has not put it in their models yet but (if rumours are true) will have it in 7D3.

I find these statements dead wrong and closed-minded. Tack sharp with my f1.4 primes every times, even in low light. Please don't give false information.

_DSC2397 by Dylan Nguyen, on Flickr

_DSC0402 by Dylan Nguyen, on Flickr

 

[Dylan777]

EVF, IBIS, Eye AF. Nikon have in camera auto AF fine tune your camera lens. Sony isn't require to. I still have to buy software to fine tune my lens.

I don't do use videography professionally but I use some for vacation, family, and BTS. I wish Canon clean 4K file and IBIS would definitely help.

I'm fine with all Canon short comings for now, and I'm able to make images I want to make even with my 6D, but I have to spend >$3 again, I don't know if I would buy Canon body with each iteration of Sony camera keep on refining and have more compatibility with adapted lens while Canon keep offering lackluster update.

I only have 5 lens:2 L-lens (70-200 II 2.8, 24-70II 2.8 ) and a couple Tamron and Sigma Art lens.

EVF - you can only have EVF if you take the mirror out of the way and when you do that you have LiveView. Canon have patented a hybrid VF but this has not appeared yet.
IBIS - why do you want this instead of in-lens stabilisation? 'IBIS' seems to have become a bit of a mantra but I have not been sure why - if you want to use third party non-stabilised lenses this is pretty much a niche market.
Eye AF - by all accounts it was great when it worked but it was fraught with problems. I am pretty sure there is a reason Canon did not persist with it
Nikon have in camera auto AF fine tune your camera lens - and by all accounts is next to useless. Probably why Canon has not put it in their models yet but (if rumours are true) will have it in 7D3.

Because I can shoot at 1/5 with my f1.4 primes without tripod. Why you think Canon releases 85mm f1.4 IS???

 

[NancyP]

IBIS has some appeal for the users of vintage lenses without IS.

 

[Isaacheus]

EVF, IBIS, Eye AF. Nikon have in camera auto AF fine tune your camera lens. Sony isn't require to. I still have to buy software to fine tune my lens.

I don't do use videography professionally but I use some for vacation, family, and BTS. I wish Canon clean 4K file and IBIS would definitely help.

I'm fine with all Canon short comings for now, and I'm able to make images I want to make even with my 6D, but I have to spend >$3 again, I don't know if I would buy Canon body with each iteration of Sony camera keep on refining and have more compatibility with adapted lens while Canon keep offering lackluster update.

I only have 5 lens:2 L-lens (70-200 II 2.8, 24-70II 2.8 ) and a couple Tamron and Sigma Art lens.

EVF - you can only have EVF if you take the mirror out of the way and when you do that you have LiveView. Canon have patented a hybrid VF but this has not appeared yet.
IBIS - why do you want this instead of in-lens stabilisation? 'IBIS' seems to have become a bit of a mantra but I have not been sure why - if you want to use third party non-stabilised lenses this is pretty much a niche market.
Eye AF - by all accounts it was great when it worked but it was fraught with problems. I am pretty sure there is a reason Canon did not persist with it
Nikon have in camera auto AF fine tune your camera lens - and by all accounts is next to useless. Probably why Canon has not put it in their models yet but (if rumours are true) will have it in 7D3.

I can't speak to the auto-af tuning, but I'd have thought dual-pixel tech would be great for this

Ibis is surprisingly convenient, even with canon's own non stabilised primes; 50mm and 40mm have all worked well for stills, and video handheld is halfway decent too. I'm only using adapted lenses, I believe the two systems work together when using native stabilised lenses, which would be great with the canon L f4 zooms I have

Eye-af works well even with the canon lenses, I personally find it easier than trying to adjust the focus point, or re-composing.

EVF - I'd say both have pros and cons, and it would come down to the individual for what they prefer. No debate there. Hybrid VF would be great

In the end though, I think Canon can and should do better in pretty much all the camera features. Otherwise you'll have the situation where the parts that are simply ok for this model get reused in the next, even after the competition have moved on and offer more bang for the buck

 

[neuroanatomist]

Eye AF - by all accounts it was great when it worked but it was fraught with problems. I am pretty sure there is a reason Canon did not persist with it.

I find these statements dead wrong and closed-minded. Tack sharp with my f1.4 primes every times, even in low light. Please don't give false information.

Apple, meet Orange. Orange, allow me to introduce you to Apple.

It's apparent from Mikehit's statement (that Canon had offered Eye AF and didn't continue offering it), that he was referring to eye-controlled AF (e.g., the EOS 3), where the camera detects the photographer's eye looking through the VF and selects the AF point based on that. In fact, that was his misunderstanding of the feature being discussed, namely Eye AF, where the camera detects and tracks the subject's eyes.

 

[3kramd5]

IBIS - why do you want this instead of in-lens stabilisation?

Because every lens you can benefit from optical stabilization at no added cost. All else being equal1, why *wouldn’t* you?

1. I’ve ready many claims about this. A common mantra is that for longer focal lengths it’s better in lens and for wider focal lengths it makes little difference, and that working together you can get better results that a single method alone. I’ve not seen a test which isolates the variables enough to satisfactorily back up any of those claims.

 

[neuroanatomist]

IBIS - why do you want this instead of in-lens stabilisation?

Because then every lens you use can benefit from optical stabilization at no added cost. All else being equal, why *wouldn’t* you?

Because all else *isn't* equal. IBIS is less effective at longer focal lengths, so I'd prefer in-lens IS.

However, if the question above didn't include 'instead of', I'd choose to have both...which is an option with systems other than Canon and Nikon.