Where is the 7d mark 3 heading?

Dec 10, 2017
10
0
Canada
#1
With Nikon hinting at the Z6 being the D750 replacement i am concerned as to what the future holds for the Canon 7D mark 3. The rumor waters have become increasingly muddy of late.
 
Dec 6, 2016
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65
#3
I can't see the 7d3 going mirrorless. It is a dedicated sports and action stills camera and at this point mirrorless don't cut it in that field. The xxd line is a little different however so I think that is where the questions lie.
 

Keith_Reeder

No apologies for not suffering fools gladly...
Feb 8, 2014
676
105
58
Blyth, NE England
#4
the Canon 7D mark 3 has to beat D500 and at a price equal or lower when 7D mark II was launched (was it $1900?)
No, it doesn't. It only needs to "beat" (whatever that means in the Real World) the 7D Mk II.

I'm a typical (probably the typical) 7D Mk II user, and nothing on God's Green Earth is going to make me chuck in my 500mm f/4 Mk II and 100-400mm Mk II to move to Nikon just because the D500 is (say) better at very high ISOs than my current body (or even, if it comes to it, the 7D Mk III). I might move to a 1D-X, but not to the D500.

There are precious few sport/wildlife "serious enthusiasts" out there, who would throw in what they're currently using - which will doubtless be serving them extremely well - to move to another brand, just for one "must-have" feature their camera supposedly lacks. It just doesn't happen in anything like the numbers internet forums suggest.

So no satisfied Nikon D500 user is going to chuck it for a 7D Mk III, no matter how good it might be - just like the many 7D Mk II users out there now, who are still 7D Mk II users, even though the D500 is available.

And there are even fewer completely brand-uncommitted photographers who are coming in, completely cold, to sport or wildlife photography: if there were, you might have a point, but they're a rare beast indeed.

So it follows that all Canon has to to is keep its 7D Mk II users happy by rolling out a better camera than it.
 
Jul 16, 2012
212
17
#5
I see a lot of birders using 150-600mm lenses and 7d2/d500 or older bodies. I think quite a few of them arent too locked in brandwise, and are looking at what next to upgrade to from whatever they currently have. But once you get a 500mm or whatever, theres a much stronger loyalty to whatever brand you have.
 

Keith_Reeder

No apologies for not suffering fools gladly...
Feb 8, 2014
676
105
58
Blyth, NE England
#6
True, but then you need to ask "is their current set-up failing them?"

If it's not, the likelihood is that they won't jump ship. Some will out of curiosity, but most will stay where they are.
 
Jul 16, 2012
212
17
#7
I think a higher percentage will than previously. Particularly with Nikon's 500mm 5.6 coming out too. But I agree that its not really about 'failing'.
 
Likes: tron

Keith_Reeder

No apologies for not suffering fools gladly...
Feb 8, 2014
676
105
58
Blyth, NE England
#8
I think a higher percentage will than previously. Particularly with Nikon's 500mm 5.6 coming out too. But I agree that its not really about 'failing'.
Still not convinced, Otara.

The new Nikon lens is a tempting (if spendy, at UK prices) proposition, but it won't be optically superior to the Canon 100-400mm Mk II; or as versatile; and is only 100mm longer (less than that in reality, taking the different sizes of Nikon DX and Canon APS-C sensors into account) so - speaking as someone right in the middle of the potential target audience (and a one-time Nikon shooter) - it's not enough, even attached to the D500, to be of interest, given how good the 7D Mk II/100-400mm Mk II combo is.

And I get noise-free (and superbly detailed) images at 8000/10000 ISO by the simple expedient of converting my files in Photo Ninja, so the D500's noise "advantage" isn't, for me.

If I'm in lower light than that, there's no image there for me...
 

Don Haines

posting cat pictures on the internet since 1986
Jun 4, 2012
7,318
311
Canada
#9
I can't see the 7d3 going mirrorless. It is a dedicated sports and action stills camera and at this point mirrorless don't cut it in that field. The xxd line is a little different however so I think that is where the questions lie.
I can see it both ways.... If it were me designing it, I would put in a bigger buffer and a pair of UHS-II slots, and go for a faster/longer burst rate. I would expect a small increment in sensor performance and perhaps 4 to 6 more megapixels, and most definitely the articulated touchscreen of the 6D2, but other than that, not really a lot of change...
<EDIT>
Bluetooth headsets! Come on Canon... you put Bluetooth into cameras and don't give it the ability to connect to a Bluetooth headset? Why would you not include that? WHY?
</EDIT>

If it did go mirrorless, we would be looking at enhanced info in the viewfinder (undoubtedly user configurable), the possibility of burst rates of 60, even 120FPS (at reduced resolution), and the end of having to AFMA lenses.... I'd buy that one!
 
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Jul 16, 2012
212
17
#10
You could say the same about someone with a 7D and a 100-400mm mark 1 - none of this is 'needed' but people still upgrade/change. We're never going to really know how many unless sales figures get released or its such a massive change that its obvious, so not really something we can settle either way.
 
Dec 1, 2016
132
2
#11
No, it doesn't. It only needs to "beat" (whatever that means in the Real World) the 7D Mk II.

I'm a typical (probably the typical) 7D Mk II user, and nothing on God's Green Earth is going to make me chuck in my 500mm f/4 Mk II and 100-400mm Mk II to move to Nikon just because the D500 is (say) better at very high ISOs than my current body (or even, if it comes to it, the 7D Mk III). I might move to a 1D-X, but not to the D500.

There are precious few sport/wildlife "serious enthusiasts" out there, who would throw in what they're currently using - which will doubtless be serving them extremely well - to move to another brand, just for one "must-have" feature their camera supposedly lacks. It just doesn't happen in anything like the numbers internet forums suggest.

So no satisfied Nikon D500 user is going to chuck it for a 7D Mk III, no matter how good it might be - just like the many 7D Mk II users out there now, who are still 7D Mk II users, even though the D500 is available.

And there are even fewer completely brand-uncommitted photographers who are coming in, completely cold, to sport or wildlife photography: if there were, you might have a point, but they're a rare beast indeed.

So it follows that all Canon has to to is keep its 7D Mk II users happy by rolling out a better camera than it.
I would say if there is not 'much' better than the mark II, I would stick to my mark II. Like the delta from the mark II over the mark I is quite a lot.
 
Aug 26, 2015
278
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#12
It will be more like the 1DX II versus the 1DX.

A bit better AF (especially with teleconverters) and fps, maybe CFast+SD card slots or stays as-is, new processor (slightly better DR and less noise, maybe an electronic shutter in live view like the M50) and a touchscreen (probably fixed) with more advanced video features (way better 1080p than before, 120fps, cropped 4k mode maybe at 60p, maybe a further 1.4x if the megapixel count stays the same). It wouldn't be realistic to expect more than that.
 

docsmith

EOS Rebel T7i
Sep 17, 2010
765
92
#13
Sensor
The 7DII was one of the last bodies Canon introduced with the older generation sensors with off chip digital conversion (increasing noise). So, even going to on chip digital conversion like their current bodies will be an improvement. After that, introducing backside illuminated sensors, similar to Nikon/Sony should give another modest improvement. Finally, I am curious about these "organic" patents we've seen from Canon. Hopefully that results in a third, modest, improvement.

All that said, we are pushing what is possible on sensors, but it would be great to see something along the lines or better than what is seen from the Nikon 7500/D500:
http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon EOS 5D Mark IV,Nikon D850

FPS
10 fps is great, but I'd expect a modest boost to say 12 fps, maybe 14 fps. The big improvement here would be the buffer. The D500 can do 20 seconds of continuous shooting. I would hope the 7DIII gets at least into the 10-15 second range.

Layout
I love the similar layouts between the 7D and 5D series, I hope Canon keeps that.

Battery
I am thinking it is time to move off the LP-6N battery to something with a bit more power and life.

Video
This is not a video camera

In short, I would expect to see a what many others will consider a modest upgrade. Something that is 20% better in 15 ways which will be a great camera.
 
Dec 6, 2016
179
65
#14
Bah. The incessant (and repetitive) blathering over the FF mirrorless is getting painful(and yes I am very interested in what canon do on that front) so I am revisiting the other future release that holds interest for me. I would really love to start hearing something more about what the upgrades will be over the 7d2. Surely the FF mirrorless is not the only thing canon are working on atm? There has to be something out there. Onchip? Dual digic 8's? F8 focusing across the board? Spot metering linked to focus points? 1dx2 focusing system? If canon don't tell me soon they are DOOMED I tells you. DOOOOOOOOOMED!
 

AlanF

EOS 5DS R
Aug 16, 2012
4,135
335
#15
It's the incessant blathering from those blinkering their eyes from what other makes are doing that is really painful.

Canon sells exceptionally high quality and reliable cameras and lenses, which is much of its appeal. But, Canon tends to rely on inertia, brand loyalty, prior customer investment and lack of owner awareness of the improvements elsewhere to be slow to update outdated equipment. It's not that their existing kit doesn't give outstanding results in the right hands, it's that you can do more with improvements that other manufacturers have brought in. Here’s my take as a mad keen bird photographer shooting with a 5DIV, 5DSR, 400mm DO II, 100-400mm II, having worked my way through a 7DII, 7D and 5DIII.

First of all is AF. Canon’s AF is the fastest to lock on, but it is way behind the Nikon D500 and D850 when it comes to tracking against backgrounds, and even further behind the Sony A9 and dare I say it the RX10 IV. (Yes, mirrorless is now up there for AF). Nikon’s algorithms detect the movement of a subject and lock on to that and not the baackground. Sony’s are able to recognize objects and pick them out from the background. The keeper rate is also lower for canon because in A1 servo there is a stuttering around the best focus and so I, and I presume some others, take more shots than necessary to choose the best. A couple of weeks with the RX10 IV has shown me what the Sony A9 AF can do in a bridge camera with tracking and static shots.

For the 7DII, there is also IQ. The 5DSR with the same size pixels beats it clearly (for static shots, the 5DSR with Canon glass is still up there with the very best).

Secondly, there is glass. There is no doubt that Canon big whites are the gold standard. But, there is the pricing. The 100-400mm II is, in my opinion, the best mid-range telephoto with very good sharpness and outstanding AF. But, its price in the UK fluctuates between £2200 and £1600 according to Canon’s deals. The 400mm DO II was for many years £7000, but it is now on offer at £5,500. Canon is selling the antiquated 400/5.6L 300/4L, close to 20 years old, at premium prices. Meanwhile, Nikon has adopted the Canon DO technology and brought out the diminutive 300/4 PF and now the 500/5.6 PF at £3,600, which is smaller and lighter than the 400mm DO II.

There is no doubt that some professional and enthusiast bird photographers are changing to Nikon (and Sony). It can’t be dismissed as Forum chatter. Will I join them? Not for the time being as my 5DSR and lenses serve me well. But, I shall probably add Nikon and Sony gear if Canon delays much longer on the 7DIII and 5DSR II, and if I was starting from scratch for bird photography, the Nikon would look superior when reading all the reviews.
 
Dec 6, 2016
179
65
#16
Agree. There is no doubt that their tracking against a distracting background leaves a bit to be desired. I am guessing new sensor tech with dual digic 8's(which is what I am assuming it will get) will provide a substantial improvement in high iso noise performance. Apart from those two things thoughit is pretty well on a par with the nikon and for me at least is far superior in ergonomics and usability so I am more than prepared to wait to see what canon bring to the table. But i would love spot metering linked to af point. That wiuld be so incredibly beneficial for wildlife and especially birds in flight.
 
Dec 10, 2017
10
0
Canada
#17
Thank you for all the comments. For the longest time i thought this thread was dead since there were no replies.

I still have my 7D mark 2 and it is not going away anytime soon. The one fact i can share between the 7d mk2 and the Nikon D500 is that the 7dmk2 is a more well rounded system. The D500 doesn't do well at wider angles unless you take for example a 70-200 and backup several meters. In the end the D500 was sold and i stayed with the 7dmk2 and NIkon D750 for general work.

With the recent trend aka reveals in mirrorless cameras the exception being the Fujifilm X-T3 i find it more reliable to stick with dslr for the time being. A few things to update on the 7dmk2 would be a better sensor without an AA low pass filter and better noise control. The remainder is already quite good.

There is also all the hype about high iso that even Pentax suffers from. They (camera brands in general) seem to avoid improving on anything 400 iso and lower and many have noticed artificial details (CGI like) in images from all the high iso amplification . It is too much of a sacrifice as far as i am concerned.

Yes i am aware of the 90D rumors. Some 90D rumors are way out there but i will wait to have one in hand to examine first.

Thanks again.
 
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Dec 10, 2017
10
0
Canada
#18
Canon has been making decent strides into the APS-H class sensors and having Sigma cameras i am familiar with the size and how lighting works with that class. It's an interesting range to work with. I wouldn't need 120mpx but there are other advantage to the class even for Bayer, X3, or RGBW types.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
236
42
#19
I can see it both ways.... If it were me designing it, I would put in a bigger buffer and a pair of UHS-II slots, and go for a faster/longer burst rate. I would expect a small increment in sensor performance and perhaps 4 to 6 more megapixels, and most definitely the articulated touchscreen of the 6D2, but other than that, not really a lot of change...
<EDIT>
Bluetooth headsets! Come on Canon... you put Bluetooth into cameras and don't give it the ability to connect to a Bluetooth headset? Why would you not include that? WHY?
</EDIT>

If it did go mirrorless, we would be looking at enhanced info in the viewfinder (undoubtedly user configurable), the possibility of burst rates of 60, even 120FPS (at reduced resolution), and the end of having to AFMA lenses.... I'd buy that one!
The problem is not in faster/longer burst rate per se, It is in doing AI Servo AF tracking between each frame that makes mirrorless, particularly Canon's, so inappropriate for sports/action.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
236
42
#20
With Nikon hinting at the Z6 being the D750 replacement i am concerned as to what the future holds for the Canon 7D mark 3. The rumor waters have become increasingly muddy of late.
The Nikon D750 is a FF camera.

The Canon 7D Mark II is an APS-C camera.
The direct Nikon competitor to the Canon EOS 7D Mark II is the APS-C Nikon 500D.