RustyTheGeek said:I like Apple stuff just like the next guy but I cringe at how they take advantage of their customers' wallets with their overpriced products. They didn't end up having the highest stock price on their own! It required a high profit margin.
Normalnorm said:RustyTheGeek said:I like Apple stuff just like the next guy but I cringe at how they take advantage of their customers' wallets with their overpriced products. They didn't end up having the highest stock price on their own! It required a high profit margin.
While you may feel Apple overcharges for what it provides it is fair to argue that those who purchase Apple products feel they are getting fair value because they buy them in spite of alternatives and DO believe they are receiving value for money.
I would suggest the difference is similar to restaurants and home cooked food. The Apple restaurant uses the same ingredients as the others but happens to make a dish that far more preferred by diners. The home cook may actually make something that tastes better but the diner wants the ambiance of the restaurant that Apple has built and is uninterested in dirtying their hands.
They are not to be pitied they have made a decision that is sensible to them.
Niterider said:intence01 said:Niterider I disagree slightly.
Yes it's expensive, but when you compare spec for spec, Apple does charge quite a bit. The products are generally usable and you don't waste time with stuff that doesn't work. Instead you can use your time to simply use the product.
There isn't much difference between laptop/desktop architecture anymore. Yes, performance is better with a big huge desktop, but what do you need the performance for? Keep in mind with the iMac you're getting a 27" IPS screen. After the computer is useless, I believe the screen is still usable via the thunderbolt port (but only with thunderbolt enabled devices, which right now are mostly apple laptops but that might change in the near future). In any case, a 27" IPS (unless you buy some no-name brand on eBay) is going to run your $700+, so factor that into the specs. It is NOT the same as the $199 27" specials you see all the time.
As for the hackintosh, don't do it. I built one and it works ... mostly. Sometimes something doesn't work, then you have to go through the forums and figured out what went wrong. It's a fun project and I enjoyed doing it, but for a PC that's going to be used daily that I need to rely on, it simply doesn't cut it.
My only suggestion is that if you don't need super-performance, buy a Mac-Mini instead, and a cheapo monitor for now (unless you have a monitor, if you do, use that). When Apple releases a new Thunderbolt Display (27" IPS based on the NEW iMac monitor) either grab that or another high quality 27" IPS or PLS Monitor (Samsung, Asus, Dell Ultrasharp, etc.) They're all going to be pricey. That way you're separating the computer from the monitor, and can upgrade the PC every few years and keep the monitor. The biggest drawback with the iMac is that it's difficult to upgrade yourself, and the PC side of the tech will likely get outdated well before the monitor. Separate the two, and you can replace the PC every few years.
Honestly, I have little experience with hackintosh builds. All of my computers are either on windows 7, windows 8, ubuntu or running a virtual machine of a different linux distribution. I have heard running a hackintosh is a hit and a miss for stability sake so I can understand the desire not to go down that route.
While the iMac has an IPS screen, I often find that the graphics cards that are in the iMac just dont cut it for QWHD resolution, especially if you get into CAD or 3D rendering. Just a preference, I am not the biggest fan of the glossy screens either. I prefer the anti-glare screens in the Dell Ultrasharps.
Probably the most important part of a custom build for me is just simply convenience. I have a sound card, multiple graphics cards, efficient power supply, blue-ray, cooling like crazy, 16gb samsung ram (overclocked), multiple solid states, multiple hard drives in RAID arrays, a processor with 4 real and 4 virtual cores stable at 4.5ghz idling at 36 degrees Celsius, and a motherboard that can allow for lots of further expansion. I just cant get that in an iMac and if I could, it would cost over $3000 at least. I built this computer for less than 900. Unfortunately, I am one who does need super performance and most of the software I run is best on a windows platform (emulating doesnt work very well for these programs).
Plus if i need to upgrade, I can just pop the door of the case off...
Do most people need a QWHD screen, i7 processing power, over 8 gb ram, 3tb and a ssd os boot drive? Not many, but for those who need or want it, get ready to top off that credit card limit.
Normalnorm said:RustyTheGeek said:I like Apple stuff just like the next guy but I cringe at how they take advantage of their customers' wallets with their overpriced products. They didn't end up having the highest stock price on their own! It required a high profit margin.
While you may feel Apple overcharges for what it provides it is fair to argue that those who purchase Apple products feel they are getting fair value because they buy them in spite of alternatives and DO believe they are receiving value for money.
I would suggest the difference is similar to restaurants and home cooked food. The Apple restaurant uses the same ingredients as the others but happens to make a dish that far more preferred by diners. The home cook may actually make something that tastes better but the diner wants the ambiance of the restaurant that Apple has built and is uninterested in dirtying their hands.
They are not to be pitied they have made a decision that is sensible to them.
daniemare said:This might have been asked before, but I would really like some advice on which iMac, from those models just launched, to get.
Make sure you look into Academic Discounts if you are a student or have students in your family. It's about the only way to get a discount on Apple products.
I am looking at the 27" Desktop and I am going to configure it to at least include the 3TB drive. I will upgrade the memory (2 extra 8GB = 24GB total) after market as it is cheaper. Now I can just upgrade everything, but I would like not to if there is really no need or real world impact.
You should get at least the iMac RAM MAXED OUT AT PURCHASE TIMEbecause it is practically impossible to open, repair or upgrade anything once you receive it. The 27" iMac RAM is easy to upgrade. (But not much else.) So get your extra RAM from Crucial for a fraction of the price. There is an eject button in the power cord socket at the back of the iMac. Press it, and a cover pops open giving you easy access to the RAM slots. Otherwise, the iMac can't be modified easily. This is one of many reasons I discourage folks from buying them. They are like buying a huge iPad when it comes to working on them. Pray it doesn't develop any problems during its lifespan! Read this to get a better idea of the situation...
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9234218/Upgrading_RAM_on_new_iMac_practically_impossible
So, I need the community's advice for the CPU and GPU specs to lead me in understanding where my money will best be spend
1 - CPU > Taking into account my usage, is there any need/benefit to upgrade from the i5 2.9GHz to the i5 3.2GHz or i7 3.6GHz --- each step = $200
2 - GPU > Taking into account my usage, would I benefit from the increase the 512MB to 1GB memory ---- $150 upgrade
If you are doing much video, max out the CPU. Otherwise the CPU difference listed above is not that important. 512 MB of video RAM won't matter either way for photo or video. The graphics chipset in the iMac is pretty weak anyway so save the money.
My Usage (None for professional purposes):
Photo Editing
- Aperture. I have also recently started to work more with RAW files and my current 2009 MacBook does feel the punch.
- Photoshop Elements (rarely)
- NIK HDR
Video Editing of family videos using iMovie
Family Computer usage: Word, Excel Internet, e-Mail.
The iMac can handle the casual usage you describe above and iMovie will likely do you fine for video. Just please get a large backup drive(s). Other World Computing (http://eshop.macsales.com) is a great place to get better drives than the overpriced Apple drives. Also get a copy of SuperDuper! for better recovery backups than TimeMachine. Also, if you have kids in school, don't forget that you can get a lot of your software in legitimate academic versions to save money. Esp MS Office, Adobe, etc.
Cameras: Hopefully Canon 6D and 12Mpix Panasonic GF3
I can't speak to the GF3 but I own the 6D and love it.
PS - let this not be a discussion about Mac vs PC or Desktop vs Laptop. Those choices are settled
Sorry, I pretty much screwed the pooch on this part. :-[
Thanks
bseitz234 said:Didn't read the whole thread- just the OP. Take that into account.
For what it's worth, I have a 2010 27" iMac, i7 quad-core 2.93 GHz. Upgraded to 12 GB RAM but contemplating getting more from OWC (www.macsales.com). It cost about $2k when I got it, but I'm sure you could now get one for substantially less. I thought about upgrading when I heard they were going to do a refresh, but I immediately decided I didn't want anything to do with the new one, for the following reasons:
1) Optical drive. If you're ever going to want to burn CDs or DVDs, I'd much rather have that built in than have to buy and deal with an external drive.
2) FW. Yeah, I know, you can get a TB-FW adapter. But I already have a FW800 RAID setup for data storage and backup, which is significantly cheaper than a comparable TB RAID device.
3) What I have, works great. I have CS6, so I'm using LR4, Photoshop Extended, and Premier Pro for video. And I can run them all at the same time, with no lag. If I do something really intensive I might have to free up a bit of RAM, but I've been amazed at how smoothly this system tackles hard work. I can't imagine that the performance upgrade would be particularly noticeable, for my usage, and therefore not worth the cost for me.
My recommendation? Keep an eye on the Refurb section of the Apple store, and save some money on the lastest version of the old generation. And regardless of the specs, get the 27" screen. Having that kind of real estate is awesome.
bseitz234 said:Didn't read the whole thread- just the OP. Take that into account.
For what it's worth, I have a 2010 27" iMac, i7 quad-core 2.93 GHz. Upgraded to 12 GB RAM but contemplating getting more from OWC (www.macsales.com). It cost about $2k when I got it, but I'm sure you could now get one for substantially less. I thought about upgrading when I heard they were going to do a refresh, but I immediately decided I didn't want anything to do with the new one, for the following reasons:
1) Optical drive. If you're ever going to want to burn CDs or DVDs, I'd much rather have that built in than have to buy and deal with an external drive.
2) FW. Yeah, I know, you can get a TB-FW adapter. But I already have a FW800 RAID setup for data storage and backup, which is significantly cheaper than a comparable TB RAID device.
3) What I have, works great. I have CS6, so I'm using LR4, Photoshop Extended, and Premier Pro for video. And I can run them all at the same time, with no lag. If I do something really intensive I might have to free up a bit of RAM, but I've been amazed at how smoothly this system tackles hard work. I can't imagine that the performance upgrade would be particularly noticeable, for my usage, and therefore not worth the cost for me.
My recommendation? Keep an eye on the Refurb section of the Apple store, and save some money on the lastest version of the old generation. And regardless of the specs, get the 27" screen. Having that kind of real estate is awesome.
xamkrah said:i honestly wouldnt get an imac for gfx / video use.
the screen is glossy and a mess to work with compared to a dell u2711 or dell u2713h.
source: i own both, a 2012 imac and a dell u2713h.
had a look at mac mini / used mac pros??
Trouble is...Aperture and Final Cut Pro X don't tend to work too terribly wall on that Wintel box you're talking about.RustyTheGeek said:OK, Whoops. Sorry again for the long post. :-[
Yeah, these things do tend to end up being Mac vs. the rest. In this case however, I think that the iMac is a beautiful thing but very overpriced and somewhat ill suited for photo/video work. Yes, it CAN be used for those functions but it's very expensive and inefficient to create a good environment for the task. IMO, when working with thousands of important images or large video files, the important task (that shouldn't be overlooked) is not just CPU or RAM, it's file management. The images should be on a RAID volume to offer protection from failure and then also stored on a large secondary volume for backup. An iMac is essentially a laptop with a big screen and isn't designed to provide this type of multi-volume fault tolerant infrastructure. (Without hanging a bunch of expensive Thunderbolt drives off the back, which is still very new technology.) Yes, you can do fine with an i5 CPU and 8G of RAM (although OSX has always been very RAM hungry) but you can't do anything if your data or system is lost.
Whether the OP buys Apple or Wintel, the advice should point them to something that is powerful, configurable and upgradable. I would suggest a Mac Pro, not an iMac. I don't think the Mac Pro is a rip-off if that is what the job demands but it is still very expensive, just like all Apple products. I didn't set the prices. The Mac Pro disk structure, CPU and RAM can be much further expanded and is better designed for what the OP is doing. (Esp if they venture into video!) The iMac isn't very expandable. It's primary purpose is to sit on a desk and look pretty and provide a nice device for desktop activities like web/email/iTunes and basic home duties.
Please remember that Apple products are built first and foremost to steer Apple users into the Apple stores to consume and purchase media/app content and other Apple products. Getting other functionality from them is a secondary priority. The iMac is a perfect example of this. It is marketed to the affluent crowd that already owns iPads, iPhones and iTouch devices and want to venture into an Apple computer. Most long time Apple owners that I know or read about purchase MacBook Pros with Retina and MacBook Airs these days. Those are the most bang for the buck at this time. The iMac is the least bang for the buck. Production houses and graphics firms either use Mac Pros or they have started investing in comparable WinTel boxes.
Bottom Line is that if someone is looking to spend $1500 -$2000 on a device, I am going to help them spend that money wisely on the best choice, not just get what looks nice and be good enough for the time being. Unfortunately, an ideal appropriate Apple device doesn't exist for photography/video work for less than over $2000. That's just the way it is. Again, I didn't set the prices. Which is why I have an exceptional WinTel box (comparable to a Mac Pro) instead for literally thousands less. I don't do my serious photo editing on a laptop (regardless of the make) and I'm not using a limited All-In-One Monitor+Laptop Hybrid machine either. It doesn't matter whether it's Apple or not. The tool should still be appropriate for the task. If you've ever helped/consoled someone who lost everything due to a drive crash, you start to realize the value of fault tolerance and easy automated backups. If you want a great WinTel laptop device for photo editing, check out the Lenovo ThinkPad W530. It has features designed for photography work like built-in color calibration, an IPS matte display and a built-in RAID disk option. For less than a comparable Apple laptop. But it's not brushed aluminum so there's that to consider.
I would suggest either getting a MacBook Pro with SSD-Hybrid drive + big external disk for backup and then an external display or a Mac Pro with RAID and internal backup drive + external backup drive with external display. The iMac would be my last choice for photography or video editing. It's just too limited, crippled and expensive. At least with a MacBook there would be the added convenience of portability, a better screen and an i7 CPU.