why Cannon sleeps so hard

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,461
2,619
Ah. In that case I don’t agree. Having the best products a seller can make on a more frequent basis is a bonus.
Having frequent new models because your previous ones were flawed has its downsides. When they eventually get it right, great for the new buyers but the early adopters are left with devalued goods of low resale value.

If the new models are the result of genuine improvements that were not previously possible or thought of, then that is one thing and laudable. If the stream of models is to correct flaws, then that is not commendable. If it is from planned obsolescence, it borders on the dishonest. Planned obsolescence varies from having a well-planned stream of product release, deliberately holding back improvements so that they can be released incrementally to deliberately ensuring your product has a limited lifetime. The latter is criminal - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

"In 2015 the French Parliament established a fine of up to 300,000 euros and jail terms of up to two years for manufacturers planning the failure of their products in advance. The rule is not only relevant because of the sanctions that it establishes but also because it is the first time that a legislature recognized the existence of planned obsolescence. These techniques may include "a deliberate introduction of a flaw, a weakness, a scheduled stop, a technical limitation, incompatibility or other obstacles for repair". "

Canon is not guilty in the main of planned obsolescence as they have long product cycles on their major products and they do service obsolete models for a period of time, though not indefinitely.
 
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SecureGSM

EOS 6D MK II
Feb 26, 2017
1,155
190
while on the other hand SONY refused to service (main board replacement) my 3.5 years old SONY Bravia KDL 75W850C in Australia due to "Product is discontinued. No stock of spare parts globally available. Please consider your options, Sir..." How ridiculous is that?
Product was purchased in November 2015 for around $3,000. service was refused in June 2019.
Fool me once, shame on you; Shame me twice? read my lips: not.a.single.chance, SONY.
 

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
3,750
1,312
Irving, Texas
while on the other hand SONY refused to service (main board replacement) my 3.5 years old SONY Bravia KDL 75W850C in Australia due to "Product is discontinued. No stock of spare parts globally available. Please consider your options, Sir..." How ridiculous is that?
Product was purchased in November 2015 for around $3,000. service was refused in June 2019.
Fool me once, shame on you; Shame me twice? read my lips: not.a.single.chance, SONY.
Wow, that must have stung. Money is hard enough to come by. Doing such things to customers just shoots themselves in the foot. Sorry that happened to you.
 

SecureGSM

EOS 6D MK II
Feb 26, 2017
1,155
190
Wow, that must have stung. Money is hard enough to come by. Doing such things to customers just shoots themselves in the foot. Sorry that happened to you.
I found a refurbished main board on eBay and have TV fixed by an independent repairer.
Anything that gives you a reason to stop and ponder is food for thought. At least for some, I hope.
 
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3kramd5

EOS 5D MK IV
Mar 2, 2012
3,080
399
If the new models are the result of genuine improvements that were not previously possible or thought of, then that is one thing and laudable.
Agree; indeed that is what I meant. I’d prefer product roadmaps which follow the rate of development rather than an arbitrary cadence. I do recognize that economics in some way must constrain that; non-recurring costs must be recouped.

If it is from planned obsolescence, it borders on the dishonest. Planned obsolescence varies from having a well-planned stream of product release, deliberately holding back improvements so that they can be released incrementally to deliberately ensuring your product has a limited lifetime. The latter is criminal - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence
"In 2015 the French Parliament established a fine of up to 300,000 euros and jail terms of up to two years for manufacturers planning the failure of their products in advance. The rule is not only relevant because of the sanctions that it establishes but also because it is the first time that a legislature recognized the existence of planned obsolescence. These techniques may include "a deliberate introduction of a flaw, a weakness, a scheduled stop, a technical limitation, incompatibility or other obstacles for repair". "

Canon is not guilty in the main of planned obsolescence as they have long product cycles on their major products and they do service obsolete models for a period of time, though not indefinitely.
Do you know of any camera vendors guilty of planned obsolescence? I don’t, and I’d further offer that the presence of a new model doesn’t render a previous model obsolete. Examples: my 1Dx and 5Diii still do everything I bought them for. They’re capable and serviceable. The same could be said for a Sony a7riii. Hell I think they still sell their original a7 model (certainly could be wrong about that).
 
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AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,461
2,619
Agree; indeed that is what I meant. I’d prefer product roadmaps which follow the rate of development rather than an arbitrary cadence. I do recognize that economics in some way must constrain that; non-recurring costs must be recouped.



Do you know of any camera vendors guilty of planned obsolescence? I don’t, and I’d further offer that the presence of a new model doesn’t render a previous model obsolete. Examples: my 1Dx and 5Diii still do everything I bought them for. They’re capable and serviceable. The same could be said for a Sony a7riii. Hell I think they still sell their original a7 model (certainly could be wrong about that).
Planned obsolescence doesn't just mean that the old models stop working, it means more commonly that superior new models are planned in advance to supplant the older ones. Obsolete doesn't mean that something no longer works, it means it has been superceded by something better. You can read more on wikipedia or, say,

"Obsolescence can be achieved through introducing a superior replacement model, or by intentionally designing a product to cease proper function within a specific window. In either case, consumers will theoretically favor next generational products over the old ones"

This has been the modus operandi of car manufacturers etc etc over the generations. It is practiced by all purveyors of hi tech equipment, including camera manufacturers. Their newer gizmos have superior features, which often could have been added to the previous models but have been deliberately held back to ensure a flow of upgrades to create GAS.
 

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
3,750
1,312
Irving, Texas
Planned obsolescence doesn't just mean that the old models stop working, it means more commonly that superior new models are planned in advance to supplant the older ones. Obsolete doesn't mean that something no longer works, it means it has been superceded by something better. You can read more on wikipedia or, say,

"Obsolescence can be achieved through introducing a superior replacement model, or by intentionally designing a product to cease proper function within a specific window. In either case, consumers will theoretically favor next generational products over the old ones"

This has been the modus operandi of car manufacturers etc etc over the generations. It is practiced by all purveyors of hi tech equipment, including camera manufacturers. Their newer gizmos have superior features, which often could have been added to the previous models but have been deliberately held back to ensure a flow of upgrades to create GAS.
I tend to use what I have until the wheels fall off. Saves a lot of money. I had a Honda Accord. 380,000 miles with regular oil changes before granny gave up the ghost. :) Bought her used for $5k, when she was just a teen. My friends used to make fun of granny as she started to show her age, but I didn't have their huge car payments or perpetual leases. Still got me from A to B just fine. Cars are a necessity to me for transportation, not to impress.

Unfortunately, I can't say I have always followed that philosophy with cameras. :cry: 5D mark III headed to eBay today.
 
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Pape

EOS RP
Dec 31, 2018
358
211
I wish some mad scientist would pop 1/4 micron full frame sensor ,then megapixel race would stop at least ,but all that fast dveloping computing photographing developement still going ,prolly forever.
 

3kramd5

EOS 5D MK IV
Mar 2, 2012
3,080
399
Planned obsolescence doesn't just mean that the old models stop working, it means more commonly that superior new models are planned in advance to supplant the older ones. Obsolete doesn't mean that something no longer works, it means it has been superceded by something better. You can read more on wikipedia or, say,

"Obsolescence can be achieved through introducing a superior replacement model, or by intentionally designing a product to cease proper function within a specific window. In either case, consumers will theoretically favor next generational products over the old ones"

This has been the modus operandi of car manufacturers etc etc over the generations. It is practiced by all purveyors of hi tech equipment, including camera manufacturers. Their newer gizmos have superior features, which often could have been added to the previous models but have been deliberately held back to ensure a flow of upgrades to create GAS.
Yes I know what it means. Do you know of any camera company guilty of it?
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,461
2,619
Yes I know what it means. Do you know of any camera company guilty of it?
If you know ""Obsolescence can be achieved through introducing a superior replacement model, or by intentionally designing a product to cease proper function within a specific window. In either case, consumers will theoretically favor next generational products over the old ones" means, then why did you write:
Do you know of any camera vendors guilty of planned obsolescence? I don’t, and I’d further offer that the presence of a new model doesn’t render a previous model obsolete. Examples: my 1Dx and 5Diii still do everything I bought them for. They’re capable and serviceable. The same could be said for a Sony a7riii. Hell I think they still sell their original a7 model (certainly could be wrong about that).
All the camera manufacturers practice it.
 

3kramd5

EOS 5D MK IV
Mar 2, 2012
3,080
399
If you know ""Obsolescence can be achieved through introducing a superior replacement model, or by intentionally designing a product to cease proper function within a specific window. In either case, consumers will theoretically favor next generational products over the old ones" means, then why did you write: I’d further offer that the presence of a new model doesn’t render a previous model obsolete
Obsolescence CAN be achieved through introducing a superior model, but that doesn't mean that a new model NECESSARILY obsoletes a previous model. Older products can still be useful.

All the camera manufacturers practice it.
Then why did you write, "Canon is not guilty in the main of planned obsolescence as they have long product cycles on their major products and they do service obsolete models for a period of time, though not indefinitely.
 
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AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,461
2,619
Obsolescence CAN be achieved through introducing a superior model, but that doesn't mean that a new model NECESSARILY obsoletes a previous model. Older products can still be useful.



Then why did you write, "Canon is not guilty in the main of planned obsolescence as they have long product cycles on their major products and they do service obsolete models for a period of time, though not indefinitely.
Your old model functions perfectly well and satisfies all your needs. But, the new one has eye AF, 10 more megapixels and a purple stripe to give you GAS. That is classical planned obsolescence.

The qualification “in the main” means “usually but with exceptions”. Canon does practice planned obsolescence but not nearly as much as Sony.
 

3kramd5

EOS 5D MK IV
Mar 2, 2012
3,080
399
Your old model functions perfectly well and satisfies all your needs. But, the new one has eye AF, 10 more megapixels and a purple stripe to give you GAS. That is classical planned obsolescence.
If having a product roadmap is enough to demonstrate planned obsolescence is a useless term.

I give more deference to the definition which requires a product designed to not work well for long. Cameras from Canon and Sony don’t qualify; their lives aren’t artificially shortened. GAS doesn’t demonstrate obsolescence it demonstrates consumer behavior.

The vitality of the used camera market should be enough to reveal obsolescence or a lack thereof.

Either way, we are well off the mark of my original comment here. Whether or not obsolescence is planned, I’d prefer products to come at the company’s best rate of development, not one which leaves easily improvable items on the market longer.
878A805C-E0AA-4D6A-8E9A-EEAB9EA8EF6A.jpeg
 
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Del Paso

M3 Singlestroke
Aug 9, 2018
510
468
They bring out new models so frequently because their customers are their beta testers. But, if you wait long enough, you will get a thoroughly tested model.
By the way, "beta" in French means dumbnut... ;)