Why has Canon omitted 24p 4K recording in their new cameras such as the EOS M6 Mark II, EOS 90D and EOS RP?

[tarjei99]

24p isn't patented and doesn't need to be licensed. No more than a car MFG having to pay licenses for the speeds a car can go. More probable reason would be.. 24p gets choppy or jumpy when camera movement isn't smooth. Considering these 2 cameras were designed for the beginner or low level amateur whom probable owns less equipment. I believe they designed the camera to be successful with is user in mind.

24p wasn't set as the standard because how wonderful it was.... simply because it was the slowest that still provided realistic movement on screen. In other words... the cheapest way to produce a film people would like to watch without walking out of the theater.

Those who think 24p is for cinematic look need to realize "The Hobbit" series was shot in 48p. Additionally, the next two "Avatar" films are said to be filmed in higher frame rates as well.

It is nice to see a thinking person posting here.

I think Canon knows more about what the customers actually want and use than most posters here here including me does.

I suspect that this governs the feature list of any camera.

 

[tarjei99]

You're probably right. But this doesn't work when the competition undercuts your plans.

It works very well if the people that care will add the feature through Magic Lantern which they will add anyway.

 

[tarjei99]

Here's the real reason. I work in Hollywood on mostly indie to low budget films. Many are shot on Sony A7's, 5D's, 1DXMII, and Yes the Canon 80D...and in 24 fps. If the budget is a little bigger for a Canon C300MKII or C200 or Sony FS5 -7...etc....then they will use those. But many times the previous mentioned cameras will do the job, especially with an external recorder to get a better image and good lighting. Canon knows this and wants the films to be shot in a proper cine camera or if you still want to use a DSLR/Mirrorless camera you will have to buy the more expensive full frame (Canon) cameras for 24p filming. Not so with Sony APS-C cameras as they have 24p. Of course the Canon Rebel series has 24p...which are used also in very low or no budget films out here. The 90D would kill it out here for indie films if it had 24p. Oh well. I was going to order one, but most likely not now.

Not even remotely likely when we know that Magic Lantern most likely will provide the feature for those who care.

Canon knows this.

 

[tarjei99]

30p in a 24p timeline looks terrible, It doesn't work. Luckily, 30p in a 30p and 24p in a 30p timeline looks just fine.

This whole argument about 24p in these cameras is ridiculous. If Canon added 24p back to these cameras, would anybody complaining here actually buy the camera to shoot video? No. Canon doesn't care about the DSLR video enthusiast market. They are marketing these cameras to people who don't pretend to know anything about video but might want to use the camera to try to capture their kid scoring a goal in video mode. These people don't need 23.98p, much less 24p. And they don't want to be going through a page full of options of video modes that they don't understand.

The intended buyer is probably clogging support departments at the dealers and Canon complaining about the 24p video quality and thinking that there is something wrong with the camera.

Easy fix : remove 24p

Enthusiast will most likely add that feature through Magic Lantern.

I would have preferred that the 24p mode could have been enabled in settings, but people might enable it and not know the consequences. And then complain to Canon.

 

[tarjei99]

Glad you pointed that out, Don - I was just about to post that I'm heartily sick of discussions about cameras being hijacked by habitually malcontent wannabe videographers...

Apparantly there are industry rumours that some vendors pays to have people spread propaganda in Canon discussion forums.

It is not hard to belive since all we see is the advantages of the opposition, and none of any down sides.

 

[Scenes]

Not even remotely likely when we know that Magic Lantern most likely will provide the feature for those who care.

Canon knows this.

I thought magic lantern wound down around the 70D time?

 

[stevelee]

Just reading the 90D Manual and one thing I’ve not seen mentioned anywhere is if you use SDXC cards with a 90D it formats them as exFat and the 4GB video clip limit is removed. Nice. That’s incredibly useful.

I know that is also true of my 6D2. There is a warning in the manual about how to transfer the files to your computer, but file size is not the limit on shooting. The 30-minute ceiling still applies.

 

[Scenes]

EosHD is a Euro guy?

Yes. Manchester, England. I recall one of his venomous rants specifically about a press call in Manchester ‘streets away’ that he wasn’t invited to.

 

[Scenes]

I know that is also true of my 6D2. There is a warning in the manual about how to transfer the files to your computer, but file size is not the limit on shooting. The 30-minute ceiling still applies.

Yes. Same warming in the 90D manual. But great news not having to stitch together files especially at 4K bitrates.

 

[Mikehit]

younger people starting out with Canon for stills won't discover the magic of that frame rate, which is the basis for most of the history of cinema.

And what is 'the magic' of that frame rate? Other than it is what people have got used to.
I used to hear the same when CD was released - some people in the early days claimed to be able to hear the 'gaps between the digital bits' when all it was was that people were used to the distortions in vinyl. Now people have rapidly got used to CD and other digital media people accept vinyl or what it was.
I suspect the same thing is happening with non-24p frame rates: it is no inherent superiority but is what people are used to.
And any tech-savvy youngster will realise the benefits of (as others have mentioned previously) shooting at higher rates and adjusting to 24p in post processing. To take the megapixel analogy, why not maximise data and process it from there.

 

[Mikehit]

I'm astounded by the arrogant photographers in this thread trying to tell video makers what they need and don't need.

Here's an idea: instead of asking those of us arguing in favor of 23.98 and 24p video options to justify ourselves, why don't you go and find a statistic about how many Hollywood movies are shot at 30p and converted to 24p?

How much of that is because they don't want so shoot at 30p, 60p, 120p and how much is because they have a workflow and in many industries changes in workflow creates a very major expense in new technology, licensing and training.

 

[Mikehit]

I thought magic lantern wound down around the 70D time?

I thought Magic Lantern had problems with the dualpixel technology. Any one any idea is this was the case?

 

[Scenes]

I thought Magic Lantern had problems with the dualpixel technology. Any one any idea is this was the case?

Someone mentioned on a forum they kind of ended with the 70D. It was the last released canon camera magic lantern ran on in any meaningful way.

 

[Sharpening Iron]

Please forgive the ignorance, but can anyone think of a good reason Canon decided to omit 24p and use 25p instead? Is there a new standard on the horizon or something? I don't shoot video..at all...but I can't for the life of me think of a reason a company as large and as experienced as Canon would sabotage a new product by omitting such a necessary feature. I use the word "necessary" based on the vitriol found on this thread.

 

[neuroanatomist]

I use the word "necessary" based on the vitriol found on this thread.

This forum in no way represents the ILC market. Case in point, there was similar vitriol here for years about Canon not delivering more low ISO DR compared to Sony and Nikon – Canon continued their market dominance, even gaining a bit of market share.

 

[Travel_Photographer]

...Canon decided to omit 24p and use 25p instead? Is there a new standard on the horizon or something?

There is no 24 or 25p. There's 30p, 60p, and 120p in HD, and 30p in 4k.

No one has any idea why 24p was removed when it was available in the M6 Mark I, for example, and is now gone.

 

[unfocused]

This has got to be one of the all-time worst threads in the history of Canon rumors. And, that's saying a lot. Page after page of people insulting one another just for the sake of being the alpha poster. Seventeen pages at the current count, just to say Canon did not provide a feature in two cameras that some people really wanted and others don't see the need for. Neither side is going to convince the other and the childish insults simply prove what we already knew -- there are quite a few jerks that participate in this forum.

 

[Scenes]

Using the Eos 90D city footage posted to Youtube I made a 4K timeline and overlaid one on top of the other. Shooting in crop mode zooms in the image 18%. So added to the 1.6 crop of APSC that gives you a 1.78 crop shooting 'best quality' 4K.

For what its worth, even with youtube compression both crop and no crop look spectacular on my 55" Sony Master series OLED. Regardless of however Canon is getting to 4K, its a huge step up from 70D/ 80D footage.

 

[Richard CR]

Yes. Manchester, England. I recall one of his venous rants specifically about a press call in Manchester ‘streets away’ that he wasn’t invited to.

he's a very angry individual.

 

[tarjei99]

I thought magic lantern wound down around the 70D time?

You may be right about that. The latest download file was created in December last year.

I don't use it, so I didn't notice.