Why has Canon omitted 24p 4K recording in their new cameras such as the EOS M6 Mark II, EOS 90D and EOS RP?

[scyrene]

Here's a video with 24p and 60p footage shown side by side. Do you prefer 60p?

I like the smoothness of the one I assume is 60p (on the right?). The left hand one is more juddery.

I'm astounded by the arrogant photographers in this thread trying to tell video makers what they need and don't need.

Here's an idea: instead of asking those of us arguing in favor of 23.98 and 24p video options to justify ourselves, why don't you go and find a statistic about how many Hollywood movies are shot at 30p and converted to 24p?

I don't have a dog in this fight, but why does every camera need every option? I get why it would piss some people off, but why not just take the attitude, clearly these models aren't aimed at me?

 

[Don Haines]

Three fact remain inarguable.

1): They had a working 24P.

2): It will cost them nothing extra in licensing to have kept it.

3): They removed it.

Everything from this point on is supposition!

Obviously, they must have a reason to do so. Since they want to maintain sales, they must have figured that to the vast bulk of buyers, that the presence of this feature does not matter. Why they did so is anyone’s guess. It could have been to free up space on the Bios to put in a higher frame rate codec. It might be to keep menu entries to a particular level. It could have something to do with a new sensor. It could be darn near anything.......

What is done is done. No amount of internet noise is going to change things. If you are upset with Canon, then DO NOT BUY THE CAMERA! Sales numbers is what they will pay attention to. If it does not sell, then perhaps they will release an update with the p24 codec in it.

Since the vast majority of users will be using p60, and p120 on those rare occasions that they shoot video ( it is a mid to low level STILLS camera), a p24 update is not a very likely scenario.

On a personal level, I will get the M6 II. Even if it had p24, I would have never used it.

 

[Stereodude]

Evidently your petulance knows no bounds. Pathetic.

It's crazy how the moderator uses the exact same language and phrasing as you... That would explain quite a bit...

 

[Etienne]

But why wouldn't an aspiring filmmaker want those higher end products, anyway? The cost diff. between these crop cameras and something like a grey-market R aren't that great, and you get features that, IMHO, are a lot more important to a filmmaker (such as built-in C-Log.)

Filmmakers typically have several cameras and an awful lot of shots are 0.5 - 2 seconds. These shots are grabbed from dangerous, risky, camera-destroying locations at times, and sticking a $ 4 - 10,000 camera-lens combination in every location is prohibitive. Even big budget Hollywood films use the lowly GoPro, which has 24p. Canon is being excessively stingy and stupid with these pathetic restrictions at this point in video capture history.

 

[Don Haines]

It's crazy how the moderator uses the exact same language and phrasing as you... That would explain quite a bit...

Crap! Neuro, he’s on to you! Better be careful or he will find out that you are also Mt Spokane, unfocused, click, myself, and Harry Film!

 

[Photo Hack]

Filmmakers typically have several cameras and an awful lot of shots are 0.5 - 2 seconds. These shots are grabbed from dangerous, risky, camera-destroying locations at times, and sticking a $ 4 - 10,000 camera-lens combination in every location is prohibitive. Even big budget Hollywood films use the lowly GoPro, which has 24p. Canon is being excessively stingy and stupid with these pathetic restrictions at this point in video capture history.

Been waiting for someone to bring up this fact.

I contract work with another guy who does weddings, commercial, and corporate events photo and video. We typically have 6-8 bodies with us all day depending on the crew. Many of us have our own businesses as well so expecting him to have 3-5 “video cameras” at $5k-$10k a piece, lenses, lighting, audio, stands, tripods, etc, and a whole kit for stills would be crazy at the competitions price points.

It’s nice when we can all bring our bodies that can be used for stills and video and have access to the same features as one another. Not nice when Canon starts crippling their gear. For example, my RP and RF 35 is great for gimbal work.... not great when it doesn’t have 24p and all the other cameras have to work around this.

Sony guys are running around hand holding their cheap bodies and delivering good footage at higher resolution than Canon and charging low prices....it’s hard not to be salty about stuff like this when you’re so invested into Canon already.

I can tell from a lot of the criticisms against video makers that many in here are hobbyists and simply can’t relate to or empathize with full time pros.

They also obviously have the time on their hands to debate topics not relevant to them either. Sad.

 

[Graphic.Artifacts]

A lot of the 24p vs HFR issue is strictly personal prefference which is why it always spins out of control like this.

If you think spending 12 straight hours playing Fortnite on a 240 Hz monitor sounds like a slice of heaven you might like HFR better. If that sounds like the 7th level of Hell you're probably going to be happier with 24P.

There's no right or wrong answer for everyone. Both have their place. 24 fps might not look sharp to someone who can visually process a lot of information. 48 FPS or higher can cause others significant visual discomfort.

 

[crazyrunner33]

That’s an opinion on the


He hates canon because they don’t send him review samples. It may well turn out to be right but I’d wait for peta pixels or fstoopers or literally any other website to confirm before taking his opinion as fact.

You can choose to dislike him for not liking his opinions, but assuming he has a bias only because he doesn't get a review unit from Canon is just silly.

 

[Photo Hack]

Been waiting for someone to bring up this fact.

I contract work with another guy who does weddings, commercial, and corporate events photo and video. We typically have 6-8 bodies with us all day depending on the crew. Many of us have our own businesses as well so expecting him to have 3-5 “video cameras” at $5k-$10k a piece, lenses, lighting, audio, stands, tripods, etc, and a whole kit for stills would be crazy at the competitions price points.

It’s nice when we can all bring our bodies that can be used for stills and video and have access to the same features as one another. Not nice when Canon starts crippling their gear. For example, my RP and RF 35 is great for gimbal work.... not great when it doesn’t have 24p and all the other cameras have to work around this.

Sony guys are running around hand holding their cheap bodies and delivering good footage at higher resolution than Canon and charging low prices....it’s hard not to be salty about stuff like this when you’re so invested into Canon already.

I can tell from a lot of the criticisms against video makers that many in here are hobbyists and simply can’t relate to or empathize with full time pros.

They also obviously have the time on their hands to debate topics not relevant to them either. Sad.

I would also add that it’s not just 24p. A lot of video guys are pissed that Canon is behind by almost 3 years. They want to stay with Canon, they like the gear, the eco system, they’re invested.

But when Canon is behind AND they start dicking around with common features and crippling their gear, that’s a little too far for a lot of them.

Personally, I don’t mind waiting. Video isn’t my full time gig, stills are my thing. But the more our business grows, the more video we’re doing so I get it.

 

[neuroanatomist]

It's crazy how the moderator uses the exact same language and phrasing as you... That would explain quite a bit...

Lol, nice conspiracy theory. Has it occurred to you that your petulance is simply obvious to everyone? If I was moderating your posts, I’d have just banned you and been done with it.

 

[dtaylor]

No disrepect to the X-T3 which is a great camera but there is something pretty amazing about the way DPAF pulls a focus transition between two subjects that I can't get with Fuji AF. Fuji's manual focus tools are much better than Canon's so I can usually get something using MF but it's not quite the same. Tracking a subject with AF is easier with the Fuji's in my experience.

I would agree. But it doesn't out weigh the other factors.

DPAF's superiority for video only makes this hurt more. It seems so simple but DPAF + flip out screen + Canon skin tones makes cameras like the 80D and 90D perfect for vlogging, Instagram, etc. But that just brings us back around to: why would Canon annoy this market by leaving out 24p? It doesn't matter if you think other frame rates are soap operas or if you think 24p is trash because of The Hobbit. The market demands it and it's a software feature. Put it in the #@!$ camera and make the sale.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Crap! Neuro, he’s on to you! Better be careful or he will find out that you are also Mt Spokane, unfocused, click, myself, and Harry Film!

You offend me, Sir.

 

[Otara]

I get the impression that theres a group out there that wants a DPAF APS-C GH5 from Canon or thereabouts.

And for whatever reason thats just not what Canon is going to release. It must be frustrating.

 

[cpreston]

I get the impression that theres a group out there that wants a DPAF APS-C GH5 from Canon or thereabouts.

And for whatever reason thats just not what Canon is going to release. It must be frustrating.

No, what they wanted was the S1H, which has just been announced. Admittedly, if it was Canon they would be complaining that at was $1000 overpriced, but the S1H is the camera that DSLR video enthusiasts have been demanding.

 

[Photo Hack]

No, what they wanted was the S1H, which has just been announced. Admittedly, if it was Canon they would be complaining that at was $1000 overpriced, but the S1H is the camera that DSLR video enthusiasts have been demanding.

Absolutely. My friend I contract with is eyeing this camera up. He needs 3 bodies and thinking of jumping ship for this right now.

 

[Richard CR]

I'm astounded by the arrogant photographers in this thread trying to tell video makers what they need and don't need.

Here's an idea: instead of asking those of us arguing in favor of 23.98 and 24p video options to justify ourselves, why don't you go and find a statistic about how many Hollywood movies are shot at 30p and converted to 24p?

that's right, because every stills camera will be used to shoot the next hollywood blockbuster.

 

[Scenes]

You can choose to dislike him for not liking his opinions, but assuming he has a bias only because he doesn't get a review unit from Canon is just silly.

I’m not assuming a bias. He literally wrote a long rambling post saying just that a year or two ago. At the same time he also picked very public fights with every major camera website for being ‘shills’.

I wouldn’t take his opinion on the weather let alone a camera purchase.

 

[HarryFilm]

Harry is back!

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I never went away !!!!

I'm just being a ghost right now but I AM STANDING RIGHT BESIDE you EVERYWHERE AND ANYWHERE !!!!

...

 

[HarryFilm]

I wouldn’t say any article from that site is the final word on anything. He’s a very angry individual, like a man with a fork in a world of soup.

He banned me from the site around the 80D launch when I pointed out that publishing his forum users real names and details to make fun of those who disagreed with him was not only in bad taste but also in breach of GPDR data rules.

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ALL DOT COM sites are by definition managed by the USA (i.e. part of the Verisign and ICANN .COM web domain management contract) and thus DO NOT FALL under the rules of the GPDR if their servers are in the USA or Canada. the GPDR HAS NO LEGAL FORCE in these countries! and NO U.S. or Canadian judge will enforce ANY GDPR privacy or extradition order against a U.S./Canada based website and/or its principals over GDPR rules!

Sooooo, the website operator ABSOLUTELY CAN reveal whoever or whatever they see fit since the U.S. Constitution's FIRST AMENDMENT rules of Free Speech and Freedom of the Press apply here and GDPR DOES NOT APPLY in the USA or Canada!

And since I know MORE than a few U.S. and Canadian lawyers (and even a few Judges!) with SPECIFIC EXPERTISE in this, I think I will defer to THEIR actual and very real legal-world knowledge and precedent-setting court rulings!

.

 

[HarryFilm]

I get that. However, this is a situation where video features are being added to a photography based camera. So we come full circle to the argument of how there are true video based bodies yet budgetary concerns keep them out of your hands and then the hybrids are being decried as basically criminal since they don't do video justice. This is why we get the Porsche/Hyundai analogy.

But hey, Blackmagic has your camera, takes your EF lenses and doesn't break the bank. Head on over there and Namaste.

YES! YES !!! and TRIPLE YES !!!!

Of all the recent cameras introduced so far as of August 2019, the Blackmagic 6K BMPCC system is the BEST of the lot with regards to supporting ALL the latest frames rates and compression ratios. AND its actual CMOS imager has soooooooo many colour science improvements that it is TRULY NOW A SERIOUS COMPETITOR to the Sony A7s2/A9/R4, Nikon D5/D850/Z6/Z7 and the Canon 5Dmk4/1DMk2 series of DSLR/Mirrorless small form factor cameras! Price-wise versus its total feature set and adding in its actual image quality NOW makes the 6K BMPCC the SUPERIOR camera to all other small form factor systems and SHOULD be in your Top-3 choices if you are seriously in the market for a new video-centric camera!

With the appropriate lighting and resolution setting, you can even use RAW VIDEO or 4:2:2 formats on the 6K BMPCC as an 18 megapixel 24 fps to 60 fps burst-rate stills camera! What's not to like about that for your action/wildlife/sports stills imagery?! Do remember to BUY the Sharpest set of Sigma Art Series or Canon prime lenses (i.e. 16mm 35mm, 50mm, 85mm, 135mm, 200mm) you can afford! Buy the lenses USED if you have to but GET either the Sigma Art Series or the Canon L-series glass for the 6K BMPCC system!

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You just cannot beat the price vs feature set when you consider the 6K BMPCC !!!!
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