Why no APS-C "Holy Trinity"?

Jul 6, 2017
814
58
Davidson, NC
#21
slclick said:
I liked my 10-22 when I shot crop, sure it needed a bit of correction in post but it was a very good value. Didn't need it to be faster, it was fantastic stopped down.
That has been my experience with that lens. I haven't needed that range much lately, though. Since I don't have anything wider that the 24mm on my kit zoom for my 6D2, if I do I will still get out the T3i and the 10-22. The realtor for whom I shot houses on occasion has retired, and I've not cultivated any more business. Sometimes, even with him, the staging company also did the interior photos. I may some day get the 16-35 for my FF, but would do it sooner if I had a project that would help pay for it. Right now, it makes more sense for me to get a better telephoto than the 75-300mm that I got along with the kit lens with my first Rebel.
 
Dec 1, 2016
132
2
#22
Judging from the Sigma 18-35mm f/1,8 and the 50-100mm f/1,8.

It is difficult in a non-linear fashion to develop glass for smaller sensor bodies.
Any further attempts would lead to a point of diminishing returns (i.e the size and weight of the 50-100mm f/1,8 is about the same as a 70-200mm with IS.)

what would happen if the focal length is stretched to say 50-135mm f/1,8 and with OS?

Hope Sigma would introduce a say 10-18mm f/1,8 DC HSM glass for crop users.... :p
 
Jul 8, 2017
25
0
#23
The APS-C upgrade path has been maddening me this year too. It is that cost and size problem.

I've looked at the 11-20 f2.8 Tokina, 24-70 f4 macro, and 100-400 Sigma as another affordable-ish crop body trio. A Tamron 24-70 f2.8 (non G2) could be another good option to stay below $800 per zoom and get the faster aperture for the portrait range.

For camera size, I like SL2 to 77D range. The size of current FF Canon is an instant veto for me, and even more for my wife. Big lenses don't change that the big cameras feel oversize to my hands. The A7III is an instant crush this week (give me eye AF and IBIS for my shaky hands). I'm just not ready for a full frame kit approaching 2x the cost. Eye or pupil AF in the new M50 is encouraging. 90D could be a really cool camera. For now, just waiting until I see a deal on a Canon crop body I can't resist.

 
Apr 5, 2015
221
0
#24
I am also at a point where I am considering upgrading my whole setup. I will make changes during the coming months, but I also need to decide between crop and full frame.
Currently I have a 1.3 crop camera which is the worst solution... going to full frame for quality and proper wide angles, or going to crop where I have some nice cheaper glass, is the way to go.

So far, the most likely upgrades will be:

1D mark II > replace with used Canon 6D
Tamron 28-75 F2.8 > get this lens serviced for its decentered element and see how it works with the 6D.
Keep 40mm F2.8 STM
Keep 50mm F1.4 USM

Then see what other glass I can add.
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
1,885
136
Vancouver, BC
#25
KevinP said:
The APS-C upgrade path has been maddening me this year too. It is that cost and size problem.

I've looked at the 11-20 f2.8 Tokina, 24-70 f4 macro, and 100-400 Sigma as another affordable-ish crop body trio. A Tamron 24-70 f2.8 (non G2) could be another good option to stay below $800 per zoom and get the faster aperture for the portrait range.

For camera size, I like SL2 to 77D range. The size of current FF Canon is an instant veto for me, and even more for my wife. Big lenses don't change that the big cameras feel oversize to my hands. The A7III is an instant crush this week (give me eye AF and IBIS for my shaky hands). I'm just not ready for a full frame kit approaching 2x the cost. Eye or pupil AF in the new M50 is encouraging. 90D could be a really cool camera. For now, just waiting until I see a deal on a Canon crop body I can't resist.

I would go 80D over 77D.

The Canon EF70-300 f4-5.6 USM (nano) is a pretty good bet. The image quality is good, the autofocus is fast and reasonably consistent considering the price, and it goes on sale for ridiculously cheap prices at times. It suffers from slightly soft corners, which you'll happily never see on a crop :)

The alternative is the EFS55-250 STM, which is a great lens for the price, and not very big.

If it were me, the only other lens I'd need on a budget would be the Canon EFS18-135 USM (nano). That's an exceptional lens for the price, I think, with probably the fastest, quietest AF I've seen of any lens, ever.

Sure, it's not amazing under 24, and isn't really that great over 100, but that leaves a pretty good range where it is perfectly sharp all around, especially stopped down to f/5.6. And even at the ends of its focal range, it's not a terrible lens; it's just not as good as much larger, heavier and more expensive options.

If you want wide, I don't think that you can do better than the EFS10-18. That's spectacular image quality at a steal, though the lens doesn't "feel" very premium.

So... there you go, that would be my crop trinity (10-18, 18-135, 70-300 or 55-250), though the 70-300 isn't EFS.

By the way, I really love the EF24-70L f4. However, on a crop, I find that 24 usually wide enough, but sometimes not quite. And, that leaves a big gap between 18mm - 24mm, which is an important focal range to me.
 
Apr 5, 2015
221
0
#26
The new M50 looks nice, but if you want an adapter to use EF or EF-S glass, you need to pay another $200... which just brings it back up to the price of an 80D.

If Canon really want mirrorless to take off, they should throw in an EF to EF-M adapter for free with mirrorless cameras above a certain price... say $750 or whatever.
 

Woody

EOS 77D
Jul 20, 2010
1,089
11
#27
neuroanatomist said:
The APS-C trinity is the EF-S 10-18mm, EF-S 18-55mm and EF-S 55-250mm. Fixed aperture zooms cost more, and are larger. Neither of those (particularly the first one) appeal to the majority of APS-C camera buyers.
Agreed. I own the aforementioned APS-C trinity. Awesome optical quality and lightweight. Love them!
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
1,885
136
Vancouver, BC
#28
mistaspeedy said:
The new M50 looks nice, but if you want an adapter to use EF or EF-S glass, you need to pay another $200... which just brings it back up to the price of an 80D.

If Canon really want mirrorless to take off, they should throw in an EF to EF-M adapter for free with mirrorless cameras above a certain price... say $750 or whatever.
That will come on the sales. Canon has included the adapter on M5's, often.
 

Random Orbits

EOS 6D Mark II
Mar 14, 2012
2,098
33
#29
Talys said:
mistaspeedy said:
The new M50 looks nice, but if you want an adapter to use EF or EF-S glass, you need to pay another $200... which just brings it back up to the price of an 80D.

If Canon really want mirrorless to take off, they should throw in an EF to EF-M adapter for free with mirrorless cameras above a certain price... say $750 or whatever.
That will come on the sales. Canon has included the adapter on M5's, often.
+1. I now have 2 adapters. I got one for the original M (with tripod foot). I then got a free one with the M5 (without tripod foot). There is no reason to pay retail for the adapter - look for used for people who have multiple.
 
Apr 23, 2018
1,088
149
#30
Judging from the Sigma 18-35mm f/1,8 and the 50-100mm f/1,8.

It is difficult in a non-linear fashion to develop glass for smaller sensor bodies.
Any further attempts would lead to a point of diminishing returns (i.e the size and weight of the 50-100mm f/1,8 is about the same as a 70-200mm with IS.)

what would happen if the focal length is stretched to say 50-135mm f/1,8 and with OS?

Hope Sigma would introduce a say 10-18mm f/1,8 DC HSM glass for crop users.... :p

would you be prepared to pay for expensive crop-only lenses that are big and heavy?

Canon got it exactly right:

1. it it is crop-only, make it compact, decent IQ and performance and inexpensive
that's why all those Rebels + EF-S sold well in the past and EOS M + EF-M are selling well now ... while all the nice, fast, fat, aperture-ringed, retro-dialed, hipster-looks Fuji stuff is stuck at 5% market share or thereabaouts ... "too expensive for crop-only"

2. if it is big and expensive, make it 100% FF capable with excellent IQ + performance (including fast glass)

3. The third segment will be "mirrorfree FF without fast or long glass" in a compact, decent and affordable package. :)
 
Jul 8, 2017
25
0
#31
I would go 80D over 77D.

The Canon EF70-300 f4-5.6 USM (nano) is a pretty good bet. ... The alternative is the EFS55-250 STM, which is a great lens for the price, and not very big.

If it were me, the only other lens I'd need on a budget would be the Canon EFS18-135 USM (nano). That's an exceptional lens for the price, I think, with probably the fastest, quietest AF I've seen of any lens, ever.

Sure, it's not amazing under 24, and isn't really that great over 100, but that leaves a pretty good range where it is perfectly sharp all around, especially stopped down to f/5.6. And even at the ends of its focal range, it's not a terrible lens; it's just not as good as much larger, heavier and more expensive options.
It's been half a year since you wrote this, but I came to see it your way. I got a used 80D and 18-135 USM around the end of June. Weather seals, battery, and AFMA won me over. I'm pretty happy with that pair for most of my uses. The 18-135 is surprisingly nice for semi-macro shots. A Tokina 11-20 f/2.8 and Canon 55-250 STM cover my wide and narrow specialty uses. A cheap Yongnuo 35 f/2 and the Canon 50 f/1.8 II cover when I want narrower depth of field or indoor shots.

I periodically daydream about getting a fancier macro, or portrait, or a 100-400 lens, but it's a hard sell for a budget rig. These are all "better" options, and they add up to about $1200+. Being patient with the limits of a $1700 kit is winning so far. Figuring out how to change lenses easier/faster will probably do me more good.
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
1,885
136
Vancouver, BC
#33
It's been half a year since you wrote this, but I came to see it your way. I got a used 80D and 18-135 USM around the end of June. Weather seals, battery, and AFMA won me over. I'm pretty happy with that pair for most of my uses. The 18-135 is surprisingly nice for semi-macro shots. A Tokina 11-20 f/2.8 and Canon 55-250 STM cover my wide and narrow specialty uses. A cheap Yongnuo 35 f/2 and the Canon 50 f/1.8 II cover when I want narrower depth of field or indoor shots.

I periodically daydream about getting a fancier macro, or portrait, or a 100-400 lens, but it's a hard sell for a budget rig. These are all "better" options, and they add up to about $1200+. Being patient with the limits of a $1700 kit is winning so far. Figuring out how to change lenses easier/faster will probably do me more good.
Cool, and congratulations!

I really like the combination of the 80D and 18-135 USM. Happy shooting!