Why the 5D Mark V?

YuengLinger

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 20, 2012
2,577
679
Southeastern USA
Do you always use the same shadows and highlights compensation values in your final images? If not, EVF cannot be WYSIWYG to you.

And if the brightness level of the scene is much different from the brightness level of the EVF, your eye may be misadapted to the EVF image brightness when it's most needed.

Both of this is even worse with the smartphones, which don't have EVFs to shield the display from the ambient light.
Regarding your second point here, about the eye adapting to the different amount of light displayed within the EVF, yes, this is something to consider, but such cases, which don't come up often for me, underline how great it is to have the tiny, translucent histogram displayed within in the EVF.

Here's how I'm using the EVF for precise exposure. My Picture Style is Standard. I use spot metering. I can either move the spot slightly up and down or side to side on, say, a face, subtly changing the exposure. When I get what looks just right with highlights and shadows, I hit AE Lock with Hold (see user manual pp 555-556). Then I can shoot the composition freely without exposure changing on the subject. I shoot only RAW. When I use the term WhatYouSeeIsWhatYouGet (WYSIWIG), I'm referring to both the image on the back of the camera and what I'm seeing with default Lightroom settings on my desktop monitor.

It did take some experimenting to get the EVF and back-display brightness levels "calibrated," so to speak.
 

docsmith

EOS 6D MK II
Sep 17, 2010
864
240
I can understand the dilemma for those of you that have chosen to straddle the two systems, but I suspect the market that you do not seem to see is those that are choosing to stay with DSLRs as long as possible. It may be for a variety of reasons but I suspect the three most significant are going to be 1) Canon has yet to sufficiently populate the R ecosystem with superior bodies and lenses and people won't want to "straddle" the systems while the EF ecosystem is working for them; 2) preference for OVF over EVF; and 3) they are so invested into the EF lens system they will want natively fitted camera bodies (no converter) for as long as possible before they dump their investment.

I am putting fps and AF speed in the "R ecosystem not populated with superior bodies" categories.

Personally, I am part of all three of those. I am not sure when I will start the transition, but I can tell you I am more tempted by what a 5DV has to offer than I am by the R ecosystem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sporgon

tron

EOS 5D SR
Nov 8, 2011
4,059
359
I too would upgrade to 5DV. 5DIV is a really good body I could live with but of course better is always welcome. A small improvement in lower and higher ISO is always welcome. A slight increase in fps and megapixels is welcome too.
 
Last edited:

Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,347
740
Regarding your second point here, about the eye adapting to the different amount of light displayed within the EVF, yes, this is something to consider, but such cases, which don't come up often for me, underline how great it is to have the tiny, translucent histogram displayed within in the EVF.
In my experience with FZ1000, the histogram helps to alleviate the problem, but clutters the viewfinder.

Here's how I'm using the EVF for precise exposure. My Picture Style is Standard. I use spot metering. I can either move the spot slightly up and down or side to side on, say, a face, subtly changing the exposure. When I get what looks just right with highlights and shadows, I hit AE Lock with Hold (see user manual pp 555-556). Then I can shoot the composition freely without exposure changing on the subject. I shoot only RAW. When I use the term WhatYouSeeIsWhatYouGet (WYSIWIG), I'm referring to both the image on the back of the camera and what I'm seeing with default Lightroom settings on my desktop monitor.
On my main camera (5D2), most of the time I use matrix metering because I know how to trick it into setting the exposures I want; sometimes it involves recomposing for exposure and hitting the star key. When I do need a precise exposure, first I decide where I want to clip out the whites, and I don't see how it can be done fast with an EVF. What I'm seeing with default Lightroom settings is not always what I was planning to see in the final image, but that's usually intentional.
 

YuengLinger

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 20, 2012
2,577
679
Southeastern USA
When I do need a precise exposure, first I decide where I want to clip out the whites, and I don't see how it can be done fast with an EVF.
On the R, it's instant. The exposure changes with very slight movements of the spot-metering circle; the moment I see what I like, I either lock it in with *H or just take the photo. It's that fast.

Again, I do believe this is a key aspect of mirrorless that gets marketing types excited. All the tricks we've learned about dark subject on light background or vise versa, they just aren't needed anymore. I remember how long it took me to get exposures consistently right, and it made me a better photographer, helped me anticipate things. I had to learn math without calculators, and I can still do some pretty cool computational tricks in my head--but that's not how my kids are learning at school. Sigh...
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,901
1,033
119
On the R, it's instant. The exposure changes with very slight movements of the spot-metering circle; the moment I see what I like, I either lock it in with *H or just take the photo. It's that fast.

Again, I do believe this is a key aspect of mirrorless that gets marketing types excited. All the tricks we've learned about dark subject on light background or vise versa, they just aren't needed anymore. I remember how long it took me to get exposures consistently right, and it made me a better photographer, helped me anticipate things. I had to learn math without calculators, and I can still do some pretty cool computational tricks in my head--but that's not how my kids are learning at school. Sigh...
Trouble with the EVF, like the playback, you are seeing a 'jpeg' 8 bit version of a 14 bit file in a 16 bit container (assuming you are shooting RAW), for advanced metering techniques like ETTR where you need to know the true clipping point an EVF is no more useful than a jpeg in playback, ie, you are leaving at least 1 stop of usable detail in the shadows below the noise floor.

For jpeg shooters an EVF is a very nice implementation of WYSIWYG, I found/find the differences between scene luminance and exposure luminance to be a distraction, but, as you say, that isn't how people are learning now. I see more and more photographers, amateurs and pros, using the back screen rather than the EVF/OVF to compose and shoot in a completely different style to the one I am used to and for sure that different style very much has pros and cons to its use.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gwooding

Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,347
740
On the R, it's instant. The exposure changes with very slight movements of the spot-metering circle; the moment I see what I like, I either lock it in with *H or just take the photo. It's that fast.
Unless you see the scene with both eyes (which is hard with long telephotos and/or different brightness levels), you will first need to force the camera to expose to the right (except for Sun/point light sources in the frame), otherwise you don't see what is currently clipped out.

Again, I do believe this is a key aspect of mirrorless that gets marketing types excited. All the tricks we've learned about dark subject on light background or vise versa, they just aren't needed anymore. I remember how long it took me to get exposures consistently right, and it made me a better photographer, helped me anticipate things. I had to learn math without calculators, and I can still do some pretty cool computational tricks in my head--but that's not how my kids are learning at school. Sigh...
Actually, I don't see how it's different from the time of film P&S cameras with lab personnel deciding how to expose the negative on the paper. A camera can only know what the average Joe wants to see on the print. It doesn't know what you want to see on the print.
 

tron

EOS 5D SR
Nov 8, 2011
4,059
359
I am not sure if we must go exactly to the extreme right of the histogram (without clipping of course). I had some cases where all RGB channels were less but very close to 255 and they did not contain useful information at that region. Maybe if we are certain that there is 1 stop more available in highlights than what we see in histogram then we could bracket but with less than +1 stop to be on the safe side. Better 1/3 of a stop less DR than clipping highligjhts (unless the clipped area is very small and unimportant).
 

Joules

EOS RP
Jul 16, 2017
317
236
Hamburg, Germany
for advanced metering techniques like ETTR where you need to know the true clipping point an EVF is no more useful than a jpeg in playback, ie, you are leaving at least 1 stop of usable detail in the shadows below the noise floor.
Are you implying that there is a possibility to do ETTR with a stock Canon DSLR? If so, could please give some more insight into this? With the histogram and LiveView being based on the JPEG instead of RAW output, I had assumed this to be true for all metering options. Is that not the case?
 

jeffa4444

EOS 6D MK II
Feb 28, 2013
1,435
87
65
I have the 5DS as well as the EOS R. Ive a big collection of EF lenses as well as the RF 24-105mm f4L IS USM and the RF 24-240mm f4 - 6.3. The RF lenses are very good but the holy trinity lenses are very expensive with the f2 lenses even more expensive this no doubt has an impact on completely changing your system.
The EOS R is good but has shortcomings, its colour imagery is different at the same settings to the 5DS (which I prefer), the lack of joystick shooting portraits is a down-side but on the up side the metering covers a larger area. Its lighter which is good but annoying they went with the "cheap" option for the remote shutter release.

Right now I would NOT swap out from a DSLR altogether the optical viewfinder has no lag when you shoot like you have with the EOS R, its also easier to lock focus in low light which I often shoot in portraits with strobes and which the EOS R is bad at.
The EOS R with the RF 24-240mm is a great walk-around / travel combo for me that's its true niche but I prefer the 6D MKII for landscape and the 5DS for portraiture. Ive no problem using the EOS R as a second camera when shooting portraits and Ive used it in Landscapes but its not the best product Canon could have produced. So I can see why they would build a 5DV and depending on MP I may buy it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: YuengLinger

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,901
1,033
119
Are you implying that there is a possibility to do ETTR with a stock Canon DSLR? If so, could please give some more insight into this? With the histogram and LiveView being based on the JPEG instead of RAW output, I had assumed this to be true for all metering options. Is that not the case?
Of course it is the case. What I am saying is an EVF might give you WYSIWYG but that isn't necessarily what you actually need or what will get you optimal results, in which case, like when using flash, EVF's can be a distraction.
 

tron

EOS 5D SR
Nov 8, 2011
4,059
359
I believe a moderate increase in Mpixels is the best choice so as to keep (and improve) the already good low and high ISO performance.
 

Antono Refa

EOS 6D MK II
Mar 26, 2014
849
128
Canon could make two very similar 5DmkV and RF mount camera (same sensor, DIGIC, memory slots, JPEG compression, etc), with the few parts that can't be shared (EVF, OVF, mount electronics) shareable with other cameras.

So maybe making both camera has small R&D and manufacturing costs, making it a safe bet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gwooding

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,744
3,071
I believe a moderate increase in Mpixels is the best choice so as to keep (and improve) the already good low and high ISO performance.
And remove the AA-filter so it keeps up with our 5DSRs!
 

Durf

Picture Taker - Image Maker
I planning on getting the 90D next spring and likely the 5DV the following spring and those will be the last 2 camera's I'll ever buy and use (along with my current Pentax K1 for my vintage glass).
These very well may be the last two best DSLR's Canon ever releases. (in their class/series).
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,901
1,033
119
Are you implying that there is a possibility to do ETTR with a stock Canon DSLR? If so, could please give some more insight into this? With the histogram and LiveView being based on the JPEG instead of RAW output, I had assumed this to be true for all metering options. Is that not the case?But of course it is possible to d
But of course it is possible to do ETTR with a stock Canon DSLR, know your metering and generally use +1-1.6 EV compensation, with a DSLR the OVF/scene looks the same, with an EVF the scene looks too bright and the 'blinkies' are distracting.
 
Aug 22, 2010
1,621
317
48
Uk
www.GMCPhotographics.co.uk
As photographers, we can only comment according to our particular shooting needs. I personally shoot a lot of portraits, weddings (which delve into one's general photographic capacity more than one would expect), a lot of landscapes and a bit of wild life. So for me, I run with 3 camera bodies. 2x 5DIII and an old 5DII. The mkII is for wet work / grubby work where I don't mind the camera taking a bit of abuse. The mk3's are my bread and butter cameras. They are so versatile, I can turn them to anything and I always get the shots with them. The resolution is good enough for landscapes, the frame rate is good enough for wild life and Wild Birds in flight.
For me, the next big jump is a pair of mkV's. I have no wish for a 1DX3, it's too big and expensive to have 2 of them. It's not as generalised as a 5D series.
I already have an extensive lens collection, including the fantastic 8-15L, 400mm f2.8 LIS and a TS-e 17L. I also have a 35L and 85IIL primes and 16-35IIL/ 24-70L / 70-200LIS f2.8 trilogy. I have a 100LIS macro and a 135L. So lens wise...there's not a lot more I could wish for other than newer versions of what I already have. There is nothing in the current Rf lens port folio that is tempting me to invest in those lenses, fine as they are. For me, and I can only speak for me, the Rf lens camera bodies are nieve and an immature product. They need a few more generations to make them anywhere near as competent as the current DSLR options.
However, that's today and the Rf mount does offer me some distinct advantages when using fast primes and landscapes.
With an Eos R's EVF, I can see exactly the DOF that I will get on the final shot. I don't like this style of shooting compared to an optical view finder...but functionally....that's a big plus.
The next advantage is that a mirrorless camera has the ability to be truly silent. The 5D range has a very very quiet shutter option that is amazing, but mirrorless has less moving parts and can in theory but truly silent.
The last option is the ability to use EF lenses with a filtered adapter. Lenses like the 8-15L fisheye ot TS-e 17L can be used with a 9 stop ND filter on a tripod and record water / cloud movement that I might not be able to achieve without filtration.
So for me, I will end up with a Rf mount camera at some point. But only to supplement my current DSLR cameras and EF lens portfolio. That Rf camera needs to be a mature product too. The current Rp and Eos R are pale versions of a 6D and 5D4.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Durf

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
990
484
With an Eos R's EVF, I can see exactly the DOF that I will get on the final shot.
Well, sort of. As long as the angular size of the displayed image is the same as the angular size of the EVF when you are looking in the viewfinder, you will, within the limits of the EVF's resolution.

But if you take the exact same image file and display them side by side at different sizes and view both from the same distance, they will have different DoF. The larger display size will have shallower DoF, and the smaller display size will have deeper DoF.